This not apportioning blame just a comment, I think Jazz is too right footed to be a left back. I did not think he handled the ball as it was ball to arm rather than arm to ball. Even allowing for the sending off we were second best for most of the game.
Predictions for today. Swansea v West ham.
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Utter garbage, Carole hasn't scored in over 270 minutes of Premier league football, and you won't get another team giving the lump of lard so much space again, dream on!............................
Well, as a hammer I'd have a fit Carroll in my team every time, his goal tally might not be overwhelming but his contribution is far more, he took you lot to the cleaners today. As to the sending off, bit harsh but it looked like he went for Sakho rather than the ball with his body-check, and looks like the Ref missed 2 handball decisions, cos if he has to give one he has to give the other.
No he doesn't!
Were they deliberate? (like the deliberate hand ball in the sending off?)
The shove in Sakho's back put him off balance and caused the handball.
Red card all day long. Not that it would have mattered as we would have won anyway.
HTH.
Red card all day long. Not that it would have mattered as we would have won anyway.
HTH.
Lads we were beaten by a better team on the day.WHU wanted it more,they did not allow us to settle on the ball,their passing was sharper.It could have been more.But there you go.Regroup,sort it out and bring on the Spurs next weekend.
Edit.......Still trying to figure out why Fab had to be out that far?
Answers on a postcard to......
Edit.......Still trying to figure out why Fab had to be out that far?
Answers on a postcard to......
On Fab's situation - it was a cluster ****. Fab didn't need to make that move. Our defender was weak on the play, which probably lead to Fab's over reaction (indicates to me a lack of confidence in what he was seeing in front him all game and that he didn't expect the defender to recover). Ref totally missed the handball, and then called a foul against Fab which IMO wasn't a foul, then over reacted with the card.
A game killing sequence if ever there was one.
A game killing sequence if ever there was one.
Stan Collymore on TalkSport was going troppo and blaming all the goals on Ash and his shocking positioning.
I only managed to see the first half and WHU were their usual self getting stuck in a bullying us around. Still wouldn't want to watch their long ball football every week though.
I only managed to see the first half and WHU were their usual self getting stuck in a bullying us around. Still wouldn't want to watch their long ball football every week though.
This game was a repeat of many this season,where the homer ref gives endless free kicks for innocuous fouls until the opposition scores.
I agree that West Ham were the better team on the day,but our defending was woeful and Carroll was virtually unmarked for the goals and assist.
We are often not capable of holding a lead,and to me the full back positions and defensive midfield are our weakness,and we were cruelly exposed yesterday. Routledge couldn't keep hold of the ball nor pass it accurately all game,yet stayed on the pitch,and Montero was poor at tracking back to cover Jazz.
The subs were too late and baffling,Tremmel/Britton 71 mins,Gomis/Montero 75 mins. Dyer/Rangel 86 mins,especially,as Sakho ran straight through our defence to score on 87 mins,with two defenders missing and down to ten men what did we expect? Carroll was unmarked for the first goal,and how did our worst defender in the air,Rangel,end up marking Carroll for the second headed goal,with Bartley just watching on,zonal marking? We were losing it in midfield but Shelvey remained on the bench?
Yet it could have been so different if Bony's shot had been a few inches lower on 59 mins instead of hitting the crossbar,we would then have been in the ascendancy again. Gomis was a passenger when he came on and did not win one aerial challenge. Our players came over to clap the supporters at the end,but by that time half of them had left the stadium.
I agree that West Ham were the better team on the day,but our defending was woeful and Carroll was virtually unmarked for the goals and assist.
We are often not capable of holding a lead,and to me the full back positions and defensive midfield are our weakness,and we were cruelly exposed yesterday. Routledge couldn't keep hold of the ball nor pass it accurately all game,yet stayed on the pitch,and Montero was poor at tracking back to cover Jazz.
The subs were too late and baffling,Tremmel/Britton 71 mins,Gomis/Montero 75 mins. Dyer/Rangel 86 mins,especially,as Sakho ran straight through our defence to score on 87 mins,with two defenders missing and down to ten men what did we expect? Carroll was unmarked for the first goal,and how did our worst defender in the air,Rangel,end up marking Carroll for the second headed goal,with Bartley just watching on,zonal marking? We were losing it in midfield but Shelvey remained on the bench?
Yet it could have been so different if Bony's shot had been a few inches lower on 59 mins instead of hitting the crossbar,we would then have been in the ascendancy again. Gomis was a passenger when he came on and did not win one aerial challenge. Our players came over to clap the supporters at the end,but by that time half of them had left the stadium.
He took Rangel off because we were behind and needed to attack and he was not having a good game. Routs was told to play deeper as a wing back on the right hand side, but we never made much use of Dyer and his speed. The third goal was conceded down the left center, where Ash was beaten by the flight of the ball and Jazz was not able to cover back inside in time.
Taking Britton off made sense - why leave the shortest player on the field when the ball is being won and lost in the air.
Gomis does not impress me at all. I'm glad we got him on a free otherwise we would have wasted our money. For a big lad he's a fraction of Bony and not really much competition for a starting position.
West ham are not necessarily a better team just much better at executing their game plan yesterday. They didn't allow us to settle into our style at all.
Taking Britton off made sense - why leave the shortest player on the field when the ball is being won and lost in the air.
Gomis does not impress me at all. I'm glad we got him on a free otherwise we would have wasted our money. For a big lad he's a fraction of Bony and not really much competition for a starting position.
West ham are not necessarily a better team just much better at executing their game plan yesterday. They didn't allow us to settle into our style at all.
'Going Troppo' is an exclusively Australian slang term for 'going crazy'.
Or apoplectic with rage.
OH MY GOD !!! No way ever was that handball against Jazz !!! His arm was at his side. I'm becoming disillusioned with all these decisions, and even considering that Jazz handled the ball intentionally makes me question reality !
Football is being ruined by this mentality that it's handball just because the ball happened to hit someone on the arm even though they could do nothing about it. Coupled with so many games being decided by ridiculous decisions from the ref and players falling over because someone whispered near them - I've had a bloody gutsful of it.
Football is being ruined by this mentality that it's handball just because the ball happened to hit someone on the arm even though they could do nothing about it. Coupled with so many games being decided by ridiculous decisions from the ref and players falling over because someone whispered near them - I've had a bloody gutsful of it.
That was a horrible, horrible game to watch. Finally had a chance to sit down over lunch and write down my thoughts.
To be honest, up until Carroll's unbelievably good header from an equally unbelievably good cross (off Jenkinson's foot, that was heading straight into the stands, and it's curved round an unbelievable amount), West Ham had had plenty of ball, but we were the more dangerous. Bony had a chance to make it 2-0 and Sigurdsson had a chance parried away straight in between Bony and Routledge, if the angle of the save had been slightly different, either would have had a tap in! We were playing classic away team football. Absorb, not give anything easy, and then pounce.
But then Carroll scored from seemingly nothing. Bartley should have been man-marking him inside the box all game. Ash can't jump or compete with him (highlighted by the second goal), and neither could Rangel. So why was Williams marking Carroll from a corner? And why was Rangel left one-on-one in the air with Carroll? Additionally, why are Bony and Britton both marking the front post for their second goal? They didn't duff a corner to the front post all game, everything was looped to middle of the goal/back post for their big boys. Bony was in the right position, but Britton should have been on the post. You have to have people on the posts against West Ham. We paid for that, so I blame Monk for the second goal as he will have set up that defensive shape in training.
I got more and more frustrated during the second half that Monk wasn't doing anything. He had to change things. I'm getting sick of seeing Monk wait for bad things to happen to make changes, you must make changes to stop the bad stuff before it happens! West Ham were all over us and we were getting deeper and deeper. Montero should never have come off as, when he had the ball, he had the better of Jenkinson. Routledge was poor all game. My subs would have been:
1. Tiendalli for Rangel at 55 minutes - Jazz to RB and Tiendalli on at LB. Rangel had to come off. He wasn't getting roasted by a winger, but he constantly gave the ball away. He lost his bottle and whenever he was pressed, he gave it to them.
2. Dyer for Routledge at 60 minutes - Routledge was also having a shocker. The right hand side of our team was haemorrhaging possession and how Monk didn't see it and sort it is mind-boggling.
3. Shelvey for Sigurdsson at 70 minutes - Sigurdsson visibly tired later in the game, and I think Shelvey would have been a good option for the last 20 minutes further up field to get some energy back into our attack.
I'm disappointed that Monk basically showed me that he's not learning that quickly. You can't put your starting 11 out and expect them to eventually come good during the game. If it's not working or if players are playing poorly, you have to make changes to rectify the situation. Monk didn't do that yesterday. We didn't have a consistent plan for taking care of Carroll, and as a result, Carroll was able to find his own space without too much trouble. We should have been working out a specific routine for dealing with Carroll in the build up to the game, but it seemed that different people ended up marking Carroll at different times. We were using trial and error in the heat of battle and paid for it.
Anyway - this game isn't the make or break of our season! I wanted 7 points from 5 games starting with West Ham up until the half way stage of the season, so 2 wins against Villa and Hull and a draw against either Liverpool and Tottenham and it will still have been an incredibly good opening half of the season.
To be honest, up until Carroll's unbelievably good header from an equally unbelievably good cross (off Jenkinson's foot, that was heading straight into the stands, and it's curved round an unbelievable amount), West Ham had had plenty of ball, but we were the more dangerous. Bony had a chance to make it 2-0 and Sigurdsson had a chance parried away straight in between Bony and Routledge, if the angle of the save had been slightly different, either would have had a tap in! We were playing classic away team football. Absorb, not give anything easy, and then pounce.
But then Carroll scored from seemingly nothing. Bartley should have been man-marking him inside the box all game. Ash can't jump or compete with him (highlighted by the second goal), and neither could Rangel. So why was Williams marking Carroll from a corner? And why was Rangel left one-on-one in the air with Carroll? Additionally, why are Bony and Britton both marking the front post for their second goal? They didn't duff a corner to the front post all game, everything was looped to middle of the goal/back post for their big boys. Bony was in the right position, but Britton should have been on the post. You have to have people on the posts against West Ham. We paid for that, so I blame Monk for the second goal as he will have set up that defensive shape in training.
I got more and more frustrated during the second half that Monk wasn't doing anything. He had to change things. I'm getting sick of seeing Monk wait for bad things to happen to make changes, you must make changes to stop the bad stuff before it happens! West Ham were all over us and we were getting deeper and deeper. Montero should never have come off as, when he had the ball, he had the better of Jenkinson. Routledge was poor all game. My subs would have been:
1. Tiendalli for Rangel at 55 minutes - Jazz to RB and Tiendalli on at LB. Rangel had to come off. He wasn't getting roasted by a winger, but he constantly gave the ball away. He lost his bottle and whenever he was pressed, he gave it to them.
2. Dyer for Routledge at 60 minutes - Routledge was also having a shocker. The right hand side of our team was haemorrhaging possession and how Monk didn't see it and sort it is mind-boggling.
3. Shelvey for Sigurdsson at 70 minutes - Sigurdsson visibly tired later in the game, and I think Shelvey would have been a good option for the last 20 minutes further up field to get some energy back into our attack.
I'm disappointed that Monk basically showed me that he's not learning that quickly. You can't put your starting 11 out and expect them to eventually come good during the game. If it's not working or if players are playing poorly, you have to make changes to rectify the situation. Monk didn't do that yesterday. We didn't have a consistent plan for taking care of Carroll, and as a result, Carroll was able to find his own space without too much trouble. We should have been working out a specific routine for dealing with Carroll in the build up to the game, but it seemed that different people ended up marking Carroll at different times. We were using trial and error in the heat of battle and paid for it.
Anyway - this game isn't the make or break of our season! I wanted 7 points from 5 games starting with West Ham up until the half way stage of the season, so 2 wins against Villa and Hull and a draw against either Liverpool and Tottenham and it will still have been an incredibly good opening half of the season.
Leon should never have played he was too weak for the taller more powerful west ham players, Ki would have done a better job and as for carroll v Bony then there was only one winner and that was carroll all the way. He has more about him than bony and looked more of a threat. ..Leon to the bench now and play him in the cup games if we draw a minnow or Ki has to play every time..
What is it with the Swans and things "religious" - first it was Moses and now it is "Carroll" and "Psalm" Allardyce........
could have been, it looked like his arm moved more towards the ball than away from it, but you got away with it, so what's your complaint?
But Bony doesn't roll on the floor as if someone had just shoved a cactus up his arse neither. If a player of ours cheats etc I'll call it as I see it. There's no need for the theatrical bullshit imo.
I agree with you, but in fairness that's all you have talked about in this thread RE: Chico and his rolling around, you haven't even acknowledged how good he was when not rolling around on the floor
You just said you were glad we got rid of him, which is harsh IMO. He was our best CB when not on the floor.This^ except that Rangel and Routledge were so poor they should have been brought off at half time