Pardew given a reprieve...

[Freddd]

Bumped as a result of Boro Gully's post on the Pardew thread.

 

[Graham Carr's Binoculars]

Bumped as a result of Boro Gully's post on the Pardew thread.

It's not as simple as this though, because with Dummett, Abeid, Aarons & Perez we actually have a lot more depth than anyone realised.

Nobody was mentioning them as being anywhere near our first 11 in the summer, now I think they'd all be in most peoples strongest 11 meaning our squad is considerably stronger than anyone thought back when the window closed.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

It's not as simple as this though, because with Dummett, Abeid, Aarons & Perez we actually have a lot more depth than anyone realised.

Nobody was mentioning them as being anywhere near our first 11 in the summer, now I think they'd all be in most peoples strongest 11 meaning our squad is considerably stronger than anyone thought back when the window closed.

It changes nothing. We are still a lower half of the table squad on paper.

 

[Graham Carr's Binoculars]

It changes nothing. We are still a lower half of the table squad on paper.

Not a chance.

Villa, Leicester, QPR, Burnley, West Brom, Stoke, Sunderland, Palace, Hull.

Nine teams where we clearly have a stronger squad, you then have Swansea and West Ham who I also think we're stronger than.

How can four players which would now be in 90% of fans first 11 change nothing? It means the first 11 has improved in over a third of the positions.

 

[Freddd]

It's not as simple as this though, because with Dummett, Abeid, Aarons & Perez we actually have a lot more depth than anyone realised.

Nobody was mentioning them as being anywhere near our first 11 in the summer, now I think they'd all be in most peoples strongest 11 meaning our squad is considerably stronger than anyone thought back when the window closed.

Do I understand you to be of the opinion that our manager should receive no credit for the fact our young squad players have developed, contrary to all expectations, into strong players ? Or for having the courage to play them ?

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Not a chance.

Villa, Leicester, QPR, Burnley, West Brom, Stoke, Sunderland, Palace, Hull.

Nine teams where we clearly have a stronger squad, you then have Swansea and West Ham who I also think we're stronger than.

How can four players which would now be in 90% of fans first 11 change nothing? It means the first 11 has improved in over a third of the positions.

All about opinions, you clearly rate our players a lot higher than I do.

One thing I do know for certain is, West Ham have a far stronger squad than ours. They have two in every position, loads of firepower. To be honest I don't think its even close. I think we are much of a muchness with many of those clubs mentioned. Sunderland, Stoke, West Brom, Hull, QPR, Villa - all a similar sort of stamp to us. Many of them have better balance to their squad, many have more players used to this league. Considering how many new faces we have had to blood, many who are coming from a completely different style of football, and considering our injury problems, we are performing way above expectations for me.

We seem to have developed this habit of thinking we have better players. Many of these clubs have international footballers. Not B or C internationals like many of ours, but fully fledged internationals. We don't respect the rest of the league enough and get doe eyed about who we sign.

The deth in terms of the young players is because they have been blooded by Pardew. That is not something to hold against him, but actually credit him.

 

[Graham Carr's Binoculars]

Do I understand you to be of the opinion that our manager should receive no credit for the fact our young squad players have developed, contrary to all expectations, into strong players ? Or for having the courage to play them ?

I've not, not given him credit.

He deserves credit for Aarons, Perez and Dummett but Abeid was pure luck. He was shipped out on loan last season, Pardew wanted him gone but it's a well known fact the greeks couldn't cough up what the club were asking for. An injury crisis then presented Abeid with his chance, a chance that he's duly taken.

It doesn't hide the fact our squad is stronger than we all thought it was back in September.

 

[Graham Carr's Binoculars]

All about opinions, you clearly rate our players a lot higher than I do.

One thing I do know for certain is, West Ham have a far stronger squad than ours. They have two in every position, loads of firepower. To be honest I don't think its even close. I think we are much of a muchness with many of those clubs mentioned. Sunderland, Stoke, West Brom, Hull, QPR, Villa - all a similar sort of stamp to us. Many of them have better balance to their squad, many have more players used to this league. Considering how many new faces we have had to blood, many who are coming from a completely different style of football, and considering our injury problems, we are performing way above expectations for me.

We seem to have developed this habit of thinking we have better players. Many of these clubs have international footballers. Not B or C internationals like many of ours, but fully fledged internationals. We don't respect the rest of the league enough and get doe eyed about who we sign.

The deth in terms of the young players is because they have been blooded by Pardew. That is not something to hold against him, but actually credit him.

We pretty much have two in every position:

GK: Krul (we're short)
RB: Janmaat, Raylor
LB: Santon, Haidara
CB: Colo, Willo, Saylor, Dummett
LM: Sammy, Aarons
RM: Cabella, Gouffran
CM: Jack, Sissoko, Tiote, Abeid, Anita
CF: Cisse, Rivierre, Perez, Armstrong (one short)

So we're short of a keeper and a striker but given Pardew keeps saying he believes Armstrong to be the best of the lot when it comes to the kids it could be argued we're only short of a decent back up keeper in terms of having two solid players for each position.

EDIT: Missed out De Jong too. Can add him to the CM or CF list.

 

[Freddd]

I've not, not given him credit.

He deserves credit for Aarons, Perez and Dummett but Abeid was pure luck. He was shipped out on loan last season, Pardew wanted him gone but it's a well known fact the greeks couldn't cough up what the club were asking for. An injury crisis then presented Abeid with his chance, a chance that he's duly taken.

It doesn't hide the fact our squad is stronger than we all thought it was back in September.

Okay, so what is your central theme ?

I had understood your "Pardew" thread to be critical of him. Did I get that wrong ?

If you are critical, of what are you critical ?

He is, in your view, largely responsible for the fact that the squad is stronger than we had thought. He has obtained the overall position in the table that the strength of our squad warrants. In short, he has done well in developing ability and adequately in utilising that ability. What (if there is one) is the complaint ?

 

[Pulp]

We pretty much have two in every position:

GK: Krul (we're short)
RB: Janmaat, Raylor
LB: Santon, Haidara
CB: Colo, Willo, Saylor, Dummett
LM: Sammy, Aarons
RM: Cabella, Gouffran
CM: Jack, Sissoko, Tiote, Abeid, Anita
CF: Cisse, Rivierre, Perez, Armstrong (one short)

So we're short of a keeper and a striker but given Pardew keeps saying he believes Armstrong to be the best of the lot when it comes to the kids it could be argued we're only short of a decent back up keeper in terms of having two solid players for each position.

EDIT: Missed out De Jong too. Can add him to the CM or CF list.

You've also forgotten Obertan who was one of our better players before he got injured.

 

[Freddd]

You've also forgotten Obertan who was one of our better players before he got injured.

for whom I would also give Pardew significant credit.

 

[Beardsley's Rancid Sack]

for whom I would also give Pardew significant credit.

The thing is with Obertan he has had 4 or 5 good games in what, three years? Excuse me for not jumping on the wagon and proclaiming how amazing he now is. We seem to have done ok without him anyway.

 

[Graham Carr's Binoculars]

Okay, so what is your central theme ?

I had understood your "Pardew" thread to be critical of him. Did I get that wrong ?

If you are critical, of what are you critical ?

He is, in your view, largely responsible for the fact that the squad is stronger than we had thought. He has obtained the overall position in the table that the strength of our squad warrants. In short, he has done well in developing ability and adequately in utilising that ability. What (if there is one) is the complaint ?

Why are we lining up with the same formation and game plan against Burnley, Leicester etc as we are against Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. Man Utd don't line up the same way against Barcelona as they do against West Brom. We have zero variation under him.

As much as we've looked organised in the 6 game winning run, and the players have given 100% in each game, we haven't played great football, we haven't be entertaining. If we're honest the 1-0 wins against QPR, Leicester and Liverpool could quite easily have gone the other way (as could the defeat at West Ham admittedly).

He bleats on and on about setting his teams up to attack but it's a lie, a myth. Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. Any manager that has the same game plan for Burnley as they do for Chelsea is a one trick pony and will get found out eventually.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

We pretty much have two in every position:

GK: Krul (we're short)
RB: Janmaat, Raylor
LB: Santon, Haidara
CB: Colo, Willo, Saylor, Dummett
LM: Sammy, Aarons
RM: Cabella, Gouffran
CM: Jack, Sissoko, Tiote, Abeid, Anita
CF: Cisse, Rivierre, Perez, Armstrong (one short)

So we're short of a keeper and a striker but given Pardew keeps saying he believes Armstrong to be the best of the lot when it comes to the kids it could be argued we're only short of a decent back up keeper in terms of having two solid players for each position.

EDIT: Missed out De Jong too. Can add him to the CM or CF list.

I can't have Raylor counting. It was doubted he would play again. He has played a couple of games and is knacked. You have to consider fragility in the strength of a squad. We buy injury prone players or retain them. Raylor, SDJ, Saylor, Santon all have a strong history of injury problems. Add in Colo is fairly fragile, Tiote is a regular for missing games - we are reaping what we have sowed to an extent. The gulf between ours and West Ham's forward line is monumental. They have Valencia, Carroll, Sakho, Zarate, Cole, Vaz Te. Four of those guys are arguably better than our best striker nevermind the others!

Goalkeepers
13 Adrián 22 Jääskeläinen
Defenders
2 Reid 3 Cresswell 5 Tomkins 17 O'Brien 18 Jenkinson 19 Collins 20 Demel 32 Burke 33 Potts 35 Oxford 37 Page
Midfielders
4 Nolan 7 Jarvis 8 Kouyaté 11 Downing 14 Morrison 16 Noble 21 Amalfitano 30 Song 41 Lletget
Forwards
9 Carroll 10 Zárate 12 Vaz Te 15 Sakho 24 Cole 31 E Valencia

I think that is at least our equal in all areas, and just light years ahead up top.

As for Abeid, not sure where you get luck from. Pardew sent him on loan to develop and improve, he has done. He never said he wanted rid. Yes the likes of the Chronicle reported that in June but lets not forget this:

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/sport...ck-into-pardew-s-plans-at-newcastle-1-6469997
http://www.shieldsgazette.com/sport...closing-in-on-newcastle-united-role-1-6801598

Sorry but I can't read that any other way than Pardew doing right by the lad and looking after him. He is what he is today because of how Pardew has handled him. He got him a great loan move, he kept an eye on him and then gave him another chance.

 

[Graham Carr's Binoculars]

I can't have Raylor counting. It was doubted he would play again. He has played a couple of games and is knacked. You have to consider fragility in the strength of a squad. We buy injury prone players or retain them. Raylor, SDJ, Saylor, Santon all have a strong history of injury problems. Add in Colo is fairly fragile, Tiote is a regular for missing games - we are reaping what we have sowed to an extent. The gulf between ours and West Ham's forward line is monumental. They have Valencia, Carroll, Sakho, Zarate, Cole, Vaz Te. Four of those guys are arguably better than our best striker nevermind the others!

Goalkeepers
13 Adrián 22 Jääskeläinen
Defenders
2 Reid 3 Cresswell 5 Tomkins 17 O'Brien 18 Jenkinson 19 Collins 20 Demel 32 Burke 33 Potts 35 Oxford 37 Page
Midfielders
4 Nolan 7 Jarvis 8 Kouyaté 11 Downing 14 Morrison 16 Noble 21 Amalfitano 30 Song 41 Lletget
Forwards
9 Carroll 10 Zárate 12 Vaz Te 15 Sakho 24 Cole 31 E Valencia

I think that is at least our equal in all areas, and just light years ahead up top.

As for Abeid, not sure where you get luck from. Pardew sent him on loan to develop and improve, he has done. He never said he wanted rid. Yes the likes of the Chronicle reported that in June but lets not forget this:

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/sport...ck-into-pardew-s-plans-at-newcastle-1-6469997
http://www.shieldsgazette.com/sport...closing-in-on-newcastle-united-role-1-6801598

Sorry but I can't read that any other way than Pardew doing right by the lad and looking after him. He is what he is today because of how Pardew has handled him. He got him a great loan move, he kept an eye on him and then gave him another chance.

Joey O'Brien, Demel are terrible. Tomkins is poor and Burke, Potts, Oxford and Page probably have less than 6 appearances between them and are all unproven kids.. There is no depth in their defence at all. Morrison is a waster, think he might even be out on loan somewhere in the championship, has Lletget made an apperance?? Song isn't even their player.

We have much better options in midfield and defence, they're stronger up top.

 

[Freddd]

Why are we lining up with the same formation and game plan against Burnley, Leicester etc as we are against Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea etc. Man Utd don't line up the same way against Barcelona as they do against West Brom. We have zero variation under him.

As much as we've looked organised in the 6 game winning run, and the players have given 100% in each game, we haven't played great football, we haven't be entertaining. If we're honest the 1-0 wins against QPR, Leicester and Liverpool could quite easily have gone the other way (as could the defeat at West Ham admittedly).

He bleats on and on about setting his teams up to attack but it's a lie, a myth. Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. Any manager that has the same game plan for Burnley as they do for Chelsea is a one trick pony and will get found out eventually.

So basically he's a bit ordinary and unexciting ?

Fair point as far as it goes.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Joey O'Brien, Demel are terrible. Tomkins is poor and Burke, Potts, Oxford and Page probably have less than 6 appearances between them and are all unproven kids.. There is no depth in their defence at all. Morrison is a waster, think he might even be out on loan somewhere in the championship, has Lletget made an apperance?? Song isn't even their player.

We have much better options in midfield and defence, they're stronger up top.

Reid, Tomkins, Collins vs Colo, Saylor, Willo pretty tight for me. Plus they have additional cover in Kouyate and Song. Cresswell vs any of our 24 left backs. Again pretty tight. We have more cover there. Right back. Janmaat is better than Jenkinson but he is no mug. They obviously have better cover there. Demel has done ok for them.

Overall in balance and depth not much in it. You could argue we shade it but as far as first choice goes Janmaat, Santon, Colo, Saylor against Jenkinson, Reid, Collins, Cresswell - that is pretty close.

Midfield - Best 3 against their best 3. Song, Kouyate, Downing vs Tiote, De Jong, Sissoko pretty darn close again. They have Nolan, Noble and Amalfitano to back up, we have Colback, Abeid and Anita. So again pretty close but they probably shade it there, we perhaps having a worse balance to our back up. They play more like three up top than we do. So wide our best options would be maybe Cabella and Aarons against Zarate and Sakho. Nowt in it but I'm a big Aarons fan so we shade it. Back up we have Sammy, Gouffran and Obertan vs Jarvis, Vaz Te so we shade it there.

Overall nowt much in it. We have numbers but no great depth of quality.

Strikers - Carroll, Sakho, Valencia vs Perez, Riviere, Cisse, Ferrarya, Armstrong. Their additional options come from the two wide men so I haven't included. I'd rather have those three against our 5 anyway.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Just looking at Hull's squad, now there's an under-performing squad:

Goalkeepers
1 McGregor 16 Jakupovic 22 Harper 35 Watson
Defenders
2 Rosenior 4 Bruce 5 Chester 6 Davies 12 Maguire 15 McShane 21 Dawson 26 Robertson 31 Lenihan
Midfielders
7 Meyler 8 Huddlestone 10 Snodgrass 11 Brady 14 Livermore 17 Diamé 25 Ramírez 27 Elmohamady 29 Quinn 34 Ben Arfa
Forwards
9 Hernández 18 Jelavic 20 Sagbo 24 Aluko

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

QPR too:

Goalkeepers
1 Green 12 McCarthy 21 Murphy
Defenders
3 Traore 4 Caulker 5 Ferdinand 6 Hill 13 Yun Suk-young 14 Isla 15 Onuoha 22 Dunne
Midfielders
7 Phillips 8 Barton 10 Fer 11 Wright-Phillips 16 Jenas 17 Mutch 18 Faurlin 19 Kranjcar 20 Henry 23 Hoilett 27 Taarabt 30 Sandro
Forwards
9 Austin 24 Vargas 25 Zamora

 

[Rafa's Championship Party]

QPR too:

Goalkeepers
1 Green 12 McCarthy 21 Murphy
Defenders
3 Traore 4 Caulker 5 Ferdinand 6 Hill 13 Yun Suk-young 14 Isla 15 Onuoha 22 Dunne
Midfielders
7 Phillips 8 Barton 10 Fer 11 Wright-Phillips 16 Jenas 17 Mutch 18 Faurlin 19 Kranjcar 20 Henry 23 Hoilett 27 Taarabt 30 Sandro
Forwards
9 Austin 24 Vargas 25 Zamora

QPR guilty of signing players past it for effect. Been guilty of this ever since they got promoted to the Premier League back in 2011.