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sb_73

sb_73

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2012
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Not wishing to start a fight but 3 things jumped out at me from the news this morning:

- Sinn Fein are, according to polls, the most popular party in Ireland, on a leftish anti-austerity ticket. What's going on Irish R's? (I don't really have an opinion on this, just curious).

- Labour are having a go at public/private schools, saying they should 'help out' the state sector. Policy announced by an ex public schoolboy, threatening to take away their charitable status if they don't comply. Surely they should be trying to improve the state sector rather than going cap in hand to the private sector (which is by its own admission pricing itself out of the UK market anyway, fees set on what oligarchs can afford - good for the balance of payments!). Their tax status is a joke, but they ain't the answer to improving state education, which, if it was good, would lead to the majority of private schools going out of business. Populist politics, the easy way out.

- the one that made my blood boil was the Pope having a go a Europe at the EU parliament. This unelected Argentinian, with unexplained links to the former fascist regime in his home country, unelected head of an organisation built on ignorance and fear and responsible for centuries of suffering, has a f**ing nerve. The EU has many problems which need sorting, but compared to the Catholic Church? And it wasn't just the EU he was having a go at, it was Europe.
 
sb_73 said:
Sinn Fein are, according to polls, the most popular party in Ireland, on a leftish anti-austerity ticket. What's going on Irish R's? (I don't really have an opinion on this, just curious).
Click to expand...

You pretty much answered your own question there Stan. "Anti-austerity". People have had enough of it. They're down to the bare bones. Wouldn't pay too much heed to the polls though. They never translate into votes for SF, at least not to the same level. Its proportional representation here and they don't get any transfers.
 
Cheers lads. Presumably they still have a united Ireland as part of their core principles (by peaceful, democratic means of course) is that a vote winner in the Republic? Just struck me that, for all I know, all Irish political parties may have this as an aspiration.
 
Morning Stan....

Yep it's certainly a worry over here about the rise in popularity of Sein Fein, unfortunately it is really down to the performance of the ruling Finna Gael/Labour coalition. Like the UK they come into power at the last election due to the previous Finna Fail administration basically bankrupting the country and having to go cap in hand to the EU for handouts. Finna Gael promised to be totally transparent and whiter than white, but they have turned out to be no better than the previous administration and have brought cronyism to new heights. They have also introduced a whole range of stealth taxes as part of the austerity programme whilst cutting tax credits so much so that anyone earning over €630 per week will be paying effectively 52% tax. We have a vat rate of 23% that has to be charged by businesses earning over €37000 per annum, compared to the UK where a business doesn't have to register for vat until turnover is in excess of £70k....we are becoming uncompetative.

We have had the introduction of Property Tax, Water Tax, a raid on Private Pension funds of 0.75% of the fund value per annum, banks not lendind to small businesses, house buyers now have to find a 20% deposit before being eligible to apply for a mortgage etc etc.

It is no wonder that Sein Fein are rising in popularity because they are bandwagon jumpers, they will promise whatever the people want to hear. We also have a band of Independent TD's who are also causing unrest over the latest water charges saga, yet amongst them is the owner of a company that deliberately evaded paying €2.5m vat and was prosecuted by the Revenue, yet still remains as a TD......you couldn't make it up.

All in all we are in worrying times as we could shortly have Gerry Adams as Prime Minister and that doesn't bear thinking about.....
 
A couple of figures from our national debt clock.

Current debt €204.7 bn

Citizen's share €44,574

Interest per year €9.7 bn

Jnterest per second €310

Population 4,591,087

Debt as % of GDP 113.87%

You could wrap $1 bills around the earth 990 times with the debt amount!

Sinn Fein have flirted with adopting a position on defaulting on the debt, explains some of their popularity!
 
This is a useful website if you are trying to acquire clinical depression:

http://http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

You can find out the depth of **** every country is in and how obese you are! I notice Germany's clock is ticking over at about a quarter of the speed of everyone else's.
 
sb_73 said:
This is a useful website if you are trying to acquire clinical depression:

http://http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

You can find out the depth of **** every country is in and how obese you are! I notice Germany's clock is ticking over at about a quarter of the speed of everyone else's.
Click to expand...

That's just a world cup win feel-good factor - it'll wear off.

I still find it all a bit baffling. On the assumption that every country has a net debt, who is the money owed to? If it's the world bank then surely they're nothing more than a ledger for borrowings to buy real commodities (oil, food etc) and the true money should be owed to those producers of said commodities (thus reducing reducing the net deb to zero). Have the World bank shoe-horned their way into the frame and then laud their wealth over everyone as they skim off the interest they impose? I wouldn't be surprised to see that it's all run by Kia Joorabchian (isn't that the bum-flaunting one?). Is there any way all countries can unite and consolidate their borrowings into one affordable monthly repayment?

Please help to drag me out of my corner of ignorance.
 
sb_73 said:
Not wishing to start a fight but 3 things jumped out at me from the news this morning:

- the one that made my blood boil was the Pope having a go a Europe at the EU parliament. This unelected Argentinian, with unexplained links to the former fascist regime in his home country, unelected head of an organisation built on ignorance and fear and responsible for centuries of suffering, has a f**ing nerve. The EU has many problems which need sorting, but compared to the Catholic Church? And it wasn't just the EU he was having a go at, it was Europe.
Click to expand...

I recall wee Gerry's latter day big chum Ian Paisley giving the previous Pope a warm welcome at the European Parliament - just as the applause died down and His Holiness was going to speak, Lord Bannside jumped up and screamed at him that he was the "Antichrist". I think it took about 15 MEPs to shut him up. The BBC News report I also recall reported it from a sort of superior, comical angle rather than outrage. As if they regarded both Paisley and the Pope as a pair of religious clowns. Must have been a few years ago now.
 
sb_73 said:
Not wishing to start a fight but 3 things jumped out at me from the news this morning:

- Sinn Fein are, according to polls, the most popular party in Ireland, on a leftish anti-austerity ticket. What's going on Irish R's? (I don't really have an opinion on this, just curious).

- Labour are having a go at public/private schools, saying they should 'help out' the state sector. Policy announced by an ex public schoolboy, threatening to take away their charitable status if they don't comply. Surely they should be trying to improve the state sector rather than going cap in hand to the private sector (which is by its own admission pricing itself out of the UK market anyway, fees set on what oligarchs can afford - good for the balance of payments!). Their tax status is a joke, but they ain't the answer to improving state education, which, if it was good, would lead to the majority of private schools going out of business. Populist politics, the easy way out.

- the one that made my blood boil was the Pope having a go a Europe at the EU parliament. This unelected Argentinian, with unexplained links to the former fascist regime in his home country, unelected head of an organisation built on ignorance and fear and responsible for centuries of suffering, has a f**ing nerve. The EU has many problems which need sorting, but compared to the Catholic Church? And it wasn't just the EU he was having a go at, it was Europe.
Click to expand...

Regarding the schools, I think that it should only be the fees received from overseas students that get any kind of levy. The rest is just educating children that have a right by citizenship to be educated (whether paid for independently or via state funding).

That said, I'm a bit unsure if the figures (in either the Labour proposed scenario or my one) stack up to enough money to make a significant impact on the national education budget?
 
KooPeeArr said:
That's just a world cup win feel-good factor - it'll wear off.

I still find it all a bit baffling. On the assumption that every country has a net debt, who is the money owed to? If it's the world bank then surely they're nothing more than a ledger for borrowings to buy real commodities (oil, food etc) and the true money should be owed to those producers of said commodities (thus reducing reducing the net deb to zero). Have the World bank shoe-horned their way into the frame and then laud their wealth over everyone as they skim off the interest they impose? I wouldn't be surprised to see that it's all run by Kia Joorabchian (isn't that the bum-flaunting one?). Is there any way all countries can unite and consolidate their borrowings into one affordable monthly repayment?

Please help to drag me out of my corner of ignorance.
Click to expand...

Tempting the leave you in your corner mate, but...the National Debt is what the Government owes. It issues Gilts and Bonds to raise cash from mostly private sector financial institutions, pension funds etc, and then has to pay interest on these things. It does this to cover the gap between what it raises in tax revenue and what it spends. When the economy is booming we generate more tax revenue, more people are working, so there is less spending....and vice versa. At the moment we have a strange situation where unemployment is going down but tax revenue isn't rising because so many of the 'new' jobs' are low paid.

It's mostly British institutions which own the debt, only 30% held overseas. The World Bank/International Monetary Fund, European Central Bank only get involved when the country is in such deep s**t economically that no one wants to buy their bonds/gilts e.g. Greece.

Here endeth Macro Economics 101
 
sb_73 said:
Tempting the leave you in your corner mate, but...the National Debt is what the Government owes. It issues Gilts and Bonds to raise cash from mostly private sector financial institutions, pension funds etc, and then has to pay interest on these things. It does this to cover the gap between what it raises in tax revenue and what it spends. When the economy is booming we generate more tax revenue, more people are working, so there is less spending....and vice versa. At the moment we have a strange situation where unemployment is going down but tax revenue isn't rising because so many of the 'new' jobs' are low paid.

It's mostly British institutions which own the debt, only 30% held overseas. The World Bank/International Monetary Fund, European Central Bank only get involved when the country is in such deep s**t economically that no one wants to buy their bonds/gilts e.g. Greece.

Here endeth Macro Economics 101
Click to expand...

Got you (and thanks for your patience).

Before I get consigned to Macro Economics room 101, am I right in thinking that if the deficit becomes too much then the government has to introduce extra money (physically printing or otherwise), thus devaluing the existing currency in circulation (or invested) hence the dawn of recession?

Alternatively, just tell me to bugger off and look at Wikipedia because I know you're a busy man (probably plagued by others asking similarly inane questions).
 
sb_73 said:
Tempting the leave you in your corner mate, but...the National Debt is what the Government owes. It issues Gilts and Bonds to raise cash from mostly private sector financial institutions, pension funds etc, and then has to pay interest on these things. It does this to cover the gap between what it raises in tax revenue and what it spends. When the economy is booming we generate more tax revenue, more people are working, so there is less spending....and vice versa. At the moment we have a strange situation where unemployment is going down but tax revenue isn't rising because so many of the 'new' jobs' are low paid.

It's mostly British institutions which own the debt, only 30% held overseas. The World Bank/International Monetary Fund, European Central Bank only get involved when the country is in such deep s**t economically that no one wants to buy their bonds/gilts e.g. Greece.

Here endeth Macro Economics 101
Click to expand...

http://www.theguardian.com/business...e-of-war-britain-makes-good-on-historic-debts

Time to default on everything, interest really is a curse on all our heads and on those of future generations.

Why do you say the "Holy Father" is unelected? Of course he's elected, that's what Papal Conclaves are for. Eligo in Summum Pontificem :grin:
 
KooPeeArr said:
Got you (and thanks for your patience).

Before I get consigned to Macro Economics room 101, am I right in thinking that if the deficit becomes too much then the government has to introduce extra money (physically printing or otherwise), thus devaluing the existing currency in circulation (or invested) hence the dawn of recession?

Alternatively, just tell me to bugger off and look at Wikipedia because I know you're a busy man (probably plagued by others asking similarly inane questions).
Click to expand...

I am busy but always welcome distractions........if the deficit becomes too much you have meltdown because the government can't finance it or even pay the interest on it....thats when you go to the IMF, like we did in the Seventies, or the European Central Bank, like the Greeks and the Irish did a couple of years ago. The conditions applied by these lenders are usually catastrophic for public spending, and make the poor even poorer.

You print money (or put more money in the system by issuing gilts and bonds) when the economy is slow and you want to get it moving by getting people to spend more. It's a delicate balancing act, if you put too much in the value of money goes down (inflation), interest rates rise (meaning people pay more for their mortgages and spend less money generating economic activity) and you end up worse than you started. We are printing money now (except we call it 'quantitative easing') but are pretty safe because both inflation and interest rates are very low. When the Bank of England thinks the economy is strong enough (low inflation and falling unemployment plus real growth) it will stop printing cash and raise interest rates (a little bit).

Don't take this as Gospel Matt, its a long, long time since I studied this.
 
Imaz said:
http://www.theguardian.com/business...e-of-war-britain-makes-good-on-historic-debts

Time to default on everything, interest really is a curse on all our heads and on those of future generations.

Why do you say the "Holy Father" is unelected? Of course he's elected, that's what Papal Conclaves are for. Eligo in Summum Pontificem :grin:
Click to expand...


...and of course he is chosen by God. Who clearly favours elderly white men. My mistake.

If all countries defaulted on their debt at the same time that could work. But only if we abandoned the whole stupid system at the same time, otherwise we'd just start building the same thing again. Defauting on your own isn't so pleasant, as the Argentinians have found out. Though the Greeks may wish they had done that instead of mortaging themselves in perpetuity.
 
sb_73 said:
I am busy but always welcome distractions........if the deficit becomes too much you have meltdown because the government can't finance it or even pay the interest on it....thats when you go to the IMF, like we did in the Seventies, or the European Central Bank, like the Greeks and the Irish did a couple of years ago. The conditions applied by these lenders are usually catastrophic for public spending, and make the poor even poorer.

You print money (or put more money in the system by issuing gilts and bonds) when the economy is slow and you want to get it moving by getting people to spend more. It's a delicate balancing act, if you put too much in the value of money goes down (inflation), interest rates rise (meaning people pay more for their mortgages and spend less money generating economic activity) and you end up worse than you started. We are printing money now (except we call it 'quantitative easing') but are pretty safe because both inflation and interest rates are very low. When the Bank of England thinks the economy is strong enough (low inflation and falling unemployment plus real growth) it will stop printing cash and raise interest rates (a little bit).

Don't take this as Gospel Matt, its a long, long time since I studied this.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stan - officially makes you a gentleman and a scholar!

It makes sense on the whole although I've got a couple of small queries on the mechanics of it that I'll ponder over on the journey home until they finally click!
 
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