Here is a thought for discussion

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THURNBY YELLOW

THURNBY YELLOW

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2014
1,710
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Thurnby, Leicestershire
What was the basis of our success under Lambert?
Well one could look at the management skills of course and I am sure that this was a factor without doubt (although his magic has not really worked at Villa!) or perhaps we could look at another area and that was the team spirit based on having no real superstars, but all the squad playing for each other and the credit reflecting on the club as a whole. Net result being that the squad whoever was picked was playing at its highest potential. We have spent a lot of money since those days on supposedly 'better' players (you all know who they are!) and where are we now? Mid-table in the Championship and looking a little rudderless.
So, my thought is to say O.K. - we won the F.A.Youth Cup with a pool of young talent which had the club at heart, energised the fans and reflected to a large degree the ethos described at the start of my piece. I am not saying to play that squad exclusively but what if we embraced a team pool of 20 players based on say 10 of that cup winning squad and tried to develop a new generation of player with Norwich City central in their hearts. This may mean sacrificing this season and maybe next but in 2-3 years under the right management this could be a wonderful basis for the future and of course any sales would be totally back in our coffers and not spread out through other transfer arrangements. Thoughts please.
 
The Wenger/Arsenal philosophy can work but it needs patience on the part of everybody. I don't know whether in the ' immediate success at all costs ' philosophy that has swept the game in the last 3 years our Board of Directors could be that patient and certainly the section of our fans who do not want to give Adams 6 months in the job wouldn't accept such a timescale.
 
its an interesting post and in part i agree (in terms of maybe further down the line, a bit like derby had to do - but it took them about 6 years to get to where they are now) but our squad is easily good enough to go straight up, or at the very least be challenging the top two and going up via the play offs, so why decide instead to throw half a decent squad out of the window and run with the youth, most of whom are not good enough for this level of football? equally, just because a player comes through the youth system does not mean they will run through a brick wall or play with any more passion or skill than a signed footballer.

this is and was always going to be our best chance to get promoted and build on an already decent squad, therefore giving us the best possible chance of remaining in the top flight the following year. to use relegation as a step backwards in order to go two forwards, but we're not doing that. i said all along that had we failed to gain promotion for two or three years then appointing someone like adams and looking towards building a young, homegrown side would have been a more logical idea, but not now!!! the youth should be there to dip in and out of when appropriate, not trust with our first season back in the championship. we should never have been even discussing writing off two or three seasons - and the fact we are is because the wrong manager was appointed. its already looking likely that redmond, arguably our best player at the moment is going to leave in january.

honestly, we are balls'ing this up big time - we've basically sabotaged our own chances. we could still go up this season, under the stewardship of adams, phelan, both or somebody completely different, who knows (i can't see it myself), but we'll have taken some stupidly unnecessary risks along the way.
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
its an interesting post and in part i agree (in terms of maybe further down the line, a bit like derby had to do - but it took them about 6 years to get to where they are now) but our squad is easily good enough to go straight up, or at the very least be challenging the top two and going up via the play offs, so why decide instead to throw half a decent squad out of the window and run with the youth, most of whom are not good enough for this level of football? equally, just because a player comes through the youth system does not mean they will run through a brick wall or play with any more passion or skill than a signed footballer.

this is and was always going to be our best chance to get promoted and build on an already decent squad, therefore giving us the best possible chance of remaining in the top flight the following year. i said all along that had we failed to gain promotion for two or three years then appointing someone like adams and looking towards building a young, homegrown side would have been a more logical idea, but not now!!! the youth should be there to dip in and out of when appropriate, not trust with our first season back in the championship. we should never have been even discussing writing off two or three seasons - and the fact we are is because the wrong manager was appointed. its already looking likely that redmond, arguably our best player at the moment is going to leave in january.

honestly, we are balls'ing this up big time - we've basically sabotaged our own chances. we could still go up this season, under the stewardship of adams, phelan, both or somebody completely different, who knows (i can't see it myself), but we'll have taken some stupidly unnecessary risks along the way.
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I agree<ok>
 
Here we go again!! A perfectly sensible thread on a possible long term progression of the Club immediately hijacked by a founder member of the ' we hate Adams, the Board and McNally ' brigade. What I don't understand is if our squad is so good that we would walk into the Premiership with anybody other than Adams in charge why did the Board, and McNally in particular, give the job to Adams? What motive can they have to severely financially damage the Club? Why wouldn't they want to get promotion this year? We just keep going over the same ground but more and more you, Supers, and your mates and trying to set out your opinions as facts. I don't know what the outcome will be - all I want is for people to give Adams a fair chance and get off his back. If it had been as simple as appointing somebody different to improve our chances of an immediate return to the Premiership then I am sure Adams would not have been appointed - it defies logic to suggest otherwise. It therefore boils down to whose views I accept on running a football Club - McNallys or yours. Sorry mate but it's a no brainer!!
 
what a bizarre response. i have written nothing controversial - i even agreed in principle to the op's long term strategy should we bugger this (and potentially next) season up, so how come i am going over 'the same old ground' yet you are not? where are these 'facts' you suggest i talk of? i have no gripes with our board of directors other than their decision to a) dismiss hughton at the time they did - should have been xmas 2013 or end of season; and b) their decision to place a novice in charge of a vital upcoming campaign which could make or break our football club. i don't want any of them to go - they have money in the bank as far as i'm concerned (mcnally and bowkett in particular). i even said we might still get promoted, yet i am effectively portrayed as beelzebub!!

getting pretty sick of this nonsense to be honest.

ps. i do not think our squad should 'walk' back to the premier league (those are your words), but i do believe we should finish the season promoted with this squad. anything other than that is complete failure. and if anything, its you who has hijacked the thread with your pointless rant.
 
I understand 1950's reaction as there are many people on here, Supers and KIO included, who predicate almost every post with 'getting rid of Adams' as the only possible solution to our current form. It is very frustrating for those of us who think there are other issues to consider.

As for the OP, I'm in favour of young players getting a chance, but not by simply throwing them in at the deep end. Josh Murphy has shown himself to be good enough, and Jacob is doing well at Blackpool with two goals so far. Toffolo is getting game time alongside Louis Thompson at Swindon and has now had his loan extended to the end of the season. These and others show lots of potential but probably more for next year than this. Josh will get more game time, McGrandles and Miquel are on the fringe as well for this season though and I hope they get their chances to push the senior players for places. If Redmond were to leave (and I don't think he should), we still have Grabban, Lafferty, Elliot Bennett, as well as Josh and Jacob as well as any new signing(s) that may come in in January.

I still feel that we have the potential for promotion and that is increased by the addition of Phelan to the coaching staff. I keep saying this, but we currently have the same number of points as we did under Lambert in the Championship after 18 games, so nothing is lost yet.
 
You gave a 3 paragraph response - one on the OP and 2 others referring to ' the wrong Manager being appointed ' we have ' ballsed it up ' how we have ' sabotaged our own chances ' and the taking of ' stupidly unnecessary risks ' I'm sorry but I don't consider that represents writing nothing controversial. Anyway I am equally as fed up with this nonsense and having had my say on more than one thread \i will end it there. Who knows - in 3 months time I might agree with you and tomorrow the fog and Mrs1950 might not get in the way of my round of golf so I won't feel so grumpy!
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
nobody should ever be denied a round of golf. i'd be grumpy too
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I was right pissed off Supers. As part of the retraining of 1950 following me getting into the habit of enjoying myself when she was in Australia Mrs1950 arranged for us to visit her Aunt Mauve at 12 o'clock ruining my daily round of golf. I had a word with the lads ( lads? Youngest one is 67!! ) and we brought forward our normal tee off time to 7. I got up at some ungodly hour, drove to the course only to find that due to the fog we were not allowed on the course until 9. I had to give up and come home only to learn at 10.30 that bloody Aunt Mauve had called off!!!
 
We are doooomed dooomed i tells ya , we should never of got rid of Hooughton this Adams plank aint done nothing he's a bloody radio pundit etc etc.


As Rick keeps saying we are on the same points as Sir King Lambchops was in this league .

Supers Carabuh and others tipped Adams to fail and when we were doing well they were nowhere to be seen , now we are not winning every game this place is flooded with doom and gloom mongers telling everyone that they knew we would fail and we are screwed for years due to Adam's reckless stupid appointment.
 
Back to the OP integrating the best players from our academy is essential for a club like Norwich but only when they are ready.
Both Murphy's are very good King scored for Scotland u21s so hopefully they can come into the squad and continue developing.
To try and shoehorn 10 into our squad is pushing it .
 
i seem to recall writing a long piece praising neil adams after 10 games (called '10' i think), in particular for his positive persona, the way he'd picked the players up after relegation and stopped the long winless run on the road, so i can't speak for others but its not true to say i only post when we lose (and personal issues regarding my mum mean i can't post too much anyway). however, i also criticised on that thread some of his decision making and felt that despite our good start (we were top at the time i think) he would need to improve these deficiencies (and so would the team) quickly or we'd struggle. he isn't learning from his mistakes, his persona is now far more negative and now we're struggling with one win in nine, which is an appalling run of results in context to this level. i didn't want adams in the first place because he wasn't an appropriate choice and with phelan's impending arrival (a mcnally appointment in my eyes) see adams as a lame duck, but i want my team to get promoted so i want him to knuckle down, sort the team out, stop making mistakes, get us back to winning ways and push up towards the top of the table where this side should be. we should all want that. i just don't see him able to do that.
 
Good points well made mate, as usual <ok>

It might be my blinkered desire in wanting Neeyul to do well (though he wasn't my first choice either by any means, in fact I was pretty pissed off as I had a tenner on both Malky and Lennon at good odds so thought I was going to win a few quid as well as appointing a proven, experienced manager as it looked in the summer) that is perhaps stopping me from being as negative and critical as some of you, but I can't help but think you are writing him off too early.
I personally don't think we're that far away from clicking and going on a run, we are creating enough chances so if we can start taking a few more - hopefully Hoops is now fully fit and raring to go - and cut out some of the dumb stuff at the back Neeyul could still be the hero I want him to be.
 
Only my opinion, but I think that our brief sojourn in the top division interfered with the mentality of the club. We lost the "hungry" ethos.
Looking at the top two divisions over the last few years I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the drive to achieve is far more beneficial than the "we're great/comfortable" mindset.
Contrast both Liverpool and Man City with Southampton and Swansea. How many points a season do you grab with a bunch of players who are still aiming for the big time rather than those who have "made it"?
It seems that you need to have a genuinely world class manager to get the best out of a team of stars.(Chelsea for example).
I honestly believe that we took our foot off the gas last year, believing that we were a comfortable mid Prem type of team with no more ambition than that. We signed players with that aim in mind and that's the type of players we got. And on being relegated - how prevalent was the view that we would be a shoe-in for a promotion push?
Again, we signed players who maybe believed that they were joining a club that would be showcasing their value without it being too much of a chore for them.
Dunno.
Might just be me rambling on and missing the point. But I for one would like to see 12-15 players who were champing at the bit to prove that they could make their mark. Rather than a number of our current crop looking like they think they're better than the situation they find themselves in.
 
Tony_Munky_Canary said:
Good points well made mate, as usual <ok>

It might be my blinkered desire in wanting Neeyul to do well (though he wasn't my first choice either by any means, in fact I was pretty pissed off as I had a tenner on both Malky and Lennon at good odds so thought I was going to win a few quid as well as appointing a proven, experienced manager as it looked in the summer) that is perhaps stopping me from being as negative and critical as some of you, but I can't help but think you are writing him off too early.
I personally don't think we're that far away from clicking and going on a run, we are creating enough chances so if we can start taking a few more - hopefully Hoops is now fully fit and raring to go - and cut out some of the dumb stuff at the back Neeyul could still be the hero I want him to be.
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Well said TMC - it's the 'schoolboy defending' that is really winding me up!!!!!
 
i do think adams has been a tad unlucky with injuries (perhaps no more so than most clubs and not as bad as we were struck last season) but even highlighting those shows just how many mistakes adams has made. hooper is top notch at this level and his injury in pre season was a disappointment, but he's been (as adams himself admits) chomping at the bit for weeks now and yet he's stuck with the blatantly misfiring grabban, whilst jerome, although offering far more to the side is missing big chances.

losing hoolahan was a blow, albeit some saw it as a blessing at the time. but that was adams biggest error so far, moving a fit and firing hoolahan out wide to accommodate grabban and jerome. he changed the winning formula and never corrected it and now wes is out we don't even have the option to put it right.

he was missing howson early doors (a class act at this level) yet you could argue our form has dipped since he came into the fold, which is bizarre - though since pushing him further forward in the last couple of games, at least he's found his scoring boots again.

bennett was due a concerted run in the team when he got injured, though we should remember that adams hadn't played him at all up to that point, preferring martin, even though, in my opinion, he'd be a huge asset at this level with his class on the ball.

odjidja-ofoe was a marquee signing who has barely featured, which is a shame, o'neil is another who really should be playing week in, week out (personally i'd make him captain) but he's had a couple of knocks. but with our depth, these injuries should not have affected our form to the extent that we've won 1 in 9. in terms of the level of football we are playing at now, that is an atrocious run of form, no matter how anyone tries to put a positive spin on it.

players errors should be highlighted but equally, lets hope phelan can help adams and holt with some of their decision making, which in my opinion has been very poor at times and cost us a lot of points too. i do think there is something in the 'hungry' ethos which is missing that we had last time in this league, but equally i think we have better quality, and certainly more depth in every position than last time, so there really should be no excuses.
 
One of my main questions in the OP related to the integrity of the players and whether they had the club at heart or were more journeyman who would move on for more money elsewhere. I was never advocating 100% youth but felt that a blending in of that mentality with the 'better' current players would help us in the medium/long term.
 
THURNBY YELLOW said:
One of my main questions in the OP related to the integrity of the players and whether they had the club at heart or were more journeyman who would move on for more money elsewhere. I was never advocating 100% youth but felt that a blending in of that mentality with the 'better' current players would help us in the medium/long term.
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it would in the long term, but as this is our best shot at returning to the top flight AND THEN having a squad capable of staying there, it would probably be the wrong time to promote young players who aren't ready and to be fair, murphy has been given a couple of opportunities and i imagine if any others were good enough they would have done by now.
 
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