Loans

[Gregm88]

After hearing and seeing highlights of Alex Song's MOM performance against Man City, I was wondering what people's opinions on loans are.

Over the last few years we haven't seemed to have favoured them as we would rather play our own players. This seems to have changed this year but we only seem to be interested if there is a buy option.

As far as I understand West Ham do not have a to buy option with Song, and given his performances in a position that is a problem for several sides - Man United, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City (arguably), West Ham may struggle to tie that one down without any arrangement in place (mostly because I imagine his fee is rising and was potentially towards the high end of their max per player anyway)

Does anyone think we will ever entertain taking a player from a really big club who is clearly out of favour, and clearly on too big a contract for us to sign permanently? I would imagine "no" because of the effect on team morale (although not hurting West Ham at the moment).

And does anyone think we may be looking to the Loan market again in January. I am not sure who is out there not getting game time at the bigger clubs who may be interested (probably some Chelsea players but we can't take anymore of them).
The biggest weaknesses in our squad (back up for Pelle and Forster) are unfortunately not areas that we can probably cover with loans as it would be obvious the loanee would just sit on our bench

Potential areas:
- More pacey right back (perhaps a versatile one who can play somewhere else such as right wing or left back)

- Cover for Mane for ACON / further attacking support : I know we are scoring goals but if you look at the Stoke squad for example their attacking options, at least in terms of numbers, far exceed ours: Crouch, Diouf, Moses, Walters, Odemwinge, Assaidi, Arnautovic, Bojan (and yes, I know we have scored lots more than them but there are a lot of options compared to Mayuka, Long, Gallagher (potentially still injured) and the kids (Isgrove, McQueen etc)

An example from this position could be Gnabry (not a minute played) and Joel Campbell (bit part). Can't see them getting much time at Arsenal in the new year behind Sanchez, Cazorla, Ox, Walcott, Ozil (maybe even Welbeck in a wide role when Giroud is back)

What do people think?

 

[Lovelocum]

Do we really need any january loans? We needed them more last year and didn't get them.

I don't really like the idea of bringing in loans without the option to buy- someone getting in the shop window, while we foot the bill. If they do very well as you say the 'big clubs' will come in. If they play mediocre do we want to sign them?

I think it's the wages and attitude of these players. Bertrand is rare, he is not a bertie big bollocks and (I presume) is prepared to take a slight cut in pay.

I would be happy with a front line of Mane Long Tadic but an injury to Pelle and mane/tadic would seriously hamper our attack. And although people are saying "It's ok, J-Rod will be back soon" I don't think people fully grasp the seriousness of his injury. I hope he comes in and starts banging goals in but its unlikely this season. He may never be the same player.

 

[Gregm88]

Do we really need any january loans? We needed them more last year and didn't get them.

I don't really like the idea of bringing in loans without the option to buy- someone getting in the shop window, while we foot the bill. If they do very well as you say the 'big clubs' will come in. If they play mediocre do we want to sign them?

I think it's the wages and attitude of these players. Bertrand is rare, he is not a bertie big bollocks and (I presume) is prepared to take a slight cut in pay.

I would be happy with a front line of Mane Long Tadic but an injury to Pelle and mane/tadic would seriously hamper our attack. And although people are saying "It's ok, J-Rod will be back soon" I don't think people fully grasp the seriousness of his injury. I hope he comes in and starts banging goals in but its unlikely this season. He may never be the same player.

Which is why I would be interested to see if we bring in attacking support (either for Pelle or one of the wide positions) in January.
Tadic is actually another interesting one. Whilst (unlike with Pelle and Forster) we have decent back up in his position we don't have anyone who can play remotely like him.

With regards to the Arsenal wingers I mentioned, upon reflection there is a good chance that if there was something in the Gnabry rumours any potential deal would have fallen through over the "to buy" part. Either Arsenal refused (because they an Chelsea hoard attacking midfielders) or set the price too high (as he has 4 - 4.5 years on his contract)

 

[Tottonsaint]

If they cant get in Arsenals team, they aint good enough for the team 3 places above them. .
Seriously though i would be wary of doing a deal like that with Arsenal, you know they would want something in return.
J Rod will be back soon, so will be like a new signing, Toby can cover right back if Clyne were to get an injury, pretty sure we would have an immediate call back for Boruc if needed, so at the moment we arent in any great need for back ups, Januzaj doesnt seem to be getting too much game time, and Mata wont when Rooney comes back, so either of those 2 could do a job for us if injuries were to hit us, either that or ask Liverpool if we can have Rickie back for a couple of months if Pelle gets crocked.

 

[hotbovril]

I think that the loan system is yet another way for the big clubs to keep a stranglehold on the "natural order" of football. I accept that there will be occasions where a club needs an emergency keeper but other than that, I think the practice of loans should be stopped. There is no doubt whatsoever that every time a loan signing comes in, it stops a another player (more often than not English) from getting a chance. Look at what we've achieved by giving those players a chance and it's hard to argue against it really.

 

[Lovelocum]

Which is why I would be interested to see if we bring in attacking support (either for Pelle or one of the wide positions) in January.
Tadic is actually another interesting one. Whilst (unlike with Pelle and Forster) we have decent back up in his position we don't have anyone who can play remotely like him.

Fair point. But how many players can play like him.

 

[Lovelocum]

J Rod will be back soon, so will be like a new signing

He will be like a new signing- because we have NO IDEA how he will be able to play.

 

[Lovelocum]

I think that the loan system is yet another way for the big clubs to keep a stranglehold on the "natural order" of football. I accept that there will be occasions where a club needs an emergency keeper but other than that, I think the practice of loans should be stopped. There is no doubt whatsoever that every time a loan signing comes in, it stops a another player (more often than not English) from getting a chance. Look at what we've achieved by giving those players a chance and it's hard to argue against it really.

I agree with this completely.

 

[Beef]

All we need in Jan is a second keeper so Boruc can go and maybe a rb on loan. Sign Bertrand and Toby will be enough for me tho.

 

[Tommomo]

All we need in Jan is a second keeper so Boruc can go and maybe a rb on loan. Sign Bertrand and Toby will be enough for me tho.

I would like a attacker. Someone who can slot in where needed up front. Jay will be months from hitting anything like top gear and we only really have Long to cover any of the front 3 in case of injuries. We could use JWP or Davis short term but they are all rounders and dont really add anything that would make the opposition defense lose sleep.

We were linked with Milner a few weeks ago and while i dont think he'd come here he's the kind of player i'm talking about. Versatile and dangerous.

 

[Lovelocum]

I would like a attacker. Someone who can slot in where needed up front. Jay will be months from hitting anything like top gear and we only really have Long to cover any of the front 3 in case of injuries. We could use JWP or Davis short term but they are all rounders and dont really add anything that would make the opposition defense lose sleep.

We were linked with Milner a few weeks ago and while i dont think he'd come here he's the kind of player i'm talking about. Versatile and dangerous.

Mayuka is still at the club, I can't believe nobody is interested in loaning/buying him. They must see something in him. I don't think he will ever be a striker but could he play the role that Long plays? Could he learn from Long and become a player who doesn't necessarily scores but worries and tires defences?

 

[Beef]

I would like a attacker. Someone who can slot in where needed up front. Jay will be months from hitting anything like top gear and we only really have Long to cover any of the front 3 in case of injuries. We could use JWP or Davis short term but they are all rounders and dont really add anything that would make the opposition defense lose sleep.

We were linked with Milner a few weeks ago and while i dont think he'd come here he's the kind of player i'm talking about. Versatile and dangerous.

Rather we play youth (If they are good enough) if needed then loan/ buy some one that will just be back up. We have Tadic, Mane, Jay(when fit), Davis, Mayuka, Isgrove, Mcqueen, Sims, Hesketh. That is plenty of back up and I haven't counted some youngsters that I think could play.

But yeah looking at it we have no real replacement for Pelle as Gallagher needs time. So maybe Gk, Rb on loan( I think McCarthy is playing better at cb) and Striker.

 

[fatletiss]

I think that the loan system is yet another way for the big clubs to keep a stranglehold on the "natural order" of football. I accept that there will be occasions where a club needs an emergency keeper but other than that, I think the practice of loans should be stopped. There is no doubt whatsoever that every time a loan signing comes in, it stops a another player (more often than not English) from getting a chance. Look at what we've achieved by giving those players a chance and it's hard to argue against it really.

Exactly this. If also add that a squad should be lower than the current number and then kids will have to come through at every club.

 

[Beef]

Exactly this. If also add that a squad should be lower than the current number and then kids will have to come through at every club.

Clubs will still get around it.

 

[tiggermaster]

One of the good thing about our current squad is that we have very good players that can cover more than one position, therefore Shane Long is natural cover for Pelle as well as being able to play wide. Toby can cover for Clyne with Gardos covering central defensive position. Cover for Forster is the main priority.

 

[Beef]

One of the good thing about our current squad is that we have very good players that can cover more than one position, therefore Shane Long is natural cover for Pelle as well as being able to play wide. Toby can cover for Clyne with Gardos covering central defensive position. Cover for Forster is the main priority.

And striker for me.

 

[tiggermaster]

And striker for me.

Can't have too many strikers, but hope that Jay Rod will provide the extra option soon enough..

 

[Beef]

Can't have too many strikers, but hope that Jay Rod will provide the extra option soon enough..

Jay plays better out wide where he can run at the defence, when he played upfront last season he didn't look like the same player at all.

 

[Gregm88]

I definitely think Striker back up for Pelle is important. I just don't think Long can contribute to hold up play and beginning attacks as he can.

I am envious West Ham got Sakho. Seems an inspired signing from the French second league. Low fee (and thus I assume lower wages). Did not move expecting to play every game. Can play as hold up striker and cover wide right. A similar player would be perfect for our squad. Hopefully our scouts consider more than just the top european leagues for option on this evidence.

It seems like most sides are playing (or trying to play) with a striker like Pelle now. Obvious examples are Costa, Bony, Lukaku, Ulloa, Sakho/Valencia. Sunderland even try playing two at a time (never usually works for any side)

Not all of course. Dzeko doesn't play every game for City and they can still be deadly up front and Man United's strikers have weak hold up play (although they have not been great this season).

It seems like it needs to fit the rest of your team as Balotelli is showing.

Most obvious mid/low end premier side I can think of that don't is West Brom with Berahino. Therefore it would seem like you either need a striker with very good hold up play or a quick and deadly striker. Long falls in the middle unfortunately (quick, with middling hold up play but not deadly enough)

 

[Gregm88]

Jay plays better out wide where he can run at the defence, when he played upfront last season he didn't look like the same player at all.

Which is why I find the Spurs links extra strange. Reports during the summer said that Poch wanted to sign him to play in his "favoured" central role. Something that is nonsense as he is best as inside forward. And at Spurs his position is taken by Lamela. I don't care how loyal Poch is to his ex players I do not see him dropping his £30m compatriot who is probably one of the top earners at Spurs for a Jay Rod just back from a serious injury

And in a Central role, Kane deserves a shot for them (I would happily have him at saints as part of the deal if they must have Jay, but he is from their academy and one of the only ones doing well from there so will never happen)