http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/29485408 - I can't copy and paste the text on my phone but would be grateful if someone could. What are your opinions on what he's said here?
Barton.
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Here:
QPR midfielder Joey Barton says the current Arsenal side has "no spine or character".
Manager Arsene Wenger marks 18 years in charge of the Gunners with a London derby at Chelsea on Sunday.
Commenting on their poor away record against top Premier League sides, Barton told BBC Radio 5 live that rival managers "had Wenger on toast".
"In big games they get under his skin and work them out tactically," said Barton.
Arsenal, who last won the league in 2004, have won just once - and lost 16 times - in their 20 away matches against sides who have finished in the top five in the past five campaigns.
Last season at Stamford Bridge, in Wenger's 1,000th game in charge, Arsenal suffered a 6-0 thrashing by Jose Mourinho's side.
Barton said: "That record is probably the reason they haven't won a title for years.
"Nobody can criticise Wenger on the job he has done to build the infrastructure at that club to a fantastic level. But it's probably been sacrificed at the cost of trophies and challenging at that level.
"You think of his teams of [Emmanuel] Petit, [Patrick] Vieira, [Tony] Adams, [Martin] Keown and all those kind of warriors. You look around the Arsenal dressing room now, the people who would win you those kind of games against the top four clubs - they don't really have an abundance of them.
"At the latter stages of a season they come unstuck because of that lack of - I hate to say it - a real lack of character or spine within the team."
Barton, who has also played for Manchester City, Newcastle and Marseille, believes Wenger discourages his players from acting as leaders.
"One of the things that comes out of the Arsenal dressing rooms is the change in culture from his first sides to now, where he's developing from within," said Barton.
"One player told me that Arsene doesn't like anybody raising their voice at half-time if it's not going well. He almost frowns upon it.
"Sometimes you need someone to galvanise and that might be a shouter and bawler. It may not be Arsene's way, but I think they lack that.
"Psychologically, the managers of these big clubs are usually top managers and I think they've had Wenger on toast. Sir Alex Ferguson had him on toast in the end and Mourinho's got him on toast now. That's what costs them."
QPR midfielder Joey Barton says the current Arsenal side has "no spine or character".
Manager Arsene Wenger marks 18 years in charge of the Gunners with a London derby at Chelsea on Sunday.
Commenting on their poor away record against top Premier League sides, Barton told BBC Radio 5 live that rival managers "had Wenger on toast".
"In big games they get under his skin and work them out tactically," said Barton.
Arsenal, who last won the league in 2004, have won just once - and lost 16 times - in their 20 away matches against sides who have finished in the top five in the past five campaigns.
Last season at Stamford Bridge, in Wenger's 1,000th game in charge, Arsenal suffered a 6-0 thrashing by Jose Mourinho's side.
Barton said: "That record is probably the reason they haven't won a title for years.
"Nobody can criticise Wenger on the job he has done to build the infrastructure at that club to a fantastic level. But it's probably been sacrificed at the cost of trophies and challenging at that level.
"You think of his teams of [Emmanuel] Petit, [Patrick] Vieira, [Tony] Adams, [Martin] Keown and all those kind of warriors. You look around the Arsenal dressing room now, the people who would win you those kind of games against the top four clubs - they don't really have an abundance of them.
"At the latter stages of a season they come unstuck because of that lack of - I hate to say it - a real lack of character or spine within the team."
Barton, who has also played for Manchester City, Newcastle and Marseille, believes Wenger discourages his players from acting as leaders.
"One of the things that comes out of the Arsenal dressing rooms is the change in culture from his first sides to now, where he's developing from within," said Barton.
"One player told me that Arsene doesn't like anybody raising their voice at half-time if it's not going well. He almost frowns upon it.
"Sometimes you need someone to galvanise and that might be a shouter and bawler. It may not be Arsene's way, but I think they lack that.
"Psychologically, the managers of these big clubs are usually top managers and I think they've had Wenger on toast. Sir Alex Ferguson had him on toast in the end and Mourinho's got him on toast now. That's what costs them."
Here's a copy of what he said:
"In big games they get under his skin and work them out tactically.
That record is probably the reason they haven't won a title for years. Nobody can criticise Wenger on the job he has done to build the infrastructure at that club to a fantastic level. But it's probably been sacrificed at the cost of trophies and challenging at that level.
You think of his teams of [Emmanuel] Petit, [Patrick] Vieira, [Tony] Adams, [Martin] Keown and all those kind of warriors. You look around the Arsenal dressing room now, the people who would win you those kind of games against the top four clubs - they don't really have an abundance of them. At the latter stages of a season they come unstuck because of that lack of - I hate to say it - a real lack of character or spine within the team.
One of the things that comes out of the Arsenal dressing rooms is the change in culture from his first sides to now, where he's developing from within. One player told me that Arsene doesn't like anybody raising their voice at half-time if it's not going well. He almost frowns upon it. Sometimes you need someone to galvanise and that might be a shouter and bawler. It may not be Arsene's way, but I think they lack that.
Psychologically, the managers of these big clubs are usually top managers and I think they've had Wenger on toast. Sir Alex Ferguson had him on toast in the end and Mourinho's got him on toast now. That's what costs them."
"In big games they get under his skin and work them out tactically.
That record is probably the reason they haven't won a title for years. Nobody can criticise Wenger on the job he has done to build the infrastructure at that club to a fantastic level. But it's probably been sacrificed at the cost of trophies and challenging at that level.
You think of his teams of [Emmanuel] Petit, [Patrick] Vieira, [Tony] Adams, [Martin] Keown and all those kind of warriors. You look around the Arsenal dressing room now, the people who would win you those kind of games against the top four clubs - they don't really have an abundance of them. At the latter stages of a season they come unstuck because of that lack of - I hate to say it - a real lack of character or spine within the team.
One of the things that comes out of the Arsenal dressing rooms is the change in culture from his first sides to now, where he's developing from within. One player told me that Arsene doesn't like anybody raising their voice at half-time if it's not going well. He almost frowns upon it. Sometimes you need someone to galvanise and that might be a shouter and bawler. It may not be Arsene's way, but I think they lack that.
Psychologically, the managers of these big clubs are usually top managers and I think they've had Wenger on toast. Sir Alex Ferguson had him on toast in the end and Mourinho's got him on toast now. That's what costs them."
I agree with the top managers of top teams (Mourinho, Ferguson, etc.) having his number in the big games, but disagree about the spine of the team comment.
We've been far too naive in recent years tactically when it comes to playing top teams. But by looking at the amount of results we've started to grind out by sheer persistence, there is a clear spine of the team and players that galvanize each other.
On a side note, Barton should really stop commenting on other teams deficiencies, when he and his team are currently dog ****. He's always had a mouth bigger than his boots, no matter how many times he's passed over by big clubs and good managers as being not good enough.
We've been far too naive in recent years tactically when it comes to playing top teams. But by looking at the amount of results we've started to grind out by sheer persistence, there is a clear spine of the team and players that galvanize each other.
On a side note, Barton should really stop commenting on other teams deficiencies, when he and his team are currently dog ****. He's always had a mouth bigger than his boots, no matter how many times he's passed over by big clubs and good managers as being not good enough.
Barton is an idiot but he makes valid points. Arsenal have been too naiive in recent years. In some senses our team ethic is our undoing. We are always a club that tries to play football the right way but it's led to a sacrifice in the hardness and competitiveness that is necessary to compete and win titles. When you see spineless capitulations like that one at Stamford Bridge earlier this year, it makes you question the hunger of this team. It's one thing to SAY you want to win, and another thing to translate that desire onto the pitch.
In terms of the physical aspect, well we have some big players physically but they are still bullied about by other stronger sides so it leads me to believe that the deficiency is mental more than anything. We seem to lack the confidence to keep trying to play our game or to try new things when falling behind in big games, particularly away from home. Partially it's down to faulty tactics but partly down to confidence too.
I believe as far as the spine of the team goes, we are still developing with the core of young British talent we possess. This can only improve. I would very much like to see a return to the kinds of players we had during the 90s and earlier noughties, robust physical British players like Parlour, Keown and Adams who were perhaps not the best technically but would give their all for the team.
In terms of the physical aspect, well we have some big players physically but they are still bullied about by other stronger sides so it leads me to believe that the deficiency is mental more than anything. We seem to lack the confidence to keep trying to play our game or to try new things when falling behind in big games, particularly away from home. Partially it's down to faulty tactics but partly down to confidence too.
I believe as far as the spine of the team goes, we are still developing with the core of young British talent we possess. This can only improve. I would very much like to see a return to the kinds of players we had during the 90s and earlier noughties, robust physical British players like Parlour, Keown and Adams who were perhaps not the best technically but would give their all for the team.
Hmm.. I don't really agree with him. there's a lot of Arsenal cliche's some are true and some are not.
1. The whole Arsenal need another 'Patrick Vieira' argument is utter bollocks. Patrick was a one off - there are no other Vieira's out there. The closest thing that exists is Yaya Toure but he's more of an AMF than Vieira.
2. We lack characters. This again is a myth. Ozil, Mertesacker, Podolski, Carzorla = World Cup Winners. Ozil & Sanchez have both won Champions league and La Liga titles. To do these things you have to have 'fight' its as simple as that.
As someone who has professionally trained World Class athletes this is my take..
As much as I love Arsene.. He is weak. The man just isn't a fighter.
In combat sports like boxing and mma you often hear coaches talk about how certain people are born to fight and compete and certain people just don't have the right mentality for it. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
When you watch Ferguson,Mourinho or Klopp on the sidelines during a 'big game' what do they do? They puff their chests out, shout and encourage their players. Berate them for playing badly and encourage them when they are doing well.
Arsene sits there looking petrified.. hiding in his enormous jacket, often biting his nails.
Players need encouragement, they need to be told they can be better, play better. Any seeds of doubt need to be wiped from their minds.
I'm not saying Wenger does'nt try to do that but he does'nt 'live it'. A team is always going to play with more confidence when the coach appears certain of victory.
1. The whole Arsenal need another 'Patrick Vieira' argument is utter bollocks. Patrick was a one off - there are no other Vieira's out there. The closest thing that exists is Yaya Toure but he's more of an AMF than Vieira.
2. We lack characters. This again is a myth. Ozil, Mertesacker, Podolski, Carzorla = World Cup Winners. Ozil & Sanchez have both won Champions league and La Liga titles. To do these things you have to have 'fight' its as simple as that.
As someone who has professionally trained World Class athletes this is my take..
As much as I love Arsene.. He is weak. The man just isn't a fighter.
In combat sports like boxing and mma you often hear coaches talk about how certain people are born to fight and compete and certain people just don't have the right mentality for it. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
When you watch Ferguson,Mourinho or Klopp on the sidelines during a 'big game' what do they do? They puff their chests out, shout and encourage their players. Berate them for playing badly and encourage them when they are doing well.
Arsene sits there looking petrified.. hiding in his enormous jacket, often biting his nails.
Players need encouragement, they need to be told they can be better, play better. Any seeds of doubt need to be wiped from their minds.
I'm not saying Wenger does'nt try to do that but he does'nt 'live it'. A team is always going to play with more confidence when the coach appears certain of victory.
It's easy to dismiss the views of attention seekers like Barton but he does make some fair comments.
Not so sure about his suggestion AW doesn't want players speaking up at H/T, he loved Tony Adams committment and was desperate for him to play on and I can't believe TA became a dressing room mouse as soon as AW walked through the door....
Not so sure about his suggestion AW doesn't want players speaking up at H/T, he loved Tony Adams committment and was desperate for him to play on and I can't believe TA became a dressing room mouse as soon as AW walked through the door....
Some interesting points peppered with some bollocks, that kind of sums up Joey Barton too.
What's his obsession with toast ?
Everyone loves toast!
Can't argue with that. I love toast too.
Lashings of butter and a thin spread of Marmite on a thick sliced crusty white cob
Rather than just dismissing it, would you like to detail what you disagree with? I tend to agree with all of it. People have come out before & said the first 10mins of half time is often spent in silence. Sounds believable to me.
Yeah alright chill Denzil. LOAF then.Because occasionally he's right. Still waiting for PISKIE to answer the question of what he objects to in what Barton has said instead of (as usual) derailing that rarest of moments on this board - a discussion about football.
Calm down. I already said I think he makes some interesting points. As for derailing - I'm the one usually trying to get them back on track after somebody has been fishing for a spat so you can **** right off with that accusation
Anyway I think Josephe Bartone makes some interesting, if not done to death, points about us lacking an enforcer type of player. Although Mertesacker, Kos, Wilshere and I think Sanchez are all players in that mould. I do think we lack a DM, but we know that already. I don't agree his assertion that Wenger doesn't like people who shout at their team mates, along with Adams, Parlour etc there was a well documented story about two Arsenal players nearly getting into a fight on the coach after a game once that we'd lost. Wenger's reaction was that it was okay, because it showed that they cared about the team.
I agree with him that we have been tactically naive against the big teams and it my sincere hope that Wenger doesn't go all guns blazing at Chelsea again on sunday as we'll get murdered again. Again this is nothing new from Barton, we've pretty much all been calling for this on here for a number of seasons now. It is probably the single most frustrating thing about Wenger, is that he never seems to learn from these drubbings. Other than that I think the rest of Barton's points were pretty cliched old soundbites. As I said initially, he makes some interesting points peppered with some bollocks.
He reminds me of David Icke. In as much that he makes some interesting points about big banks and corporations pulling the strings of Govts, which I can go along with, but as soon as he's got your attention he's spouting bollocks about the Queen being a shape shifting Lizard from another planet.
This is similar (if not as wild) as Barton's approach, he makes some good points, hooks you in, and then dumps a bucket of tosh over your head.
