Scottish Independence

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Leonardo said:
What Spurf doees not realise is that the YEs campaign are asking Scots to abandon what they have - and which works. You cannot simply say - abandon this and vote Yes and then we will try to find out how it works. What hypocrisy - throughout Spurf has said it is not like an election - and now he admits he is actually saying vote yes and then we will have anelection to see what you have voted for. There are none so blind as cannot see.

However Spurf must have put me on ignore as he can never respond to my criticisms and comments now nor even on the article I posted. You know you have lost when you stick your fingers in your ears and ignore people.
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I see your comments but your consistent willfull misunderstanding and twisting of my posts makes debate futile. I have seen some of your posts when I am not here that were far more positive and constructive. I think you have built up a personal dislike which is getting in the way of decent debate, let's just leave it.

I am happy to post here and answer the odd querie but there are limits.
 
NZHorn said:
I find it interesting that all the arguments being used against Scottish independence can also be used against the UK leaving the EU. Funnily I would be saddened if the UK left the EU but I am totally neutral about Scottish independence. For me it has the same significance as, say, Corsican independence.
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This is something which I had noticed as well NZ. It's ironic that some of those on here who are against Scotland going it alone are amongst the most vociferous anti Europeans ! Very strange though that a Scottish 'yes' vote actually increases the chances of Britain coming out of the EU - which is my main reason for not wanting it.
 
colognehornet said:
This is something which I had noticed as well NZ. It's ironic that some of those on here who are against Scotland going it alone are amongst the most vociferous anti Europeans ! Very strange though that a Scottish 'yes' vote actually increases the chances of Britain coming out of the EU - which is my main reason for not wanting it.
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I think they are just playing politics with this cologne. Don't you think Cameron just wants to be able to rengotiate with Europe armed with a disgruntled populace to lend power to his argument and come back with some sweeties.
 
Well I don't want Scotland to leave the UK and I don't want the UK to leave the EU. Both financial suicide. As for Corsica they really couldn't stand on their own two feet without government help. They keep getting more powers devolved, but as I suspect with Scotland, they will just keep on coming back for more.
 
Spurf said:
I think they are just playing politics with this cologne. Don't you think Cameron just wants to be able to rengotiate with Europe armed with a disgruntled populace to lend power to his argument and come back with some sweeties.
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One question Spurf. If we get a 'yes' vote then what consequences will this have for the general election planned for May 7th 2015 ? Is it planned that Scottish MPs would stay in Westminster for the interim period until full independence ? Or for the full electoral term ? Or would Scotland actually not be involved in such a general election after a 'yes' vote ? These are important questions because, as I understand it, a Conservative majority in Westminster (possible without Scotland) automatically leads to an EU Referendum - which I would prefer to avoid at all costs.
 
"Hundreds of thousands of Catalans packed the streets of Barcelona on Thursday to demand the right to vote on a potential split from Spain, their ambitions boosted by an independence referendum scheduled for next week in Scotland. The Catalan regional government, which like other Spanish regions has a large degree of autonomy, has called a non-binding referendum on Nov. 9 over whether Catalonia should become a separate state, but the Madrid government says the vote is illegal and cannot go ahead and the issue is deeply entrenched, pitting Catalonia against the rest of Spain. The price of Spanish government bonds has been falling as edgy investors trim their holdings before Scotland’s vote, where a victory for the nationalists would no doubt fuel Catalonia’s demands."

While the Spanish government refuse to encourage the Catalans in any way, they will not vote to allow Scotland into the EU and have even more difficulty with their economy.
 
colognehornet said:
One question Spurf. If we get a 'yes' vote then what consequences will this have for the general election planned for May 7th 2015 ? Is it planned that Scottish MPs would stay in Westminster for the interim period until full independence ? Or for the full electoral term ? Or would Scotland actually not be involved in such a general election after a 'yes' vote ? These are important questions because, as I understand it, a Conservative majority in Westminster (possible without Scotland) automatically leads to an EU Referendum - which I would prefer to avoid at all costs.
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Basically cologne this as with so many questions hangs in the air. This is because none of the Westmnster parties wish to acknowledege the possibility of a YES vote and therefore have refused to consider any planning any contigencys. I imagine that it has been discussed behing the scenes because back benchers have already raised this issue as a matter of concern.

There are a number of possibilitys. Posponing the election until 2016, preventing Scottish MP's from voting in Westminster, sending Scottish MP's home, carrying on as normal until the elections.

Scotland will have an election in 2016 when it becomes Independent. The two years up to this being the transition period.
 
Not sure which way it will go, don't care either being in Mexico.

I wish people were better informed before voting, this thread has educated me really.
 
I have a car for sale.

It is a brilliant car. It is the fastest on-road hatchback in Western Europe, It is very economical on petrol doing better than 50 miles per gallon. It's security is fantastic and experts say it cannot be broken into under any circumstances. Servicing is only needed every hundred thousand miles and will cost only £100 per service.

It costs only £50,000. Buy it on Thursday.


p.s. once bought there is no refund. Spurf has already ordered one.
 
This man also has a car for sale - it'll only cost you two letters

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he'll promise you a delivery timeline if you give him the letters on Thursday, but he won't actually give it to you until Friday. As for the state and price of the car, well that's anyone's guess...
 
I have to admit that if I lived in Scotland I'd vote yes. The problem is that Westminster and the city of London in particular just haven't listened and have carried on in their merry way riding rough shod over most people in the UK for far too long. Bankers are seen as a dirty word these days and there's good reason for it - they and their investors have ignored the will of many of the people - expecting to be bailed out when things go wrong because ultimately they can make threats to the economy. I think the people of Scotland and indeed many other places in the UK have had enough and luckily for them the Scots have a way out. Yet still the politicians and the bankers don't get it. Over the last few weeks economic threat after threat have been made and yet the Yes campaign gets stronger - why - because the more threats that are made the more people feel uck you for once I'm going to go with what my heart says. The Scots are right - they have far too many assets to be ignored in the global economy but through independence they can have their say in how they think their part of the world should be run. Good luck to them - my only concern is that the rest of us are likely to be left with even less democracy and more right wing threats to us that if we ever dare to follow suit we will lose out in a big way financially. However once we learn (as the Scots have) that these are hollow threats we too can change. Viva le revolution - anyone know of a nice house to buy in Scotland?
 
yellotoyou said:
I have to admit that if I lived in Scotland I'd vote yes. The problem is that Westminster and the city of London in particular just haven't listened and have carried on in their merry way riding rough shod over most people in the UK for far too long. Bankers are seen as a dirty word these days and there's good reason for it - they and their investors have ignored the will of many of the people - expecting to be bailed out when things go wrong because ultimately they can make threats to the economy. I think the people of Scotland and indeed many other places in the UK have had enough and luckily for them the Scots have a way out. Yet still the politicians and the bankers don't get it. Over the last few weeks economic threat after threat have been made and yet the Yes campaign gets stronger - why - because the more threats that are made the more people feel uck you for once I'm going to go with what my heart says. The Scots are right - they have far too many assets to be ignored in the global economy but through independence they can have their say in how they think their part of the world should be run. Good luck to them - my only concern is that the rest of us are likely to be left with even less democracy and more right wing threats to us that if we ever dare to follow suit we will lose out in a big way financially. However once we learn (as the Scots have) that these are hollow threats we too can change. Viva le revolution - anyone know of a nice house to buy in Scotland?
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If the vote is yes you can buy mine no problem. Decided not to move last month and not put more cash into this side of the border and risk my retirement....
 
Bolton's Boots said:
This man also has a car for sale...he'll promise you a delivery timeline if you give him the letters on Thursday, but he won't actually give it to you until Friday. As for the state and price of the car, well that's anyone's guess...
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I thought you'd turned BB. I was expecting a picture of Alex Salmond!!
 
Spurf said:
In case you don't know, a timely reminder.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brettarends/2014/09/12/scottish-independence-englands-shameful-secret/
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Spurf the only thing that worries me about this article is there seems to be emerging a Scots vs English argument rather than decent people vs the Westminster establishment which is what it should be. But there are no surprises here and is it any wonder that people have had enough of the establishment. In many ways it isn't just the Scottish referendum that shows this up but the amount of people who don't vote in elections, the disenfranchised youth and ethnic minorities, the north vs south divide we always hear about, etc etc the list goes on and the elite and the establishment refuse to listen. Well good luck to you and your yes campaign I only hope it starts up something in the rest of the UK.
 
yellotoyou said:
Spurf the only thing that worries me about this article is there seems to be emerging a Scots vs English argument rather than decent people vs the Westminster establishment which is what it should be. But there are no surprises here and is it any wonder that people have had enough of the establishment. In many ways it isn't just the Scottish referendum that shows this up but the amount of people who don't vote in elections, the disenfranchised youth and ethnic minorities, the north vs south divide we always hear about, etc etc the list goes on and the elite and the establishment refuse to listen. Well good luck to you and your yes campaign I only hope it starts up something in the rest of the UK.
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Why is it that the people voting Yes are entrenched lefties - with a chip on their shoulder about "Westminsterand the Bankers" Funny how when Britain was moving up the economic prosperity ladder from near the bottom as the sick man of Europe where the Wilson and Callaghan governments had taken us to a place as the second richest country in Europe before the 2008 recession we heard very little.

Short term economic vision

Alex Salmond even has the cheek to attack the Treasury for "leaking" ( i.e. confirming the truth) what the RBS plans were for a post Yes Scotland. Salmond does not want you to know the truth - he wants to hide behind the "nothing is known until you have committed yourself" lies.
 
Leonardo said:
Why is it that the people voting Yes are entrenched lefties - with a chip on their shoulder about "Westminsterand the Bankers" Funny how when Britain was moving up the economic prosperity ladder from near the bottom as the sick man of Europe where the Wilson and Callaghan governments had taken us to a place as the second richest country in Europe before the 2008 recession we heard very little.

Short term economic vision

Alex Salmond even has the cheek to attack the Treasury for "leaking" ( i.e. confirming the truth) what the RBS plans were for a post Yes Scotland. Salmond does not want you to know the truth - he wants to hide behind the "nothing is known until you have committed yourself" lies.
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Leo - this is not a straightforward Left versus Right debate. If it were many of our positions on here would be much clearer on one side or the other. The fact that George Galloway is up there campaigning for a 'no' vote (on the same side as Farage !) emphasizes this. However Yellotoyou is right here in that this is symbolic of a greater malaise in British society - Scotland is the part of the UK which is able to break away from model UK, others would probably like to. How do you think a separate, and, possibly successfull Scotland, would be viewed from Liverpool or from the North East ? I would suggest with envy.
 
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