It is and its why I was a massive opponent of thatcher in her day but later accepted what she did was necessary albeit I still disagree with a lot of her philosophy.
I am sure there is a large number of reasons that the supporters of Independence will vote Yes - I am also sure that many of them will do so that they can have a Scottish government focused on Scotland and not a UK government that believe is only focused on London and the South East. But finance and the economy is a major topic of the Yes campaign, so it's also something that should be debated. Personally I am in favour of an independent Scotland as I really dislike all forms of government and so I am also in favour of indepence for Wales and N. Ireland as well as a quick exit from the EU. But I have tried to put myself in the position of someone who will vote next week and ask the questions I would ask - and like Aberdeen I am not at all convinced of the answers - so although in favour of independence, I doubt I would vote for it as I would have no confidence in the political elite that woul take over from the political elite.
Your post is refreshing w-y. I too have found apparent contradictions in what I prefer, as this debate has evolved. I hate nationalism in all forms but find myself trying to understand the nationalist fervour on both sides of this question. In the end people will cope with whatever the outcome is, and will try to make the best of it. There will be anger in the near future but countries have been through much greater turmoil in the past and then successfully reconciled the results of the changes that have occurred. By way do example, Churchill and his supporters were totally opposed to Indian independence. Today, I doubt if even the most diehard Tory is still bitter about an independent India. We have all moved on. And so it will be with Scotland.
They are on the TV every day and we had the unfortunate experience of having Gordon Clown as PM. If you don't understand the modern politician then they have done a first class job on you spud...
I noticed a news item that stated that Clydesdale bank is registering in England in case of a Yes vote. Surely as a Scottish bank that has the right to issue it's own notes you would think that they would be quite happy if it happened. Not all though is quite so simple these days. They are actually owned by the National Australia Bank. Could the Dollar be the fall back currency?
That's the Westminster elite you are talking about, no need for the Spud insult btw, I thought this board avoided personal abuse. I am asking you what knowledge you have of the Scottish political elite that you are slating.
Change the record please Spurf - the Westminster elite; the westminster elite; the Westminster elite - yawn Now here is a good question for those of you who believe in Democracy - and you can thank David Cameron of the Westminster elite for the answer The UK has 63.2 million people. How many votes will it take to destroy it? Answer 2.1 million.
I know we have reciprocal agreements with the UK - I wonder what the situation will be with a yes vote. We have our own election on 15th October and if anyone even mentions that there could be better agreements with an independent Scotland, I don't think it'll make any difference to the person getting elected as we have such low turnouts and there are enough internal issues to worry about without adding anything to do with elsewhere to the manifesto.
The collected facts for the people of Scotland to decide. Watford will hate this Ready? Go: Scotland has only 8.3% of the UK's population. 8.3%! Remember this important figure... 8.3% But we DO have... 32% of the land area. 61% of the sea area. 90% of the fresh water. 65% of the natural gas production. 96.5% of the crude oil production. 47% of the open cast coal production 81% of the untapped coal reserves 62% of the timber production 46% of the total forest area 92% of the hydro electric production 40% of the wind wave and solar energy production 60% of the fish landings 30% of the beef herd 20% of the sheep herd 9% of the dairy herd 10% of the pig herd 15% if the cereal holdings 20% of the potato holdings ...obviously 100% of the Scotch Whiskey industry. We have a... 17 billion pound construction industry 13 billion food and drink industry 10 billion business services industry 9.3 billion chemical services industry A 9.3 billion tourism industry 7 billion financial services industry 5 billion aeroservice industry 4.5 billion pound whiskey exports industry 3.1 billion pound life sciences industry Scotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports We have 25% of Europes wave and wind energy potential. And finally we are blessed to have 1.5 trillion pound worth of oil and gas reserves. All of this, yet only 8.3% of The UK's population... Whaow Scotland should be rich! IGNORANCE... If you hear anyone saying "I DONT LIKE ALEX SALMOND" or "I DONT LIKE SNP"... THIS VOTE IS ABOUT SCOTLAND'S RIGHT TO ELECT ITS OWN GOVERNMENT... IT HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH ALEX SALMOND OR THE SNP. DONT LET POLITICAL IGNORANCE RUIN THIS OPPORTUNITY. Do you know... This is the UK's legacy of success in our history of being better-together is as follows... The UK has the 3rd lowest pensions in the 34 OECD countries of the world The UK has the single most expensive childcare in the European Union The UK has the second lowest-paid economy in the entire developed world The UK has the 3rd longest working hours in the EU The UK has the lowest number of holidays in the EU The UK has the 8th highest gender inequality pay gap out of the EU's 28 countries The UK has the highest likelihood of poverty in disablement in the EU The UK has the highest rail prices in Europe The UK has the second highest housing cost in Europe The UK has the highest fuel poverty rates in Europe. The UK is the 4th highest country of wealth inequality in the entire planet! But surely these awful figures cannot be possible when you read the following Scottish statistics... Now, finally, did you also know that in all of the UK's elections for Westminster ever!... Not one vote cast in SCOTLAND has ever mattered! Because of the Westminster numbers, whatever government England votes for, the UK gets. So we have no democracy here!!! 4 decades of tory rule that we voted against is proof enough, and our defiance was punished by the closure of all the mines; closure of all the steelworks; closure of all the shipyards losing hundreds if thousands of jobs. The term used by Westminster's Thatcher when these industries needed some assistance was "let the markets decide". Funny how when the greedy bankers collapsed everywhere they were bailed out to the tune of over a trillion pounds of our money... Not a mention of "let the markets decide". FACTS: Fact: Scotland has an oil boom waiting to happen on the West Coast, but Michael Hesaltine signed a cessation of any form of oil exploration in the entire area in the 80's to make way for nuclear submarines which Scotland doesn't want! Fact: Scotland has shown its revulsion time and time again to nuclear weapons but they place them here against our countries wishes. A recent contingency report was carried out a out the feasibility of relocating them in Portsmouth. The report stated that it was unfeasible because the detrimental risk to the area of an incident was too high. (Ok for the Clyde though) Fact: Scotland, with only 1 Tory MP, was forced to take the shocking attack on the poor & disabled called The Bedroom Tax, even though as our nations government, Holyrood voted to utterly reject this awful tax on the poor. Westminster gave us it anyway! Fact: We are led to believe that the oil in our waters is finished and its a dying industry. Yet 13.5 billion has been invested by oil companies in the last 2 years alone! Fact: The Clair Oil Field is about to open, and on its own has over 650 million barrels which will be extracted over 20+ years with production reaching a hundred thousand barrels a day! Fact: Scotland gives more to Westminster than it gets back. Do you really think they'd be so keen to keep us if we were being subsidised like they'd have us believe? Fact: Westminster has amassed over £1.3 trillion debt and still growing at nearly £6000 a second. Thats another £516 million today alone which YOU will have to pay for. Fact: Of the 178 countries that have gained their own independence across this planet, not one single one of them has ever asked to reverse this independence, and very few of them have the assets we have. SCOTLAND, WHAT ARE WE SCARED OF? WE HAVE A CHANCE... WITHOUT A SINGLE BULLET BEING FIRED, WITHOUT A SINGLE DEATH... TO GET OUR FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS PUT A CROSS IN THE YES BOX. SCOTLAND, ITS TIME TO STAND UP AS A NATION AND VOTE YES ON THE 18TH OF SEPTEMBER... AND BECOME A FREE AND CARING NATION AGAIN!!! VOTE YES AND SET OUR COUNTRY FREE!!!! Y E S ! ! ! Y E S ! ! ! Y E S ! ! !
Oh Leo, you are heading into dangerous waters here. Are you saying that a minority group should never be allowed to cecede because they cannot get a majority vote?
Yawn, you never listen....Extract facts that suit you and frankly it's boring. I'll tell you one more time Clair field has been producing for 20 years. There is not 1.5 trillion of extractable oil. Fact scotland all the industry etc needs to support those 6 million fgolk and it will go into decline so on economic front this does not make sense, on an emotional front it makes sense to some and on a political front to others but don't try and argue the economics because it doesn't wash, and fyi 100,000 barrels a day is chicken feed, Buzzard brought on 250,000 a day 6 years ago already up to 50% water cut it's damn expensive, clair ridge which is what you refer to at 100k is marginal on economics which is why it wasn't put on production sooner. Already voted NO as has or will anyone else with two or more brain cells.
No I'm talking about the Scottish political elite as well - I will say it again, if you don't understand the modern politician, then they have done a good job on you spud...Gordon Clown, King Alex, Clegg, Cameron - they are all the same
Spurf, ignoring Scottish independence you have reminded me why i left the UK. I didn't like the Thatcherite Utopia. I've never regretted it and now have a much better and healthier lifestyle. Of course that is not the same as a country leaving.
You clearly do not understand my question. I am asking you about the Political elite in the Scottish Government not Westminster. Gordon Brown etc, are Westminster politicians the fact he is Scottish is not relevant to this point.
