OT -stop bombing hospitals

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Norfolkbhoy

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,590
414
83
Norwich
Before I get going I am no Islamist apologist I get that many in the west still feel guilt over the holocaust I understand that many in power particularly in the US Remember Israel's role as an historic bulwark against communism in the region in the period up to the 90's and current role in standing against radical Islam if only as the pantomime villain taking the heat off the US. I accept that Israel has the right to defend itself and that Hamas are not exactly the sort of peace loving next door neighbours you would wish for.

However with all that said I cannot get why Israel's leaders feel that they should have the right to bomb schools and hospitals and send air strikes to beaches where kids are playing. I also do not understand how these actions will do anything other than create an entire generation of Hamas members hating Israel right on their doorstep so the strategy seems inherently flawed unless they plan to wipe Palestine off the map. To my mind this makes the leaders of Israel either fools or genocidal maniacs, I don't think they are fools.

Given Israel's history one would imagine they would feel abhorrence for any form of racially based mass murder but they appear to see their history as justifying their current actions.

Why is it that our leaders are imposing sanctions on Russia for their role in the accidental shooting down of an aircraft and we are doing nothing whilst a nation systematically attacks another state with no capacity to defend itself. I don't pretend to have a solution but I do think that the west should do a bit more to try and stop Israel rather than focus on freezing the assets of a few Russian billionaires.
 
I recently watched the Louis Theroux documentary when he went to the West Bank to talk to people involved in the conflict. The problem they have there is that the Israeli nation believes that God gave that area to the Jews and that the Palestinians that live there are 3rd/4th class citizens who "Stole" the land from them. Their only argument for being there is God said we should be and that's the only reason they'll ever give. There is very little reasoning with these people but the larger nations should make it apparent that they wont tolerate this.

It is effectively genocide what they are trying to do and it's truly disgusting.
 
They should stop Hamas firing rockets into Israel from schools and hospitals then. Hamas are doing this precisely to get this reaction, Hamas WANTS Israel to kill children for propaganda purposes!
 
I'm not saying it never happens dave but the UN safe haven and school they shelled, Israel claimed rockets were fired yet the journalist in the area said there was no evidence of it.

I don't care if someone fires a rocket that is never an excuse to shell a hospital or school or the UN.

Look at the loss of life figures it's something like 63 Israelis and 1300 Palestinians, that's not war that's a slaughter.

Not all Palestinians back Hamas.

Israel play into Hamas' hands with things like illegal settlements, segregating families, controlling aid into the region and refugees out. Israel has made many promises in the past and broken them.

So I can see why Hamas attract followers and why they do what they do, however the fact Hamas does these things gives Israel the very justification good what it does.

Sadly I don't see this coming to an end anytime soon, Israel has broken too many promises and Hamas has fired too many rockets neither side is capable of extending Trust to the other.

The sad thing is both sides believe the land is holy, both for largely the same reasons, both faiths have a loving forgiving God and both sides religion advocates living in peace with fellow man. All of which really proves it's not about religion it's about hate and intolerance
 
ColkOfTheBarclay said:
I recently watched the Louis Theroux documentary when he went to the West Bank to talk to people involved in the conflict. The problem they have there is that the Israeli nation believes that God gave that area to the Jews and that the Palestinians that live there are 3rd/4th class citizens who "Stole" the land from them. Their only argument for being there is God said we should be and that's the only reason they'll ever give. There is very little reasoning with these people but the larger nations should make it apparent that they wont tolerate this.

It is effectively genocide what they are trying to do and it's truly disgusting.
Click to expand...

This is why I disagree strongly with religion. I find the settlers the most disturbing you get people from all over Europe and the States just turning up and taking land and Israel deem it as perfectly legal because of their religion, the whole thing is backwards. The main problem with the large nation's is the USA, not only the main supplier and supporter of Israel, they also have a lot of Pro-Zionist's in their political system namely the Republican party and in some parts a large ultra conservative Christian population who hate everything.
 
My history isn't brilliant, but didn't the West decide that the 'home' for the Jewish people should be Israel after WW2 when they had nowhere else to go ? Basically just creating a Jewish state in a land they had no right to. I may have got my facts wrong and stand to be corrected, but that's what I've always been led to believe.
 
There are lots of Jews controlling politics and the media in the US and it`s no coincidence that the planes and military hardware used by Israel are US made.
Israel will risk everyone`s life on the planet in order to reclaim Temple mount ,The Palestinians will happily die for their cause.
To most rational people the Israelis are the obvious aggressors but the US and UN let them get away with murder, the whole mess is similar to N Ireland but much heavier.
 
KIO said:
My history isn't brilliant, but didn't the West decide that the 'home' for the Jewish people should be Israel after WW2 when they had nowhere else to go ? Basically just creating a Jewish state in a land they had no right to. I may have got my facts wrong and stand to be corrected, but that's what I've always been led to believe.
Click to expand...

Pretty much KIO here is a handy diagram to illustrate Palestinians grievance as to why they feel pushed out of their own homes.


You must log in or register to see images
 
This is why I feel so angry about Israel's behaviour, it's just staggering. You can why Hamas behave the way they do, they feel they have no choice
 
ColkOfTheBarclay said:
I recently watched the Louis Theroux documentary when he went to the West Bank to talk to people involved in the conflict. The problem they have there is that the Israeli nation believes that God gave that area to the Jews and that the Palestinians that live there are 3rd/4th class citizens who "Stole" the land from them. Their only argument for being there is God said we should be and that's the only reason they'll ever give. There is very little reasoning with these people but the larger nations should make it apparent that they wont tolerate this.

It is effectively genocide what they are trying to do and it's truly disgusting.
Click to expand...

What a load of cr*p. It was their land - Christ, if he existed was a Jew. The modern day Israel was created by the UN on land the Palestinians did not want or need but as soon as a prosperous State was created they wanted it back. There is nothing in the Israeli Constitution against a Palestinian State but the SOLE aim of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. They are so extreme that even Iran has disowned them yet the majority of people in Gaza voted for them - how can they now play the innocent victim routine? This all kicked off because of the increase in rockets being fired by Hamas - do you think these rockets contained birthday cards. There are also 40 tunnels from Gaza into Israel - do you think they were for delivering fruit or veg? What were Israel supposed to do - sit back and take it. Modern day weapon systems can track incoming missiles and respond. Fire a rocket from within or near a hospital/UN building/school you will get one back in the same place and that is what is happening. Read the reports carefully. The headlines from today say ' Israel bombs UN School ' read on and you will see that the bomb landed ' near to the entrance to the UN School ' I support Israel 100% and place all blame on Hamas.
 
1950canary said:
What a load of cr*p. It was their land - Christ, if he existed was a Jew. The modern day Israel was created by the UN on land the Palestinians did not want or need but as soon as a prosperous State was created they wanted it back. There is nothing in the Israeli Constitution against a Palestinian State but the SOLE aim of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. They are so extreme that even Iran has disowned them yet the majority of people in Gaza voted for them - how can they now play the innocent victim routine? This all kicked off because of the increase in rockets being fired by Hamas - do you think these rockets contained birthday cards. There are also 40 tunnels from Gaza into Israel - do you think they were for delivering fruit or veg? What were Israel supposed to do - sit back and take it. Modern day weapon systems can track incoming missiles and respond. Fire a rocket from within or near a hospital/UN building/school you will get one back in the same place and that is what is happening. Read the reports carefully. The headlines from today say ' Israel bombs UN School ' read on and you will see that the bomb landed ' near to the entrance to the UN School ' I support Israel 100% and place all blame on Hamas.
Click to expand...

If you are born in the house your grandfather owned but Palestinian you are not allowed to live there, if you are born in USA but Jewish you can live there straight away
because God said it`s ok in a book written 1000s of years ago.
Madness 50s.
 
Rich44 said:
I'm not saying it never happens dave but the UN safe haven and school they shelled, Israel claimed rockets were fired yet the journalist in the area said there was no evidence of it.

I don't care if someone fires a rocket that is never an excuse to shell a hospital or school or the UN.

Look at the loss of life figures it's something like 63 Israelis and 1300 Palestinians, that's not war that's a slaughter.

Not all Palestinians back Hamas.

Israel play into Hamas' hands with things like illegal settlements, segregating families, controlling aid into the region and refugees out. Israel has made many promises in the past and broken them.

So I can see why Hamas attract followers and why they do what they do, however the fact Hamas does these things gives Israel the very justification good what it does.

Sadly I don't see this coming to an end anytime soon, Israel has broken too many promises and Hamas has fired too many rockets neither side is capable of extending Trust to the other.

The sad thing is both sides believe the land is holy, both for largely the same reasons, both faiths have a loving forgiving God and both sides religion advocates living in peace with fellow man. All of which really proves it's not about religion it's about hate and intolerance
Click to expand...

And your solution is? All the casualty figures show is that Hamas uses people as human shields and Israel is a lot better at caring for its citizens. Despite the blockade by not only Israel but also Egypt - another Arab nation so what does that tell you about Hamas - Hamas still gets arms including rockets. What would they get their hands on if the blockade was lifted? The only solution is a 2 state settlement and Israel accepts this but it cannot proceed as long as Hamas stands for the complete destruction of Israel. All other Arab States understand this which is why they refuse to support Hamas and that problem does not change because, in defending itself. Israel kills civilians being used as human shields.
 
SUPERNORWICH 23 said:
There are lots of Jews controlling politics and the media in the US and it`s no coincidence that the planes and military hardware used by Israel are US made.
Israel will risk everyone`s life on the planet in order to reclaim Temple mount ,The Palestinians will happily die for their cause.
To most rational people the Israelis are the obvious aggressors but the US and UN let them get away with murder, the whole mess is similar to N Ireland but much heavier.
Click to expand...

And your point is? The UN created modern day Israel and they have been attacked by Arab nations ever since. The only way they could defend themselves was to buy weaponry from America as we did in the World Wars. Of late the Arab world has accepted the existence of Israel and stopped attacking it but Hamas still continually attacks. How can Israel be the obvious aggressors when they defend themselves. Yes, Israel have nicked more land since 1949 but the only way the Palestinians will get it back is round the negotiating table but Hamas cannot go there because they refuse to accept Israel should exist.
 
SUPERNORWICH 23 said:
If you are born in the house your grandfather owned but Palestinian you are not allowed to live there, if you are born in USA but Jewish you can live there straight away
because God said it`s ok in a book written 1000s of years ago.
Madness 50s.
Click to expand...

No - because the UN said so in 1948. Quite clearly you, like Hamas, agree that Israel does not have a right to exist.
 
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