Don't people think that Woy has had a good deal off the press in Brazil? I am old enough to remember the likes of Don Wevie, Won Greenwood and Sir Bobby Wobson, each of whom had very large buckets of **** poured over their heads at various stages of World Cup campaigns. Woy has just led us to our worst World Cup performance since the 1950s, yet appears to have got off scot fwee? Clearly Woy has made some lamentable gaffes in the last two weeks. Picking Baines at full back. Picking Jagielka and Henderson full stop. An over weliance on the myth that is Steven Gerrard (I see Lampard is back for another gimme today ). And messing about with Wooney's position in the side. That is quite a debit list. Would you consign Woy to the mangaerial wubbish heap, or give him the chance to prove his worth next time in Wussia?
What has he got to work with? No quality at all, just a bunch of over-paid eejits who are world-class only in their own minds.
I really do not think it would make much difference who was in charge, the players with a few exceptions are not up to it. Just look at our back four Johnson, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines. The trouble is with the replacement of Baines with Cole, what English players would make the defence stronger? Smelling?, Jones? Richards? Don't say Terry because he has retired. The pool of English players is getting smaller and smaller. I really believe that there should be a limit to the amount of Foreign players who can be in a Premiership squad. We should look at the German blueprint and put it in place. But it will not happen because there are too many vested interests. Let us be honest the England team has been crap for a long time.We keep on changing the Manager but we don't get any better. It is like changing the cake decorations when the cake is stale. It is the cake that needs changing not the decorations. What really bothers me is that countries like the US, Costa Rica, Chile, Australia etc look better than us.
I think he's gotten off lightly due to trying to incorporate some youngsters and actually playing a style which makes us vaguely bearable. As HRH says, he hasn't got a wealth of talent to work with and seems focused on making the youngsters guys more accustomed to a style that will hopefully benefit them as individuals (as well as England) long after Roy has gone. He's made some mistakes, but I actually prefer him to the last few managers we've had.
England are now in the same position Scotland has been in for ages- the best managers would rather stay with their clubs than manage their country. 'Arry was the only other runner for the job, and even he has ruled himself out in the future. Who else of stature would take the job?
It's no more complicated than this for me... Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we can all act wiser picking different players after the event, but ultimately the manager is only as good as his players... The successful teams all seem to have players that take their chances, and even if they're not playing that well, these players somehow create moments that change games.... That's the type of thing that gets you close to world class, and we have very little, to none of that...
I'm glad 'Arry ruled himself out... possibly the most over rated manager in history in my opinion. The guy needs money, and he knows he'd fail at England because he can't just spend 300m on a team
Dick, are you really saying that the Costa Rica players (player for player) are better than England's..... after all Costa Rica qualified for the knock out stages.
I am not saying that player for player they are better than England's . You have got to ask yourself why have teams like US and Costa Rica outperformed us in a major competition? Are we lacking a team ethos? Have our players no pride in playing for their Country? Are we lacking moral fibre, or bottle? Or do we think we are better than we are? I really don't know the answer to these questions.
To me it is a lazy arguement to say our players aren't good enough (all of England's back four were regular starters for teams who finished in the top 6 in the Premiership) the problem is that as a team the England players do not perform in major competitions and this must be the responsibility of the management..... for decades Spain had the exact same problem and they solved it by developing a competition mentality in their youth players right from the U16 age group and worked this up the youth teams to the senior squad.
It's not a lazy argument. To say that the England back four were regular starters in Top 6 Premiership teams is not really relevant to a point. One could argue that the teams finished in the Top 6 because they were top heavy with imports, not that the English players drove them to that position. Perhaps Woy picked them just because of the fact they were English and finished in the Top 6 therefore they must be good. These guys are probably a class above the likes of Palace, Hull, Sunderland players that they encounter every week. Now they are on the world stage and it is apparent that playing in "the best league in the world" doesn't make them the best players in the world. They are overpaid and have no desire. They have it all. Most of the other players in the tournament have desire and a wish to showcase themselves in the hope of a move to the Premiership or Bundesliga. Is Spains demise bought about by the same reasoning - overpaid, got it all, no desire?
No a frequent poster so take it easy on me :0) I don't think blaming the players is a lazy argument.. they are the ones that failed. We cannot be drawn into the idea that the premier league is the best in the world because the marketing guys at sky sports are telling us that.. yes English teams have had success in Europe.. but most of those teams have lots on non English players playing for them. As in league football the results never lie.. in major competitions since euro 1996 we have consistently failed and what's more have played awful football..
Good post sacafc, totally agree it's not a lazy argument, it's the bottom line... Our so called world class players had opportunities to win those two games, but unlike the real world class players who actually deliver great moments for their teams, ours simply fail... Too many English players in the Premier league are over hyped, and as you say much of their club success is down to the quality of the non English players around them... As soon as they get separated from that, and collectively pull on England shirts, you see them for what they really are....
Cheers IWABTO And its real genuine quality we really lack.. We have not had a central midfielderwho can control the pace of the game and dominate ball play since Gazza... and I find that a major worry.
The difference for me is the lack of 1 world class player. Rooney is good, 40 international goals, albeit against teams like San Marino, is no mean feat. Yet he is not world class, Saurez, love him or hate him, is world class, and it showed when he was the difference. Owen in his prime was World Class, so was David Beckham, but we've not had anyone anywhere near that level since. Barkley could become that person... or he could end up like Rooney, just not achieving potential. Management has to take some blame but not just the international stage, the club managers are not helping these players develop into the quality they could and should be. Stuart Pearce said it, Shaw would have learnt more and progressed as a player more playing in the u20 championships last month rather than having no match time in Brazil. Germany and Spain did it, Gotze, Shurrle, Muller all went through from u16 to u21, not being rushed into the first team. Whereas Spain had Mata, Pique, Javi Garcia, all go through and play the u20 world cup before being thrown into the senior squad. Whereas we find a cracking 18 year old, and take him out of the youth teams and straight into senior squad
To answer my own qwestion. Woy gets a good deal from the pwess because he is palpably a good bloke. So was Bobby Wobson, but Bobby has Lineker, Wobson and Gazza at his disposal. I don't buy the argument that our players are technically good enough. Missed tackles, missed headers, poor shooting, missed headers from under the crossbar. Tiredness...or sheer lack of ability ?
Well it's that type of evidence that gives some weight to the argument that the players are nowhere near world class...
Lazy argument, my arse It can't all be down to the Manager. Every Manager since Ramsey has failed to varying degrees. Hoddle, Robson, Taylor, Capello, Venables, Ericsson, Revie, Greenwood, Keegan etc. You can't tell me they are all bad Managers. There is something fundamentally wrong when we play in major competitions. What i am saying is a nation like us, that is steeped in football, should be doing better. Let us look at how a successful nation like Germany does it. We should be doing as well as them. I think we get obsessed with getting rid of the Manager, when we should be looking at other things.
Tiredness could be a factor every so often... but every player being tired for every world cup/European cup for the last 18 years just doesn't add for me... When you strip it all back it comes down to a sheer lack of ability
