OT - UKIP, surely we can do betterthan this
- Thread starter Norfolkbhoy
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J
JKCanary
Guest
It seems a good number of people have voted UKIP as a protest against the 'establishment'.
So essentially, they have protested against the 'establishment' by voting for a party made up mostly of wealthy, white, male members that could easily be considered as part of the 'establishment'. Brilliant.
So essentially, they have protested against the 'establishment' by voting for a party made up mostly of wealthy, white, male members that could easily be considered as part of the 'establishment'. Brilliant.
There are a plethora of reasons behind this.The media played a blinder for UKIP.Every insult they hurled was thrown back by Farage and generated more publicity for a party that is still essentially a protest vote - JWM admits he will go back to voting Tory at the GE.
An article on the news this morning says that racial prejudice has increased dramatically.I would dispute that,I think what has increased is the dislike of certain aspects of immigration.Almost certainly Islam is responsible for this increase (I notice the survey says since 2001).
As JWM well knows to his chagrin I am a left voting liberal (small l) But where freedom must stop is granting it to those who seek to use it to deny freedom to others.Freedom must trump all other considerations and that includes religion.Freedom must apply to all,not just the male half of the population.Freedom must extend to allowing people to leave a religion and not sentencing them to death if the desire that course.
I would say that everyone is welcome as long as their values fit in with the 21st century.OK the 20th would be a start.
And,BTW JWM The Tories lost the boundary changes because they reneged on House of Lords reform and Clegg scuppered it as a reprisal.Own Goal.Shot foot.
An article on the news this morning says that racial prejudice has increased dramatically.I would dispute that,I think what has increased is the dislike of certain aspects of immigration.Almost certainly Islam is responsible for this increase (I notice the survey says since 2001).
As JWM well knows to his chagrin I am a left voting liberal (small l) But where freedom must stop is granting it to those who seek to use it to deny freedom to others.Freedom must trump all other considerations and that includes religion.Freedom must apply to all,not just the male half of the population.Freedom must extend to allowing people to leave a religion and not sentencing them to death if the desire that course.
I would say that everyone is welcome as long as their values fit in with the 21st century.OK the 20th would be a start.
And,BTW JWM The Tories lost the boundary changes because they reneged on House of Lords reform and Clegg scuppered it as a reprisal.Own Goal.Shot foot.
J
JKCanary
Guest
Er, have I missed something here JWM ? Surely if the Jocks vote for independance all Scottish MP's would be out of a job overnight ? If not, why not ?
Without the Scottish vote Labour would probably become almost unelectable thinking about it. I actually can't believe that the Scots will be daft enough to vote to go it alone as they would lose the millions and millions of pounds sent up there every year by Westminster. It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas !
That oil will run out one day too, in fact I would argue that the rest of the UK should still be entitled to a share of that oil as it was the UK ECONOMY that paid to get said oil out of the sea.
J
JKCanary
Guest
Help please:
- Who would get the oil revenues if Scotland became independent?
- How would an independent Scotland defend itself?
- Can Scotland be independent and keep sterling?
- How much debt would an independent Scotland have?
- Would Scottish students be charged EU tuition rates, and vice versa?
- SNP leader Alex Salmond has pledged to cut corporation tax by 3pc. However, the Institute of Fiscal Studies is doubtful whether Scotland could sustain lower taxes!
- Tax breaks, such as Isas and those available to friendly societies, are offered by the UK Government to its own nationals and according to UK tax law. These cannot exist in a foreign country, as Scotland would become.
Yes they do.But a lot more use it as a stick to beat people whose opinions they dislike.UKIP isn't anything like Nazi Germany so let's not pretend it is.It's a one man show and it will fail to win a single seat in parliament for the reason that JWM underlines,he is going to desert them for Dave.
The vast majority of "racism" is caused by those who are invited to the party and then decide to trash the house.
Errr have you read some of the things Ukip reps have come out with?
Forcibly terminating pregnancies, no that's nothing like the nazis
Same as the far right extreme groups that are bandied together with Ukip that farage is vice president of....
The Nazis started off very much like Ukip, financial crisis of the 20s and 30s they then scape goated Johnny foreigner as the problem (and of course Jews) . It's the first step in a very slippery slope towards potentially what happened then. Ukip at the moment are not like the nazis (obviously) but read the things some of their members are saying if you cannot see the potential you're an idiot. I expect in the 30s no one in Germany thought it would end up how it did.
Learn history or be doomed to repeat it!
No they're nothing like the nazis at all
Forcibly terminating pregnancies, no that's nothing like the nazis
Same as the far right extreme groups that are bandied together with Ukip that farage is vice president of....
The Nazis started off very much like Ukip, financial crisis of the 20s and 30s they then scape goated Johnny foreigner as the problem (and of course Jews) . It's the first step in a very slippery slope towards potentially what happened then. Ukip at the moment are not like the nazis (obviously) but read the things some of their members are saying if you cannot see the potential you're an idiot. I expect in the 30s no one in Germany thought it would end up how it did.
Learn history or be doomed to repeat it!
No they're nothing like the nazis at all
Branding people as Stupid for disagreeing with you is hardly going to win the arguerment!
Oil revenues - up for debate - probably Scotland
Defence - it wouldn't really need to, though there would probably be a combined force
Sterling - no
Debt - would need to be negotiated, but a starting point would likely be pro rata per capita
Tuition - not sure - I would imagine so
Corporation tax - can't comment, if they govern themselves it's really up to them
Tax breaks - as part of the break-up, these would presumably be transferred. Not really a major worry in the grand scheme of things
Branding people as Stupid for disagreeing with you is hardly going to win the arguerment!
I don't think Superman branded people as stupid for disagreeing with him.
He branded people as stupid for using it as a protest vote.
A "no" vote was as much a protest as voting for a party you don't believe in. I abstained - none of the parties appealed to me and as much as voting for UKIP would have been a big finger to the Tories, Labour and LibDems I couldn't bring myself to do it so I saved myself some diesel and didn't bother voting.
J
JKCanary
Guest
Could've voted 'blank': http://www.blankvote.org.uk/blank_votes_count.html
They're counted after all.
EDIT: it annoys me (not necessarily directed at anyone on here by the way) when people harp on about protest voting - in this case for UKIP - and cite lack of alternative options. There ARE alternative options, just take off your blinkers and have a bloody look for them!
Cool - I was not aware of this JK. I'll consider this option next year in the General if the "big three" haven't spruced up their act and got some decent policies in their manifestoes.