OT - UKIP, surely we can do betterthan this

[Norfolkbhoy]

Surely I cant be the only one dismayed to learn that the East region (of which both Norwich and Ipswich are part) has returned 3 of our 7 MEP's from UKIP a party based broadly on the matra of blaming Johnny Foreigner for all the ill's of the UK.

Apparently Great Yarmouth is a hotbed for the wonderful haters of non-Anglo Saxons and considered to be one of their prime targets for the general election.

I find it tremendously sad that so many people (who I am sure are otherwise pretty sensible) see UKIP as a viable alternative. If nothing else the more moderate parties should heed these results and get their act together before things get totally out of hand and Farrage and his pals actually gain some real power.

Before signing up to UKIP I wonder how many people considered the fact that since WW2 the existance of the EU and similar organisations has left us with the longest period of peace between the major European powers in a millenium? How many of us came from immigrant families at some stage in our past? How rich a culture we enjoy in the UK due largely to the assimilation of the best parts of many cultures.

If anyone wants to see how great mono-culture is try taking a trip to North Korea.

Even our own fair city of Norwich has a rich tradition of non-confirmance and assimilation - much of the wealth of the city was built up as a result of the "strangers" fleeing religious persectuion and coming to our shores from Flanders, Norfolks Broads were built on Dutch engineering exptertise. Even the Americans in their air bases brought us jazz, blues and then Rock and Roll.

I find it despicable that people blame EU migrants for taking "their" jobs. If you are unemplyed and genuinely want a job then don't complain, simply apply for it. If you're good enough, you'll get it. In many respects we are blessed with the best and brightest of the EU coming to our shores - how many Polish/Spanish/Portuguese doctors and dentists look after our families? The migrants we get tend to be the ones capable of getting off their backsides, travelling to another country, learning another language and culture just to earn a living for their families. For me these people are to be lauded, not condemed.

Some people will happily criticise migrants for taking benefits but then fail to mention that this represents a small fraction of the total benefits bill the vast majority of which is taken up by born and bred Brits.

I truly hope that we do not have a repeat of Thetford's shameful attack on Portuguese business after Ronaldo and Co knocked us out of the last tournament but I honestly fear the worst. If I were Italian and had a business in Thetford or Yarmoouth I'd be investing in some steel shutters and platinum grade insurance

I know that the EU and the conventional parties have many, many faults but surely we can all do better than UKIP?

 

[JKCanary]

I wondered when a UKIP-related thread would crop up on here.

*puts on tin hat*


(Good luck mods!)

 

[oldcanariesfan]

We can all abstain - all politicians are as bad as each other and are only in it for themselves and not the people they are supposed to represent.

I didn't vote as The Monster Raving Loony Party didn't put up a candidate - if they had I'd have voted for them.

Not wishing to condone anything UKIP say or do or what they stand for, but if their rise forces the "big three" parties in the UK to wake their asses up then that can only be a good thing.

Just wait for the Scots to vote for independence next and then we'll see more lame diatribes from the gobs of Cameron, Milliband and Clegg (assuming he's still in charge).

Politics - as the General says "Bah"

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[ColkOfTheBarclay]

Because it's easier for all the jobless arse hats to blame foreigners rather that actually try and sort their own lives out.

UKIP are a dangerous annoyance who have jumped on the indifference felt towards the main parties but I get the feeling that the majority of the voters last week only voted because UKIP made it so public. I can only hope that when real elections come around those that have lost faith in Labour and the Conservatives will vote for anyone other than UKIP.

 

[THURNBY CANARY]

Norfolkbhoy, I would have agreed with you fully a few years ago but while I did not waste my shoe leather to go and vote for any of the parties, I do feel that someone has to stand up for decency and the indigenous population. I have just been to Copenhagen and the Danish people are known to be very liberal and embracing but their patience has been pushed to the limit as their Government is looking to ban pork from the schools and this again has resulted in a political backlash. Pork is something of a national favourite meat, particularly pulled pork so not a clever move.
I have the misfortune to live on the edge of Leicester and so I see a lot more problems on a day to day basis than you would in East Anglia and everyone around here is sick to death of being taken for granted and ignored by the mainstream parties. Farage is an idiot and his main supporters are lunatics (Cameron's definition is not far off in my opinion) but I think we hope that this electoral kicking may have the desired impact on the establishment. I doubt it, but they have been warned.

 

[stilljaroldcanary]

Cant bring myself to vote for any of them as Millaband Clegg and Cameron are just clones with different coloured ties and not a damn clue about the stresses of the normal life. If this UKIP stuff wakes them up to start realising there are issues to be faced rather than line their own pockets then its a good thing

Bring back Guy Fawkes I say !

 

[1950canary]

Cant bring myself to vote for any of them as Millaband Clegg and Cameron are just clones with different coloured ties and not a damn clue about the stresses of the normal life. If this UKIP stuff wakes them up to start realising there are issues to be faced rather than line their own pockets then its a good thing

Bring back Guy Fawkes I say !

Just a couple of quick simple questions

a) How are these 3 gentlemen lining their pockets when they could all earn a lot more in the private sector and work less hours?

b) What are the issues you refer to and what solutions are you asking them to put forward to get your vote?

 

[Kent canary]

I can see a lot of the appeal. Ukip have a clear message about controlling imigration. If I worked in a field where I either hadn't got a job or my wages were being depressed by foreign workers, I could see nothing done to raise my standards of living by either the current or previous government.

As it is I think Ukip have a range of dangerous policies that aren't fully being scrutinised to the extent they should. We live in interesting times.

 

[Hucks for Manager!]

I can see a lot of the appeal. Ukip have a clear message about controlling imigration. If I worked in a field where I either hadn't got a job or my wages were being depressed by foreign workers, I could see nothing done to raise my standards of living by either the current or previous government.

As it is I think Ukip have a range of dangerous policies that aren't fully being scrutinised to the extent they should. We live in interesting times.

More than that, they have an incredibly dangerous man in charge of them.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

stewart lee summed up my thoughts:

"A lot of people have been saying that they're voting UKIP as a protest vote, which I sort of understand, but don't vote for them, vote for someone nice like the Greens, or some silly, amusing party like the Monster Raving Loony Party or the Liberal Democrats

But people voting for UKIP as a protest vote, I just don't get it. They're a mean, nasty party and they might get in! What kind of protest is that?

That's like taking a **** in your hotel bed as a protest against the bad service, then realising you've now got to sleep in the ****ted bed."

 

[JKCanary]

stewart lee summed up my thoughts:

"A lot of people have been saying that they're voting UKIP as a protest vote, which I sort of understand, but don't vote for them, vote for someone nice like the Greens, or some silly, amusing party like the Monster Raving Loony Party or the Liberal Democrats

But people voting for UKIP as a protest vote, I just don't get it. They're a mean, nasty party and they might get in! What kind of protest is that?

That's like taking a **** in your hotel bed as a protest against the bad service, then realising you've now got to sleep in the ****ted bed."

On that note, I urge you to watch this (10mins long, but well worth it. It's brilliant). I love Stewart Lee:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/20/stewart-lee-paul-nuttall-ukip_n_5357513.html

 

[Bath-Canary]

I can see a lot of the appeal. Ukip have a clear message about controlling imigration. If I worked in a field where I either hadn't got a job or my wages were being depressed by foreign workers, I could see nothing done to raise my standards of living by either the current or previous government.

As it is I think Ukip have a range of dangerous policies that aren't fully being scrutinised to the extent they should. We live in interesting times.

UKIP like the green party and, in the last election, the liberal democrats have the luxury of the fact that they will never be asked to form a government, this means when they write a manifesto there is no need for the numbers to add up or for the promises to be practical as there's little to no danger of them being tested. The Lib Dems got massively caught out by promising a lot of populist things which the reality was they could never finance or implement but saying they would produced interest and got them some votes. A great example of this University Fees it was borderline impossible not to raise them and the lib deems got caught out for saying they wouldn't do it.
This is what UKIP is and what they are doing is talking loudly by never actually doing anything however there thing that they say are ringing true with people, as has been said people find it easier to blame others for the fact that things haven't worked out so well than taking the responsibility themselves. There is a level of discontent in tho country and UKIP have exposed it, not surprising that this level of discontent is coming after a recession with unemployment having only recently returned to an "Acceptable" level*

Generally this is the reason that people say that all politicians are the same, there only so much that can be done in 4/5 year with limited finances and Labour and the Conservatives have to promise within that structure as they are the two partied who are actually going to have to mean what they say. The other parties role in the electoral system is pretty much to do what happening, spark a genuine debate about certain issues which can only be good for the country. A national discussion like the one were having at the moment is far better than letting the anger bubble under the surface only for it to lead to violence. I don't for one minute feel that UKIP voters are inherently racist or lazy, largely i think they feel a bit scared and a bit forgotten in there own country and UKIP gives then a voice, I also doubt very much that now this point has been made that the UKIP vote will be anywhere close to this at the next election. We need to let it run its course participate in the discussion and maybe fix somethings that are broken about our system and country that we would rather pre tent weren't there.

*Obviously the ideal level is 0% but that never happens

Disclaimer: I am as I'm sure many people have guessed from my previous political posts a Conservative voter, i don't think this post is terrible biased one way or another but may well be coloured by that, for which I'm unapologetic.

 

[Bath-Canary]

stewart lee summed up my thoughts:

"A lot of people have been saying that they're voting UKIP as a protest vote, which I sort of understand, but don't vote for them, vote for someone nice like the Greens, or some silly, amusing party like the Monster Raving Loony Party or the Liberal Democrats

But people voting for UKIP as a protest vote, I just don't get it. They're a mean, nasty party and they might get in! What kind of protest is that?

That's like taking a **** in your hotel bed as a protest against the bad service, then realising you've now got to sleep in the ****ted bed."

They won't, even is that level of voting carried over to the general election, and most Polls show that only half of the people who voted are even considering doing it at a general election, there would still only managed to get a few seats, as there popularity is fairly spread out. Bet the lib deems are glad they didn't get the proportional representation they wanted now.

 

[DHCanary]

JK, as soon as I heard Stewart Lee mentioned I was off to find that clip, you beat me to it!

I think part of the problem in the last election is that all the mainstream parties seem like different shades of beige, with no clear answers to the problems ordinary people are facing. Everything is said in "politics-speak" which people are sick of. Along comes someone with their perfected "friend from the pub" look promising a bright future on the back of simple changes, and you can see why people take to them.

Hopefully the main parties will take this as a wake-up call, and actively defend our EU involvement with more than just rhetoric, and remote some of the crap from politics that people are fed up of.

Voting for UKIP in European elections is particularly irritating to me because, as far as I'm aware, they blanket vote against anything the EU try to do, in protest to our involvement. All that does is weaken our position in Europe and mean we get less out of it - which is of course what they want.

 

[canary_max]

seen stewart lee live, he is very good

back to the op, the parts of the country where ukip scored highly were Wales, the manchester / leeds area and a lot of the coastal areas, so East Anglia, Kent, the North East coast and the south west. it was in the paper today. this is interesting.

i disagree with a party that seems to have only one policy, and agreed with stewart lee's comments.
although to be fair it could be worse - the Front National in France - there version of the BNP

 

[johnnywarksmoustache]

I have voted Conservative all my life and I have now voted UKIP for the first time!

All three main stream parties deserved a good kicking for their complacency and contempt for large parts of the electorate who feel that their own views and concerns are not being adequately addressed. This is what a democracy is all about and we have now entered a very exciting and interesting period in British politics!

 

[DHCanary]

I have voted Conservative all my life and I have now voted UKIP for the first time!

All three main stream parties deserved a good kicking for their complacency and contempt for large parts of the electorate who feel that their own views and concerns are not being adequately addressed. This is what a democracy is all about and we have now entered a very exciting and interesting period in British politics!

As Supers posted above, if it's a protest vote against the mainstream parties, why UKIP rather than Green, Pirate, etc? It'd still be taking share away from the main parties. And would you then vote UKIP in the next general election?

(Feel free to ignore this if you wish, no worries!)

 

[ColkOfTheBarclay]

I have voted Conservative all my life and I have now voted UKIP for the first time!

All three main stream parties deserved a good kicking for their complacency and contempt for large parts of the electorate who feel that their own views and concerns are not being adequately addressed. This is what a democracy is all about and we have now entered a very exciting and interesting period in British politics!

But UKIP is the complete wrong way to go about it. They are no better than the main parties. They are dated in their ideas and their only real policy is to leave the EU which would help in no way resolve the major problems in this country!

If you want to send a message, vote Green, at least they have progressive ideas and are looking to go back towards welfare and government for the people rather than government for the politicians!

 

[K E M P]

The reason UKIP are becoming popular is that they are appealing to the normal working people of this country. The ones all the other political parties have been ignoring for decades.

It's worse now though as the public have wanted a yes/no vote on the EU for years and UKIP are offering that.

Serves the main parties right if you ask me, they have been ignoring the working of this country for years and now the voice is getting louder and louder. They have become complacent and up their own arses.

Farage, for all his is and isn't has more charisma than the other 3 main party leaders put together. He certainly ripped Nick Clegg a new one on the televised debate and has virtually made Clegg's position untenable and I would go far as to say that the Liberal Democrats are finished as a political party until they separate with the conservatives. This is what you get when you ignore your electorate, a kick up the arse.

My business relies on trade from within the EU as does a lot so I for one do not want the union to end, but the people of the UK and EU as a whole have been ignored for years whilst fat cat politicians line their pockets and take the cream of the top.

I'm not going to say who I voted for as I treat it as a private matter but I can certainly see why this has happened and won't be standing on my soap box and judging anyone if they did vote for UKIP.

 

[danary]

I have voted Conservative all my life and I have now voted UKIP for the first time!

All three main stream parties deserved a good kicking for their complacency and contempt for large parts of the electorate who feel that their own views and concerns are not being adequately addressed. This is what a democracy is all about and we have now entered a very exciting and interesting period in British politics!

So what specifically do you think is going to change for the better as a result of this?