Don't agree Jocky. just don't agree.

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Ivan Dobsky

Ivan Dobsky

GC Thread Terminator
May 23, 2011
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Hansen on MoTD saying the season ended in failure as, after the City game, we 'only' had to win our last four games to win the league. Maybe the great one is more disappointed than most because, despite his early season predictions of City and Chelsea winning the league, he blew his wad after the City game and said it would be Liverpool. But that would have meant winning FOURTEEN games on the bounce - did even any of the Liverpool teams you played in manage that, Alan? After that game in April City dropped only two more points in six games; we dropped five in the same period.

They were just the better side, Alan.

Anyway, my end of season rankings and review.

Mignolet: 7 Warmed to him in the end. Got more commanding in the last three games as the defence around him fell to bits. Needs to be more bossy and assertive.

Johnson: 5 Oh dear, and a couple of seasons ago I was his biggest supporter (especially during the Euros two years ago when he was England's best defender). Came back from the early season injury against United a yard slower and is really showing his age. Embarrassing during that last fifteen minutes against Palace when his legs went.

Flanagan: 7 Was improving every game up until @ the last six games, then went backwards a bit, but ends the season as our first choice r/b in my book, and an option for l/b cover should we not improve in that area.

Skrtel: 8 Our best defender this season, but looked iffy in the last five/six games. Still a great improvement considering that he was persona non-grata at the beginning of the season. Needs to be more commanding and authoritative though.

Sakho: 6 Wins headers at set pieces, but is caught square on the ground. One to be persisted with, but needs to play alongside a leader. Another season should tell us whether he has it or not.

Lucas: 6 Looked better when Gerrard wasn't in the side, such as the Spurs away game. Much prefer to see Allen in the role henceforth. Squad player from now onwards at best.

Coutinho: 8 Love him, though he tires often and frustrates against parked buses sometimes. The pass for Studge's second against Arsenal was my highlight of the season. Sublime player.

Henderson: 8 The most improved midfielder in the league? Would have been 9 but for the atrocious tackle on Nasri that cost us more than it cost City.

Allen: 7 So impressed this last few months, and he can replace Lucas for my money. Didn't rate him, but I've seen the light.

Gerrard: 9 So nearly, so nearly. Fantastic penalties, quarter-back passes and leadership. I was one who suggested the Pirlo role - how about centre-back? Maybe try him out in early CC games? Just a thought.

Sterling: 9 So much more now than merely a winger. World's at you feet, young man.

Studge: 8 carried the attack early season and came back in January/Feb after injury like a ****ing hurricane. Not right at the end of the season, and needs a rest before the next season. Needs to be rotated, especially with CL football next year. We need another top class striker, not JUST defenders.

Suarez: 9 The early season ban may have been a blessing as he exploded onto the scene. Looked exhausted in the last four/five games. Hope he gets a damn good rest after the WC, and it's so important that we're not in qualifiers next season. Hope he stays, but if he doesn't I pray there's a plan not to do a Spurs with his transfer fee.

The others:

Agger: 6 Possibly his last season and he's been a good servant, but if the Italians still want him we have to be ruthless and get his big wages off the bill considering his constant injuries.

Toure: 5 Age is showing in pace and decision making. Another whose wages we can do without.

Cissokho: 5 Just not the answer, but thanks for the effort.

Aspas; 4 How deceptive was that great pre-season? Woeful.

Moses; Not giving him a mark as it'll drag down the squad average. After the Swansea away game I thought he'd be an asset. Sure Jose got to him when he realised we'd be a threat.

All the others didn't play enough to be judged, but I have hopes for Tex, and Wisdom too when when he comes back.

Rodgers:9 Okay, so the defence is a shambles and we'll be in for a culture shock in the CL next season, but hang on - considering we can't go out and buy the squads of the sizes of City, Chelsea and United (or even Spurs) how else do we differentiate ourselves? Attacking, high speed pass-and-move will have some continental teams thinking twice about all out attack at their places, knowing Sterling, Henderson, Studge, Coutinho and Suarez can rip you apart on their day. Should be an interesting experience for all, but, considering we're not seeded, I'll see what group we're in before making predictions in the CL. Nevertheless, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater Brendan, and remember that there's only City and possibly Arsenal that can do what we do when on form (okay, and Everton too). Learn to tighten up and park the bus occasionally, but don't lose sight of the fact that we're first and foremost an attacking team.

Great season. Disappointing end, but that's only because our hopes became astronomical in the last month. To me the highlights were White Hart Lane, Arsenal at home (and Everton), and City at home. They were important as some wiseacres were saying we were flat track bullies at home.

And out of 38 games we were only outplayed in a handful of them: Soton at home; Arsenal away; maybe Hull away in the second half; Chelsea in the first half at Stamthug Bridge; and City for the first thirty minutes of the second half at Anfield. Great, great progress that; and let's hope we don't now go backwards like we did the previous times we came second in 2002 and 2009. I really don't think we will.
 
Most teams would win the league if they won 14 games in a row.

In fact no team has ever won 14 games in a row and not won the league.
 
Our team plays best when it is fielded in a compact quicksilver way. Thus we got our best wins.

BR began experimenting with expansive stretched out formations after we failed to break down a few bus parking teams. For me, our solution to bus parking opponents is not to stretch ourselves out, nor to invite the opponent to our half with our CBs passing it backwards and sideways.

The solution is to remain compact and quick, as ever, by moving upfield with a high defensive line, and always deploying Sterling on the wing. Coutinho should always start at CM or ACM, and may be subbed if winded in the last half hour.
 
donga darko said:
Hansen on MoTD saying the season ended in failure as, after the City game, we 'only' had to win our last four games to win the league. Maybe the great one is more disappointed than most because, despite his early season predictions of City and Chelsea winning the league, he blew his wad after the City game and said it would be Liverpool. But that would have meant winning FOURTEEN games on the bounce - did even any of the Liverpool teams you played in manage that, Alan? After that game in April City dropped only two more points in six games; we dropped five in the same period.

They were just the better side, Alan.

Anyway, my end of season rankings and review.

Mignolet: 7 Warmed to him in the end. Got more commanding in the last three games as the defence around him fell to bits. Needs to be more bossy and assertive.

Johnson: 5 Oh dear, and a couple of seasons ago I was his biggest supporter (especially during the Euros two years ago when he was England's best defender). Came back from the early season injury against United a yard slower and is really showing his age. Embarrassing during that last fifteen minutes against Palace when his legs went.

Flanagan: 7 Was improving every game up until @ the last six games, then went backwards a bit, but ends the season as our first choice r/b in my book, and an option for l/b cover should we not improve in that area.

Skrtel: 8 Our best defender this season, but looked iffy in the last five/six games. Still a great improvement considering that he was persona non-grata at the beginning of the season. Needs to be more commanding and authoritative though.

Sakho: 6 Wins headers at set pieces, but is caught square on the ground. One to be persisted with, but needs to play alongside a leader. Another season should tell us whether he has it or not.

Lucas: 6 Looked better when Gerrard wasn't in the side, such as the Spurs away game. Much prefer to see Allen in the role henceforth. Squad player from now onwards at best.

Coutinho: 8 Love him, though he tires often and frustrates against parked buses sometimes. The pass for Studge's second against Arsenal was my highlight of the season. Sublime player.

Henderson: 8 The most improved midfielder in the league? Would have been 9 but for the atrocious tackle on Nasri that cost us more than it cost City.

Allen: 7 So impressed this last few months, and he can replace Lucas for my money. Didn't rate him, but I've seen the light.

Gerrard: 9 So nearly, so nearly. Fantastic penalties, quarter-back passes and leadership. I was one who suggested the Pirlo role - how about centre-back? Maybe try him out in early CC games? Just a thought.

Sterling: 9 So much more now than merely a winger. World's at you feet, young man.

Studge: 8 carried the attack early season and came back in January/Feb after injury like a ****ing hurricane. Not right at the end of the season, and needs a rest before the next season. Needs to be rotated, especially with CL football next year. We need another top class striker, not JUST defenders.

Suarez: 9 The early season ban may have been a blessing as he exploded onto the scene. Looked exhausted in the last four/five games. Hope he gets a damn good rest after the WC, and it's so important that we're not in qualifiers next season. Hope he stays, but if he doesn't I pray there's a plan not to do a Spurs with his transfer fee.

The others:

Agger: 6 Possibly his last season and he's been a good servant, but if the Italians still want him we have to be ruthless and get his big wages off the bill considering his constant injuries.

Toure: 5 Age is showing in pace and decision making. Another whose wages we can do without.

Cissokho: 5 Just not the answer, but thanks for the effort.

Aspas; 4 How deceptive was that great pre-season? Woeful.

Moses; Not giving him a mark as it'll drag down the squad average. After the Swansea away game I thought he'd be an asset. Sure Jose got to him when he realised we'd be a threat.

All the others didn't play enough to be judged, but I have hopes for Tex, and Wisdom too when when he comes back.

Rodgers:9 Okay, so the defence is a shambles and we'll be in for a culture shock in the CL next season, but hang on - considering we can't go out and buy the squads of the sizes of City, Chelsea and United (or even Spurs) how else do we differentiate ourselves? Attacking, high speed pass-and-move will have some continental teams thinking twice about all out attack at their places, knowing Sterling, Henderson, Studge, Coutinho and Suarez can rip you apart on their day. Should be an interesting experience for all, but, considering we're not seeded, I'll see what group we're in before making predictions in the CL. Nevertheless, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater Brendan, and remember that there's only City and possibly Arsenal that can do what we do when on form (okay, and Everton too). Learn to tighten up and park the bus occasionally, but don't lose sight of the fact that we're first and foremost an attacking team.

Great season. Disappointing end, but that's only because our hopes became astronomical in the last month. To me the highlights were White Hart Lane, Arsenal at home (and Everton), and City at home. They were important as some wiseacres were saying we were flat track bullies at home.

And out of 38 games we were only outplayed in a handful of them: Soton at home; Arsenal away; maybe Hull away in the second half; Chelsea in the first half at Stamthug Bridge; and City for the first thirty minutes of the second half at Anfield. Great, great progress that; and let's hope we don't now go backwards like we did the previous times we came second in 2002 and 2009. I really don't think we will.
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we didn't need to win the last 4... we only needed to not chase a game naively v cheslea and take the 0-0
 
lol we didn't win the title because we won 11 games in a row not 14 in a row? And as a result the season is a failure. What a ******ed note to end Hansen's MOTD career on
 
Livtor said:
Our team plays best when it is fielded in a compact quicksilver way. Thus we got our best wins.

BR began experimenting with expansive stretched out formations after we failed to break down a few bus parking teams. For me, our solution to bus parking opponents is not to stretch ourselves out, nor to invite the opponent to our half with our CBs passing it backwards and sideways.

The solution is to remain compact and quick, as ever, by moving upfield with a high defensive line, and always deploying Sterling on the wing. Coutinho should always start at CM or ACM, and may be subbed if winded in the last half hour.
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Your analysis and hence solution is just totally wrong. Stay your side of the Atlantic please!
 
A bottling question, how many times have United bottled it when the title got decided on the last game\day?

I know of two, Blackburn winning the League and City on goal difference, two massive bottle jobs against West ham and Sunderland respectively, any others?
 
saintanton said:
We were doing ok against Chelsea until Stevie's error.
We only conceded a largely irrelevant second (in the 94th minute) through chasing the game.
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Could have been worse, Torres could have scored rather than putting it on a plate for Willian <yikes>
 
saintanton said:
We were doing ok against Chelsea until Stevie's error.
We only conceded a largely irrelevant second (in the 94th minute) through chasing the game.
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yes but.........

I do feel we were over committed for most of the game and playing too many panicky iffy balls that chelsea mopped up.

gerrard took his eye of the ball in the 46th minute looking at the obvious long pass he was going to play and let it under his foot. fine crap happens.... things you cannot legislate for but the reality is in the 46th minute the rest of the team were all up the pitch looking to score rather than just sitting and playing out the half. we chased rather than say to cheslea... you want to play that game great we'll take the point too.... if you are not chasing you sit back in the last 5 of the half and just control and so you are not looking 60 yards up the pitch already playing the pass in your head and making the resultant error.

the second was just everyone chasing which at that point was ok... however what i saw was gerrard taking 10 pot shots which were all piss poor trying to attone rather than sitting back in not panicking and playing his game. we only got in behind at the wings once which was criminal despite all our chasing.

clam heads

this is exactly what i said of mingolet v west ham... why in the 45th minute are you f'n trying to catch the thing when a good fist would have cleared the danger and the ref would have blown up for half time.... since then he's flapped at a lot and not caught much fo anything and just punch and slapped at the ball... again calm head both before error (prenvents) and after error focuses on the right game to play and that gets results.



.................
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
yes but.........

I do feel we were over committed for most of the game and playing too many panicky iffy balls that chelsea mopped up.

gerrard took his eye of the ball in the 46th minute looking at the obvious long pass he was going to play and let it under his foot. fine crap happens.... things you cannot legislate for but the reality is in the 46th minute the rest of the team were all up the pitch looking to score rather than just sitting and playing out the half. we chased rather than say to cheslea... you want to play that game great we'll take the point too.... if you are not chasing you sit back in the last 5 of the half and just control and so you are not looking 60 yards up the pitch already playing the pass in your head and making the resultant error.

the second was just everyone chasing which at that point was ok... however what i saw was gerrard taking 10 pot shots which were all piss poor trying to attone rather than sitting back in not panicking and playing his game. we only got in behind at the wings once which was criminal despite all our chasing.

clam heads

this is exactly what i said of mingolet v west ham... why in the 45th minute are you f'n trying to catch the thing when a good fist would have cleared the danger and the ref would have blown up for half time.... since then he's flapped at a lot and not caught much fo anything and just punch and slapped at the ball... again calm head both before error (prenvents) and after error focuses on the right game to play and that gets results.



.................
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Can't agree with the West Ham thing. He didn't try to catch the ball, he did catch the ball. Having it in his own hands is far safer than trusting to some random deflection.

The fact he ws punched in the head and then had the ball illegally knocked out of his hands changes nothing. You can't legislate for referees not applying he rules. I don't want the team practising beachball-clearing drills and giving up on trying to play balls in behind the defence in case the linesman wrongly calls offside.
 
astroturfnaut said:
Can't agree with the West Ham thing. He didn't try to catch the ball, he did catch the ball. Having it in his own hands is far safer than trusting to some random deflection.

The fact he ws punched in the head and then had the ball illegally knocked out of his hands changes nothing. You can't legislate for referees not applying he rules. I don't want the team practising beachball-clearing drills and giving up on trying to play balls in behind the defence in case the linesman wrongly calls offside.
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eh.... f the ball hit the ground it just goes to show....

in the 45th minute there was a great old axiom... as carragher used to say "lose it"

safety first means that coming in a crowd for a catch you just get it out of there.

my point is all about control. when its so close to half time you control it. we sometimes do this well sometimes not. Had gerrard been in the mode of thinking I'm just hitting this one on to skertl not Lets loos up and pick out a raking pass to johnson who's 40 yards up pitch in the 46th minute too... I feel the same about mingolet.. catch it i nthe 30th minute. you should be aware that if you just get distance on this one its half time... then clear house.


sure the ref ballsed it up. whatever... sure gerrard just made a mistake... fine but if you are in control you know what the time is you are not chasing things when frnakly you shoudl be shutting up shope... and by that i do not mean retreating to your 18 yard box and just defending for the last 5 mins.. I mean genuinely playing it about making the other side work... just be in control.. don't make a stupid run beyond them when you are the full back. let sterling do that, don't be seeing suarez drop of to the half way line then throw in a crazy or sloppy lay off that puts a team mate under horrendous pressure... thats why i call it naive.

we score most goals early going at sides with pace it seems then we can control it for so long but we lose our shap and control. I think with EXPERIENCE and a bit more direct planning and drilling home the message we can understnad the pahse of the game and control it better... mistakes will happen but i think we've had a huge amount of games where we've got away with this stuff (stoke 5-3, west ham 3-2, swansea, newcastle etc etc) or have dropped points newcastle away, swansea jsut to name a few.

Sometimes a side like say villa will come and just get at you or like hull you'll just play bad but i think we can improve on our game control and rodgers called this to my mind concentration. I think he's telling these guys how to control things but they are not always applying it.


conversely one could argue that mourinho is too controlling as he went to games like utd playing for a draw and got just that... and in the end they were a little short... I'm not arguing for a straight jacket I'm arguing for applying sensible game control and discipline. Rodgers could help that himself by just working some patterns for later in halfs and signalling things like just pulling fully backs in more and filling gaps while still proving and aggressive platform to attack off of, until its second nature (which it really ought to be to a glen johnson sadly)
 
There is no more control than having the ball in your GKs hands. There is no legal option for the opponent to do anything.

If you want a Mignolet mistake than his pass to Toure before Toure squared it to West Brom was far bigger. We had invited some pressure on us and then Toure had no one else on. I hope he thinks more about that than a succesful catch. We need to look 2-3 passes ahead.
 
johnsonsbaby said:
I actually respect Torres for that, maybe he does love us after all <smooch>
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Yeah, part of me wonders if he passed rather than shot out of respect for the club. Guess its something we'll never know. Of course, he could claim to have done that in a book later on but not sure anyone would believe him, especially with him celebrating the goal too.
 
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