Lost our identity?

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surgeryman

surgeryman

Active Member
Aug 17, 2011
754
31
28
A few miles outside Gt. Yarmouth
If you have not had the chance to see Russell Martins interview this week, you should.

He says we have as a club perhaps lost our identity over the last couple of years.

Very worrying if this is the case and needs sorting big time and quickly or we will be in the wilderness for a while.

How on earth has this been allowed to happen?
 
Daryl Sutch said exactly the same thing a while back and I agree it is worrying. We were always renowned for playing free-flowing, passing, attacking football which the late great John Bond introduced us to.
 
ThaiCanary said:
This is one of the main reasons I really like Rusty - he talks properly, not er, um every other word <ok>
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Yeah, I was impressed by what he said. Obviously hurting, which is good to see in some ways.

The only thing I do worry about with RUss is that he has has been found wanting at time at Prem level IMO. Should be fine at Championship level, which is what we need. Probably our next Drury.
 
If we are being perfectly honest then I think Championship IS our level,with occasional forays into the Prem.If you look at a lot of the teams in that division Forest,Blackburn,Bolton,Brum their status is comparable to ours.
 
surgeryman said:
Yeah, I was impressed by what he said. Obviously hurting, which is good to see in some ways.

The only thing I do worry about with RUss is that he has has been found wanting at time at Prem level IMO. Should be fine at Championship level, which is what we need. Probably our next Drury.
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I agree that he lacks pace to deal with speedy wingers, but can often make up for it by his 'reading' of the game. I imagine he'd be one of the players to stay and endeavour to get us back up to the PL, but we will need a replacement if/when we get promotion.
 
His words took a lot of courage to say. At least we have one player who is attempting to explain why we are in this mess. Can't imagine Bassong, Fer or RvW (and Hooper?) wanting to say what he did. I imagine there will be players who are relying on being picked up by present Prem sides or those coming up to the Prem to stay in this league. Not sure what the financial implications are in detail, but debt free and parachute payments will surely mean that we do not have to get rid of those who are deemed suitable for the Championship next season. The quicker Bassong leaves the better as far as I am concerned.
 
may i just make the case that i don't believe we've had 'an identity' for the best part of 20 years. we didn't really have an identity under lambert or worthington, our two most successful managers since then. when norwich are mentioned in the national press it always used to be as a pass and move side, one that was pleasing on the eye, and to a degree we still get described as a 'passing side' even though we've arguably not played that style of football (properly and effectively) since mike walker's second spell in charge when we played like that for about half a season before it all crumbled down due to injuries. if anything, the only identity you can place upon norwich is that its a 'family club', but on the pitch i haven't seen one for a long, long while, and i doubt we'll see one magically reappear any time soon either, not unless we fail to return to the top flight for a few years and have to cut our cloth at a much lower financial level, turning to youth - then we might see a sea change - i don't know.
 
Why is Bassong getting such a harsh time of it? He's been no worse or better than anyone else - really...this is a guy who was pots last time around - 12 months later and you are desperate to get rid. . He's struggled for form but the way some of you carry on is well over the top. A couple of months back it was Snods in the firing line..Again, absolute carp, players taking the fall for a manager who didn't have many ideas - and if I were Snods I wouldn't want to play for this club again, not after this season. And he's the kind of player who we could really do with next season.
 
My take on what he meant by "identity" was that there was a lack of consistency in how the team was set up to play, and possibly was the most critical thing he said about CH. it may be that it takes a longer time to develop that style, but Everton, Stoke, Palace changed their styles pretty bloody quickly. I thought I could see what CH was trying to achieve, but I think I was kidding myself. I don't think CH was courageous enough to just change the style wholesale. he seemed to tinker and try to gradually adjust, this created ambiguous messages for the players (and maybe they didn't implement it with enough conviction) and led to confusion. Whoever the new manager is, it seems critical that a "style" is imposed from the start.
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
may i just make the case that i don't believe we've had 'an identity' for the best part of 20 years. we didn't really have an identity under lambert or worthington, our two most successful managers since then. when norwich are mentioned in the national press it always used to be as a pass and move side, one that was pleasing on the eye, and to a degree we still get described as a 'passing side' even though we've arguably not played that style of football (properly and effectively) since mike walker's second spell in charge when we played like that for about half a season before it all crumbled down due to injuries. if anything, the only identity you can place upon norwich is that its a 'family club', but on the pitch i haven't seen one for a long, long while, and i doubt we'll see one magically reappear any time soon either, not unless we fail to return to the top flight for a few years and have to cut our cloth at a much lower financial level, turning to youth - then we might see a sea change - i don't know.
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I was thinking of making this point too. I never saw a game before Rioch (and only a few between him and Worthy), and I can never remember a distinctive style to our play. But with perhaps the exceptions of Swansea and Wigan, what teams out of the top half of the Prem can anyone point to that have a philosophy of play that guides managerial appointments, rather than managers bringing their style with them?
 
i think plenty of teams have had or currently have a philosophy or a 'brand' of football that they play. whether it be arsenal under wenger or stoke under pulis; there was a formula, a style. its not always to everyones taste but there is no right or wrong way to play the game - and if it works... it becomes their identity. i saw stoke a few times this season and they played some super stuff - but they are still labelled under the section 'hoofball' by many.

i think i and others long for the days of pass and move norwich sides who were both easy on the eye and effective (though not all the time), but its not straight forward to put into action and does take a special manager and certain circumstances to allow it.
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
may i just make the case that i don't believe we've had 'an identity' for the best part of 20 years. we didn't really have an identity under lambert or worthington, our two most successful managers since then. when norwich are mentioned in the national press it always used to be as a pass and move side, one that was pleasing on the eye, and to a degree we still get described as a 'passing side' even though we've arguably not played that style of football (properly and effectively) since mike walker's second spell in charge when we played like that for about half a season before it all crumbled down due to injuries. if anything, the only identity you can place upon norwich is that its a 'family club', but on the pitch i haven't seen one for a long, long while, and i doubt we'll see one magically reappear any time soon either, not unless we fail to return to the top flight for a few years and have to cut our cloth at a much lower financial level, turning to youth - then we might see a sea change - i don't know.
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Completely agree <ok>
 
Longsightcanary said:
My take on what he meant by "identity" was that there was a lack of consistency in how the team was set up to play, and possibly was the most critical thing he said about CH. it may be that it takes a longer time to develop that style, but Everton, Stoke, Palace changed their styles pretty bloody quickly. I thought I could see what CH was trying to achieve, but I think I was kidding myself. I don't think CH was courageous enough to just change the style wholesale. he seemed to tinker and try to gradually adjust, this created ambiguous messages for the players (and maybe they didn't implement it with enough conviction) and led to confusion. Whoever the new manager is, it seems critical that a "style" is imposed from the start.
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I agree completely with this, especially the stuff about ambiguous messages. In many games the players didn't seem to know quite what they were supposed to be doing. They appeared caught in the middle, feeling they should attack more but only very rarely having the confidence to go for it.
 
Hi bors, the style of play is dictated by the league you are in and the wages you can afford to pay the players. The passing game is perfect if like Man City you can afford to pay their wages. Man City are not a team to pass from one defender to another, then back to another defender. Their play is to attack and that they achieve with players that look to exploit their opponents weakness.

Not every club has Man City's financial resources but that doesn't mean we cannot compete with other clubs of a similar ilk in the PL. It first requires a board of directors that is totally committed to that objective. Being businessmen is ok but this is not business, this is football and calls for 100 per cent dedication to that cause even at the expense of their normal business interest, there is no halfway house to being a football director. That is just the start.

Next obviously is the liaison between the board and the team and here we are blessed with a man who knows his job. De nada.

Under the CEO is the manager and this is something the board should be addressing forthwith. If they are happy with NA then they should say so otherwise they should politely thank NA for stepping into the breach and start advertising for a manager stipulating the requirements they are wanting from applicants. The club cannot go forward until this issue has been determined so that plans can be made for our return to the PL. That is the priority.

It should be borne in mind that two other teams relegated have similar hopes as well as teams currently engaged in the play-offs, promotion is not automatic but as I said earlier we have a squad that should ensure promotion, it will depend a lot on who the board appoint as manager and if the board are prepared to back his judgment. That depends on who is appointed and the board gets it right. I'll go further and say that we didn't merit relegation if the outgoing manager had not been so preoccupied with defence at the expense of recruiting strike power.

The outgoing manager based his strategy on defence forgetting that you still need forwards to win games. A superb defence is ok but if you lack attacking skill the best you can hope for is a draw with the consequence that in gaining a draw you lose two points. That means two points lost, they can never be retrieved.

The ball is now in the board's court; as fans all we can do is now await their decision. Let's hope their deliberations result in our return to the PL at the first attempt. I am certain there will be no shortage of applicants for the manager's job, OTBC.
 
Hi Norkie, hope you are well.

You make some valid points, but regarding having a squad that should ensure promotion? Do you really believe we can keep the current squad together? I'd doubt that very much.
 
Gandy bor, they have contracts with the club. There will always be players like Steve Bruce and Robert Fleck who put their personal interest before the clubs. Players must be proud to wear the shirt and honour their contracts otherwise the club is better off than keeping players not committed to the cause. Thanks for the good wishes.

Like I said, we have a team good enough to regain our Pl status, obviously don't know player's personal contract details but feel they should not suffer financial loss for obeying orders they were issued.

Holty after release criticised club management, Wes went vocal and said (to quote) Norwich was an effing ****ehole . What prompted Wes to say that after years of good service. Becchio made similar remarks and Jed Steer even preferred to serve under PL than Hughton. All it needed was for someone to read between the lines.
 
NORKIE said:
Gandy bor, they have contracts with the club. There will always be players like Steve Bruce and Robert Fleck who put their personal interest before the clubs. Players must be proud to wear the shirt and honour their contracts otherwise the club is better off than keeping players not committed to the cause. Thanks for the good wishes.

Like I said, we have a team good enough to regain our Pl status, obviously don't know player's personal contract details but feel they should not suffer financial loss for obeying orders they were issued.

Holty after release criticised club management, Wes went vocal and said (to quote) Norwich was an effing ****ehole . What prompted Wes to say that after years of good service. Becchio made similar remarks and Jed Steer even preferred to serve under PL than Hughton. All it needed was for someone to read between the lines.
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Yes, agree pretty much with that. They were definitely not a happy bunch, and that showed only too well.

Here's hoping we can appoint someone who can restore some unity.
 
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