Gaston.

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He has not been anywhere near a flop, shown some flashes of a world class player.
If Gaston goes, could it send out a message to potential signings that Saints prefer their own produced players.
 
I trust Pochettino/whoever on this. I don't think we should be looking to sell as he's a good player and has a lot of potential.

At the same time, I don't consider him indispensable. We do have some promising academy players coming up, and it seems he may not fit MP's style of play. So if we get offered a really decent price for him I won't be angry if he is sold.
 
I always thought he had bags of talent, but he had trouble adapting to the EPL. He took too much time on the ball and often tried complicated passes and take-ons when a much simpler solution was needed. But he learned and improved a lot. I'd like to keep him.
 
We can't really afford to ship out too many "senior" players. At the moment it's hard to find room for him as a regular starter, but we've been fortunate this season to have Jay & Adz in great form and virtual ever presents.
We know if we want to progress up the league that we need greater depth in quality in the squad, so keeping someone like Gaston is important. I know Hesketh & Sims look like great prospects, but they've only just got into the u21s team.
 
Yes considering how thin our squad is we can't afford to sell any of our first team players. As we will be want to bring in a max of 2/3 players to avoid to much disruption over the summer to improve our first 11.
 
He has improved, (though that really is not saying much seeing as he was woeful last season). But for me he is still not the right type of player for us. Take a look at any of our players, and they all share the same passion and commitment, chasing down, winning tackles etc. If we have one luxury player then it means our system becomes more vulnerable and the other players have to work even harder. Therefore, any "luxury" we have on the pitch, needs to be turning out every week and putting in m.o.m performances. Ramirez doesn't. When he gets his 20 minute cameo at the end of a game, he should be running his bollocks off trying to impress the manager etc. But he never does. The fact that he occasionally produces a nice trick or pass only acts to infuriate even more.

The reason we destroyed Newcastle yesterday is because they seem to have a few too many of these players who are unwilling to put in a shift when necessary. Seeing the frustration on Gouffran's face as he watched his team mates skulking around was painful.

If you offered me a straight swap of Ramirez out, and Ings in, I would snap your hand off.
 
fatletiss said:
I don't know that I can say anything to that Black

#dumbfounded

##mindmadeuplongtimeback
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Why?!! Are you serious that you can't see the validity of an argument against Ramirez's worth???!!! Remind yourself how much he cost, and how much he gets paid every week, and then tell me that he has repaid that with his performances this season. If he was seriously as good as you all believe him to be, then why doesn't he get picked for the first team? He has started two league games this season. TWO!!!!!!! One of which was our worst performance of the season!!! I know he's had injuries, but even when he is fit he is not the bloody master magician that everyone seems to believe that he is. He just isn't. The qualities that he does have - believe me I do see them - are very much juxtaposed by the negative aspects of his game. For every cute pass, there is the inability to track back and tackle. For every neat little turn... ...etc etc. He should be our star player, and yet Davis and JWP are picked ahead of him, and rightly so. Trust me, I want him to be a success as much as the next fan, why wouldn't I ffs??!!! Why would I have some personal vendetta against him? But for me, he doesn't do enough to justify his cost/wages. Hopefully one day he will prove me wrong.
 
You would expect him to make more impact if you always consider his price, but we have spent money on other players who have made little impact for one reason or another (Tadanari Lee, Mayuka, Dani, Forren etc). Ignore his price...Gaston is under contract and is a midfield player who can step in when needed and is showing signs of coming good. How much would a replacement cost?
 
The reason he doesn't start games is that off the ball he doesn't play with the intensity that is required of the team. He's immensely talented and has showed that with superb passes countless times for us, but still the concern is that we carry him when not in possession. Because we need a deeper team next season I'm happy for him to stay, but I can only see him remaining a super sub unless he improves that side of his game by training really hard.
 
Hermes Bingberg said:
The reason he doesn't start games is that off the ball he doesn't play with the intensity that is required of the team. He's immensely talented and has showed that with superb passes countless times for us, but still the concern is that we carry him when not in possession. Because we need a deeper team next season I'm happy for him to stay, but I can only see him remaining a super sub unless he improves that side of his game by training really hard.
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I agree...if he is happy to stay playing cameo roles, then we have a place for him. He is talented, already here and familiar with our team. I have my doubts that he will ever turn into a Mauricio-type player, but I'm think he will be useful. We have made a lot of mistakes with players whilst unearthing gems...we know what we've got with Gaston.
 
Black said:
Why?!! Are you serious that you can't see the validity of an argument against Ramirez's worth???!!! Remind yourself how much he cost, and how much he gets paid every week, and then tell me that he has repaid that with his performances this season. If he was seriously as good as you all believe him to be, then why doesn't he get picked for the first team? He has started two league games this season. TWO!!!!!!! One of which was our worst performance of the season!!! I know he's had injuries, but even when he is fit he is not the bloody master magician that everyone seems to believe that he is. He just isn't. The qualities that he does have - believe me I do see them - are very much juxtaposed by the negative aspects of his game. For every cute pass, there is the inability to track back and tackle. For every neat little turn... ...etc etc. He should be our star player, and yet Davis and JWP are picked ahead of him, and rightly so. Trust me, I want him to be a success as much as the next fan, why wouldn't I ffs??!!! Why would I have some personal vendetta against him? But for me, he doesn't do enough to justify his cost/wages. Hopefully one day he will prove me wrong.
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as I keep saying on any player, cost is only the price we needed to play to sign them.

As for his worth, he has a value to the team... can't you see that?

The reason I wrote what I did was simply your view that he hasn't been showing the same passion and chasing down as the other players; utter rubbish Black. In all of his recent appearances he has chased and worked hard. There is no doubt that he hasn't fulfilled his potential for us, no argument there, but you seem to be saying he offers nothing and your original post, in my opinion, was wide of the mark.

You really make me laugh when you say he only occasionally creates a pass or whatever... he has looked very creative and lively in all his recent appearances, even the garbage the others served up at Spurs. And I also note how often he has tracked back and in one reason game was the last Saints player back (I can't remember the game). You see what you want to see.

The reason he isn't picked for the first team is because other players have performed well and kept him out, most notably JayRod,Adam and Steve Davis, probably his likely position.

Your post was just a negative dig at him that I felt unnecessary, so I responded.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
You would expect him to make more impact if you always consider his price, but we have spent money on other players who have made little impact for one reason or another (Tadanari Lee, Mayuka, Dani, Forren etc). Ignore his price...Gaston is under contract and is a midfield player who can step in when needed and is showing signs of coming good. How much would a replacement cost?
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Yes. But what happened with all of these players? We got rid of them. Sorry, but you can't ignore the fact that he is getting paid 50-60k every week to sit on the bench. You just can't. We're Southampton, not Chelsea.

Simply put, you have to ask yourself, "would Ramirez be in my starting eleven next week against Man City?" - The answer for me is "no". And the answer for Pochettino will also be "no".

Saying all this though, I'm still willing to give him one final chance; We have seven games remaining, with relatively little to play for. Ergo, throw Gaston in at the deep end and give him 2-3 full 90 minutes to see what he can do. And tell him directly; "Final chance, no excuses!" If he is able to impress - not just with pretty flicks etc - but with actual genuine work rate and commitment etc, then happy days. but anything less than this, then its time to get rid. And yes, we could definitely find a decent replacement for the recouped fee/wages.
 
Black said:
Yes. But what happened with all of these players? We got rid of them. Sorry, but you can't ignore the fact that he is getting paid 50-60k every week to sit on the bench. You just can't. We're Southampton, not Chelsea.

Simply put, you have to ask yourself, "would Ramirez be in my starting eleven next week against Man City?" - The answer for me is "no". And the answer for Pochettino will also be "no".

Saying all this though, I'm still willing to give him one final chance; We have seven games remaining, with relatively little to play for. Ergo, throw Gaston in at the deep end and give him 2-3 full 90 minutes to see what he can do. And tell him directly; "Final chance, no excuses!" If he is able to impress - not just with pretty flicks etc - but with actual genuine work rate and commitment etc, then happy days. but anything less than this, then its time to get rid. And yes, we could definitely find a decent replacement for the recouped fee/wages.
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When we have a run of bad games, will you be one of the people bemoaning that we don't have a plan B?

Also, think about what you are saying...... do we pick the team by the wage bill? No, so again, the wages/cost are irrelevant (to a degree - and that degree is that they are within our budget). If the budget was full and MP needed another player, he may decide to move Gaston on and bring that player in if it was a straight budgetary choice.

You'll be telling me Clyne must play next because he is paid more than Chambers.
 
Where's the evidence that he's on £50-60k? I thought the story was that he was on a paltry £10k at Bologna and we tripled it.
 
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