Poor Performance - Deserved Result

[royalbarclayfan]

It´s very easy to be wise after the event, but in my opinion there was nothing wrong in playing almost the same starting eleven as last week and asking them to carry on playing the same way as they did then. The fact that they didn´t was down to the players themselves as much as it was down to Hughton. Last week they were scintillating, first to every ball, first to every tackle, wanting to be involved, this week, shambles, no will to fight, no will to tackle, nothing. Once they cross that white line the players have to take responsibility, the fact that when we´re playing away, no-one does, has been apparent for the whole of this season. Neither Hughton nor any other manager can ´make´ a leader, leaders are either born or they´re not, and we haven´t had one since Holt left.

The way that we disintegrate once we go a goal down is appalling, but then we should be asking the players, in the same way as players like Tettey and Snodgrass have been asking themselves, just what it is that happens in their heads when they see (A) after a fixture, because until they find the answer to that particular conundrum, I fear these away horrors will continue, and they are the only ones who can put it right. A manager can instill as much belief into a player as he likes, but if the player himself still doesn´t believe, then he´s wasting his breath, and anyway, after the Sunderland game, the players shouldn´t have needed any building up of belief or boosting of confidence, they should have been brimful of it and raring to go.

I expected us to pick up at least a point today, and if the players had played even remotely close to how they did last week, I dare say we might have done, the fact that we didn´t just puts even more pressure on them to perform in our Home games, and pretty much means we´re going to have to break the tradition of a lifetime, and beat Fulham too.

Incorrigible optimist that I am, I still think there will be three teams worse off come May, but they´re not making it easy for themselves or us, and this is one defeat we could, and should have done without.

 

[Deleted member 1001498]

The difference I feel is simple, at home last week we went for the win, today we didn't, we tried to hold on for a draw, with predictable consequences.

 

[canarie-chippy]

I did say in a thread earlier this week that we couldn't start with the same team. Elmander needed to have been changed for Johnson so we had five in midfield to stop their passing game !
It's another epic balls up from our soon to be departed leader.

 

[royalbarclayfan]

Vet - I might just have been tempted to believe you if it had been a top of the table side we were meeting, and if we hadn´t just had a good win and performance the week before, but we had, and also the fact that it was Swansea, who we´ve had a psychological hold over for the last three seasons or so, there´s no way the players would have been sent out with instructions to play for a draw. Sorry, don´t believe it for one second.

and chippy - whether Elmander had started or Johnson or any other had started, it still doesn´t excuse a complete lack of application and will to compete. Personel and /or playing systems become immaterial when the players don´t put in a shift. They can put in a shift and compete at home, so there´s no excuse for not doing so away as well. There´s certainly no way you can heap all the blame onto Hughton´s shoulders again and completely absolve the players from responsibilty again.

 

[stilljaroldcanary]

9th best in division on home form total rubbish away
Tells me we have the players but not the right tactics
to beat a team which has to push for a result
in front of it's own fans

 

[royalbarclayfan]

9th best in division on home form total rubbish away
Tells me we have the players but not the right tactics
to beat a team which has to push for a result
in front of it's own fans

But after the Sunderland game jarold, where the players and the fans had been given a huge lift, if Hughton had then decided to pack midfield, try to stifle Swansea and steal whatever we could steal, the chances are we would still have lost. Then folk would have been decapitating him again for not sticking with a winning team and trying to compete, like I said it´s very easy to be wise after the event.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

Well, I just hope he plies his "wisdom" at another club next season (if any are dumb enough to want him), as on the basis of our 'performances' (alias no-shows) away at Villa, Southampton and now Swansea in recent weeks, he's clearly totally out of his depth - and worst of all, we're getting worse as the season progresses.
Who'd have thought that was possible after those early thumpings at Liverpool and Etihad

 

[GozoCanary]

But after the Sunderland game jarold, where the players and the fans had been given a huge lift, if Hughton had then decided to pack midfield, try to stifle Swansea and steal whatever we could steal, the chances are we would still have lost. Then folk would have been decapitating him again for not sticking with a winning team and trying to compete, like I said it´s very easy to be wise after the event.

I agree it was a difficult choice and I remember asking myself what would I do - play the same team and formation, or change it around because we were away from home? If we lost badly, as we did, CH was going to be slaughtered whichever choice he made.

Having said that, you know I'm an outer, and I really think most of the blame for our general current state must be laid at his door. He has had two years now. It's his team, his tactics, his players, his outlook, his approach, his philosophy. The buck really has to stop at his door.

 

[Deleted member 1001498]

RBF, maybe not sent out 'playing for a draw' but more of a cautious approach rather than a lets get in their faces and beat them approach, which I feel would have been the correct one. It is well known the players like playing for Hughton, also that they follow his guidance, I feel that they are probably following his instructions, thus giving teams too much respect away from home, sitting off them more, allowing them to play instead of imposing ourselves on them! I am not a 'Hughton outer' but I do believe he needs to instill in the team a mentality away from home the same as at home - we can beat anyone - (except Liverpool apparently)! ;-)

 

[Deleted member 1001498]

I also think the team selection was spot on, hence my musings that it is the application thats wrong!

 

[gruffnuts]

But after the Sunderland game jarold, where the players and the fans had been given a huge lift, if Hughton had then decided to pack midfield, try to stifle Swansea and steal whatever we could steal, the chances are we would still have lost. Then folk would have been decapitating him again for not sticking with a winning team and trying to compete, like I said it´s very easy to be wise after the event.

Did you watch the game? The formation obviously wasn't working, so you change it. That isn't being wise after the event rbf - that's a competent manager reacting to the game of football in front of him. We don't have one of those, which is why we are routinely embarrassed. That said, I can't be bothered going over all this again. Just want this season over.

Curious as to where you stood on PG , Roeder, Gunn and some of the other weapons we've had in charge.

 

[danary]

Did you watch the game? The formation obviously wasn't working, so you change it. That isn't being wise after the event rbf - that's a competent manager reacting to the game of football in front of him. We don't have one of those, which is why we are routinely embarrassed. That said, I can't be bothered going over all this again. Just want this season over.

Curious as to where you stood on PG , Roeder, Gunn and some of the other weapons we've had in charge.

I'm not Hughton's biggest fan but the comparison with these guys is hyperbolic. He is obviously far superior to all of these. None of them would have a chance in hell of getting us to an 11th place finish in the Premier League or masterminding wins over Man Utd or Arsenal.

Don't get me wrong, I think a change is needed, but some of the rhetoric used to express this is so over the top.

 

[Canary Rob]

And suggesting Hughton is a weapon is ridiculous. He's obviously a nice guy.

 

[canary-dave]

There is one important difference between the two camps!

When we play well both camps praise the players!

When we play badly the outers blame the manager, the inners blame the players and always will it be so!

 

[Fenland Canary]

CH did an excellent job for us last season, his tactics were good and we got some great results, why can't he string together a good performance when we play away this season?, or do you guys think he got some lucky results last season?

 

[royalbarclayfan]

I agree it was a difficult choice and I remember asking myself what would I do - play the same team and formation, or change it around because we were away from home? If we lost badly, as we did, CH was going to be slaughtered whichever choice he made.

Having said that, you know I'm an outer, and I really think most of the blame for our general current state must be laid at his door. He has had two years now. It's his team, his tactics, his players, his outlook, his approach, his philosophy. The buck really has to stop at his door.

I fully appreciate and understand that the buck stops with him, vietnam, and I´m not defending him for the sake of it, or deliberately trying not to see his faults, but I will always try and look at the bigger picture. I don´t profess to have all the answers, in fact I don´t actaully profess to have any of the answers. But one thing I´m sure about, is that Hughton is trying everything he can to get us out of this mess, and keep us up, because if he wasn´t, I guarantee the players would have mutinied a long, long time ago. While he does that I´ll back him every step of the way, one thing I do find hard to back though, is players, who one week play out of their skins, then the next week, look as if they don´t care.

and gruffnuts,

I´m always loyal to the manager, I can´t be any other way I´m afraid, and I think I was probably one of the last to be completely convinced of Roeder´s ineptitude, but as regards Grant and Gunn, I was in no doubt.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

I fully appreciate and understand that the buck stops with him, vietnam, and I´m not defending him for the sake of it, or deliberately trying not to see his faults, but I will always try and look at the bigger picture. I don´t profess to have all the answers, in fact I don´t actaully profess to have any of the answers. But one thing I´m sure about, is that Hughton is trying everything he can to get us out of this mess, and keep us up, because if he wasn´t, I guarantee the players would have mutinied a long, long time ago. While he does that I´ll back him every step of the way, one thing I do find hard to back though, is players, who one week play out of their skins, then the next week, look as if they don´t care.

Sorry, but that's a joke. If it were true, why would he take off Howson AND Hoolahan (and with any any possibility of some creative spark) rather than taking off Elmander and matching them 5 for 5 in the midfield we yielded time and time again without so much as a whimper?

Fair enough, we were already 2-0 down by that stage, but any sniff of getting a foothhold in the game disappeared into the dugout with those substitutions.

Bradders J may well be 'whole-hearted' but sadly he's way out of his depth in this division and was horribly exposed as such yesterday. Rob Newman Mk 2?

 

[CitySlicker2010]

I think that we have now played 70 matches with Hughton in charge. If I have got it correct we have won 18, drawn 22 and lost 30 games. So, assuming that we have had 35 matches away from home we have only won 4. This in itself is pretty dire and many fans have tried to explain the reason as to why this record is so poor, but it is only conjecture. The impression that I got yesterday is that there is no belief or desire to take the match to the opposition. Not sure that we will survive in the Prem this season but ask myself if this is as good as it gets under any manager would we not be enjoying the football more in the Championship?

 

[Walsh.i.am]

I think that we have now played 70 matches with Hughton in charge. If I have got it correct we have won 18, drawn 22 and lost 30 games. So, assuming that we have had 35 matches away from home we have only won 4. This in itself is pretty dire and many fans have tried to explain the reason as to why this record is so poor, but it is only conjecture. The impression that I got yesterday is that there is no belief or desire to take the match to the opposition. Not sure that we will survive in the Prem this season but ask myself if this is as good as it gets under any manager would we not be enjoying the football more in the Championship?

If we played like we did yesterday, we'd struggle to give Yeovil Town a decent game, it pains me to say

 

[DHCanary]

Not sure that we will survive in the Prem this season but ask myself if this is as good as it gets under any manager, would we not be enjoying the football more in the Championship?

The first point is something I've highlighted before. For the foreseeable future, 40 points a season has to be regarded as a successful season. That's 10 wins, 10 draws and 18 defeats. We're currently at 8 wins, 8 draws and 16 defeats, so despite a poor season, we're not really that far off would be deemed a decent season. The reality of life in the bottom half of the Premier League is that on average we should lose every other game, and only win ~1 in 4. Whoever is in charge, I can't see results getting much better, 30-50 points is probably the largest range of points we're looking at.

But, as a club we need to play the long game and accept Premier League mediocrity for a few seasons. We've already cleared our debt, but survival allows us to improve facilities, our academy, and generally position ourselves to be a stronger side in the future. We're not going to be in the Premier League forever, but when we go down we need to be in the best possible position to come back. It should at least give us more exciting seasons in the championship anyway! What I hope we do (and haven't showed signs of yet) is invest in stadium expansion. Sky TV money will come and go, but the fans will be there forever so we need to be making the most of the support we've got. A bigger stadium should hold us in good stead for the future, whichever league we're in.