Who's the biggest failure so far: Ozil or Soldado?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hoddle is a god
  • Start date Start date
  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
I know some of you secretly hold out the hope that LOLdado is going to "come good."

For a long time, I felt like that about Torres. "Dear Lord!" I used to say to myself, "Surely, even Mad Dog would not fork out £50 million on someone as bad as Torres had become!"

Of course, Torres hasn't come good. Yes, he's had the odd spell, but I doubt that any Chav, with his hand on heart, would say that he thinks that was £50 million well spent.

For most of us, that's exactly how it's going to be with LOLdado. Even if he perks up a bit and starts to earn his wages (which I still very much doubt, incidentally), it'll be too little too late, and you'll all be left with that feel, "he was never really worth what the club forked out for him."

Now and here's the real point of this thread - the Gooners will, comparatively, get more out of Ozil than we will out of LOLLY; but it will still never be quite enough for Gooners to turn round and say to anyone, with any degree of conviction, "Yeah, he was worth the £42 million the club spunked away on him."

The question posed by this thread is, contrary to what some smirking juvenile Gooners are trying to make out, not an easy one to answer at this point in time.

Yes, Ozil has fared better, but no where near good enough to justify the money paid for him. No, LOLLY has scored anywhere enough goals to justify what we blew on him, but if he bangs in a couple before the end of the season (even in games that we don't win, a la Bent), he won't have been a complete and utter waste.

Ultimately, neither player is looking to have been a shrewd purchase by his respective club.
 
With Soldado, we made a similar error to what Santini made: when a journalist asked Santini about the overly defensive set-up and the slow build-up (with full backs banned from crossing the halfway line) Santini fobbed them off with a response saying it didn't matter because Keane and Defoe would score goals, completely ignoring the fact that to score goals it's a good idea to get the ball forward occasionally.

AVB's logic with the Soldado signing seems to be the same: as he was a remarkably effective goalscorer in Spain, we can stick him on top and even though the set-up would be overly defensive and the attacking play would be incredible ponderous, when the ball came to him he'd bang it away and everything would be golden - which is why AVB favoured Soldado over Levy and Baldini's preference of Benteke.
 
Suarez7 said:
LAMEla surely ? <laugh>
Click to expand...

On the rare occasions where he hasn't been injured or dropped in favour of less effective players such as Chadli, Townsend or Sigurdsson, there's been glimpses of what Lamela can do when he's settled and gets a run of games. On the other hand, Soldado has regressed a lot - he hasn't had a good performance since the Europa game against Anzhi, and whilst in the early part of the season he looked effective without scoring now he looks ineffective without scoring.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
With Soldado, we made a similar error to what Santini made: when a journalist asked Santini about the overly defensive set-up and the slow build-up (with full backs banned from crossing the halfway line) Santini fobbed them off with a response saying it didn't matter because Keane and Defoe would score goals, completely ignoring the fact that to score goals it's a good idea to get the ball forward occasionally.

AVB's logic with the Soldado signing seems to be the same: as he was a remarkably effective goalscorer in Spain, we can stick him on top and even though the set-up would be overly defensive and the attacking play would be incredible ponderous, when the ball came to him he'd bang it away and everything would be golden - which is why AVB favoured Soldado over Levy and Baldini's preference of Benteke.
Click to expand...

It is simpler than that. AVB believes in ball retention so the striker needs to be a skilful ball player, not either a poacher or a target man. Adebayor and Soldado fit the bill. Benteke doesn't and nor does Defoe really. With players like Benteke and Defoe they tend to waste the ball.
For a similar reason he likes inverted wingers because crossing the ball is a bad tactic. Much better to keep it and pass it.
Everyone will agree about this in 10 years time! For the moment look at where Robben and Bale play for Bayern Munich and Real Madrid, and look in vain for a Benteke style player at any of the top clubs (Dzeko possibly, but he is 4th choice at City)
 
Not PC enough said:
Well todays performance confirms the answer to this thread unequivocally .

It can be closed i think .

<ok>
Click to expand...

redwhiteandermblue said:
Got that right. We still trust Soldado not to f up our team.
Click to expand...

Not PC enough said:
still ? !!


<cheers><cheers>
Click to expand...

It's true you've wised up faster to the fact that both Soldado and Ozil can only be useful to their teams slicing oranges at this point.

But the thing is, Soldado would show up on time, display a decent work rate, and get along fine with his teammates, even if he did need help getting the orange sections into the bowl. Whereas Ozil would be drained from clubbing all night, get everyone angry at him, and lack the strength to break the skin with a knife--which is probably a good thing, I wouldn't trust him with a knife otherwise.

You must log in or register to see images
 

Attachments

  • M-knife.jpg
    M-knife.jpg
    24.2 KB · Views: 3
any truth in the rumour that when Soldado's wife ask him why Hiag called him a donkey he replied "E or E or E or E or E orways calls me that"?
<get me coat smilie>
 
redwhiteandermblue said:
It's true you've wised up faster to the fact that both Soldado and Ozil can only be useful to their teams slicing oranges at this point.

But the thing is, Soldado would show up on time, display a decent work rate, and get along fine with his teammates, even if he did need help getting the orange sections into the bowl. Whereas Ozil would be drained from clubbing all night, get everyone angry at him, and lack the strength to break the skin with a knife--which is probably a good thing, I wouldn't trust him with a knife otherwise.
Click to expand...

Ozil has 5 goals and 10 assists in 30 appearances in the league and CL. He has been in the top 3 players in the league for assists and chances created for the entire season to date and spent the majority of the season so far at the top of both of these, dropping from top spot in the last couple of months along with his dip in form.

He has had a dip in form, but this has coincided with losing Ramsey and Walcott from the team. Two players who both run in behind the defense and give Ozil an outlet on the counter. With only Giroud in front of him (who for all his strengths isnt the quickest player) and midfield players having to play wide, it is no suprise he has been less effective.

With the return of Oxocube and Podolski from injury (both players with pace who will run in behind the defense and give an outlet during counter attacks) Ozil's last few performances have been notably better, being arguably the best player on the pitch in our games against Utd and Liverpool.

Despite his penalty miss (i don't like the style of penalty but go onto youtube and watch him score several penalties in an identical way for Germany and Madrid, not the end of the world) he was involved in everything good we did offensively against Bayern (including our fantastic first 30 minutes, and our few moments after the red card). Granted he then wasn't brilliant after the sending off, but he is an offensive player, one of the best in the world, he isn't great defensively. But he isn't lazy, that's just buying into stupid punditry. The stats showed he covered the 3rd most ground of any player on the pitch against Bayern. Considering the nature of the game after the red card i find it amusing that he is comming in for criticism for the performance when our whole team had to sit deep and chase the ball for most of the game.

He has had a good first season so far and has been an integral part of a team that is a point off top of the league (having topped it for most of the season) and who made it through the msot difficult of the CL groups. Whether he has been worth 42million will always be up for debate as its such a large amount of money, i think the same can be said about a lot of players, but the price of a player is effected by many more things than just their ability. I think he has been a good purchase who will be important for our title run in and with a season under his belt i expect him to do even better next season.

I get that the article is a little tongue in cheek but it's clear their is no contest as to which has been the better signing. Ozil has by no means been a flop even if he hasn't managed to maintain his early season form for the entire season.

Soldado i think is a good player, he was great in spain, not sure why he isn't doing well in england. At first i thought you lot just didn't create enough but now he seems to just be missing the goal. Confidence issues maybe? But for whatever reasons he hasn't done well. I think he is a player who could settle but i think it's more likely he will go abroad and then do very well.

So in conclusion, Ozil has had a good season, Soldado hasn't, both are good players, both cost quite a lot of money - make of that what you will.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
jadotbizzgooner said:
Like I said yesterday has anyone ever seen Loldado score turn and run to the team mate who give him the assist?
Click to expand...

He certainly did with Sigurdsson against Anzhi

[video=youtube;Ncvy4oUIZxM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncvy4oUIZxM[/video]
Click to expand...

When was that preseason?
Plus you all don't even care about that cup. Show me evidence of him doing that in the League.
 
jadotbizzgooner said:
Like I said yesterday has anyone ever seen Loldado score turn and run to the team mate who give him the assist?
Click to expand...

jadotbizzgooner said:
When was that preseason?
Plus you all don't even care about that cup. Show me evidence of him doing that in the League.
Click to expand...

[video=youtube;_pLv_lLoXqA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_pLv_lLoXqA[/video]

Funny how the thumbnail pic is the moment Soldado turns to run towards Paulinho, who assisted on the goal, no?
 
jadotbizzgooner said:
When was that preseason?
Plus you all don't even care about that cup. Show me evidence of him doing that in the League.
Click to expand...

Let's just list everywhere your comment fails:
i.) This was a Europa League fixture, so can't be pre-season
ii.) The fixture was played on December 12th, so can't be pre-season
iii.) Erik Lamela got the assist for Soldado's second, and since Lamela didn't arrive at the club until August 30th it can't be pre-season
iv.) You seem to have decided it wasn't pre-season halfway through your comment. Way to stick to your argument!
v.) This game was played on December 12th. AVB was in charge on December 12th. AVB wanted to win the Europa League
vi.) Here's Soldado seeking teammates after scoring against Palace, in the Premier League: http://youtu.be/nOan49SoMZU
vii.) Here's Soldado seeking teammates after scoring against Villa, in the Premier League: http://youtu.be/nIRFzdyzUJM
viii.) Here's Soldado seeking teammates after scoring against Stoke, in the Premier League: http://youtu.be/o6FGzdOFpkg

You must log in or register to see images
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Let's just list everywhere your comment fails:
i.) This was a Europa League fixture, so can't be pre-season
ii.) The fixture was played on December 12th, so can't be pre-season
iii.) Erik Lamela got the assist for Soldado's second, and since Lamela didn't arrive at the club until August 30th it can't be pre-season
iv.) You seem to have decided it wasn't pre-season halfway through your comment. Way to stick to your argument!
v.) This game was played on December 12th. AVB was in charge on December 12th. AVB wanted to win the Europa League
vi.) Here's Soldado seeking teammates after scoring against Palace, in the Premier League: http://youtu.be/nOan49SoMZU
vii.) Here's Soldado seeking teammates after scoring against Villa, in the Premier League: http://youtu.be/nIRFzdyzUJM
viii.) Here's Soldado seeking teammates after scoring against Stoke, in the Premier League: http://youtu.be/o6FGzdOFpkg

You must log in or register to see images
Click to expand...

THIS, this, is possibly the greatest post I have ever read on an internet footy forum. I doff my cap to you my good man.
 
Soldado has definitely been a flop. 1 goal in open play from a £26m striker is inexcusable. The talk of "not playing to his strengths" can't be argued any more in my opinion, he's missed open goals, one on ones, headers, had a strike partner to "take the pressure off" and has still failed to do anything of note. Great penalty taker though.

Where as Ozil hasn't lived up to his price tag, he's done ok but for £42m, "ok" isn't good enough. Looks like the type of player that can't be relied upon when things are going tough, a poor attitude to the cause.
 
The Goons on their "laugh at Spurs" thread, have been taking the piss out this thread, and me in particular, with PESKIE chair-leading the chuckles, but what they have all, in their complete and utter ignorance, failed to understand is that this thread is about relative comparisons, not absolutes. LOLdado, who has scored us some goals, cost us a fraction of what Bug Eyes has cost Arsenal, and whilst on an absolute comparison Buggy has fared better, in relative terms he has been the biggest flop.

PESKIE has even tried to argue that I have accepted that I have made a "village idiot" out of myself with this thread by admitting that I was "wrong."

<doh>

Okay, so I know that he is motivated to act the way he does, but I really do think he should spend more time in that cupboard of his (beneath the stairs), rather than embarrass himself so regularly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back