Is history cast in stone?

[DMD]

You suggested (erroneously) in post #89 that I was basing my opinions solely on the Hull Comets experience, despite the fact that I clearly only supplied it as an example, and suggested I have a play on google. Presumably you regard this as an answer. OK, so what about the documentary and oral testimony bit. Are there plans afoot to destroy it do you think?

So what is the substance behind this gut feeling of yours?

 

[Aire]

I think a lot of places/people will still make reference to Hull City and follow it up with a "as what they used to be called" or something along those lines. It's not as if the name change goes through and everyone forgets we were Hull City. Or they will simply refer to us as Hull, which is what a lot of outlets do anyway.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Yeah that's another point. Nearly everyone refer to us as Hull anyway, with no reference to City. How does this name change affect those references? Will people go from calling us just Hull, to Hull Tigers? I doubt it.

 

[Aloysius]

So what is the substance behind this gut feeling of yours?

The wealth of evidence to which I have alluded, which will still be available should the name change go through.

This evidence will not disappear. This is not a gut feeling but an assumption about the continued existence of objects and people through time. This assumption is shared by all people not confined to lunatic asylums - or whatever the current term for such institutions is.

 

[DMD]

The wealth of evidence to which I have alluded, which will still be available should the name change go through.

This evidence will not disappear. This is not a gut feeling but an assumption about the continued existence of objects and people through time. This assumption is shared by all people not confined to lunatic asylums - or whatever the current term for such institutions is.

What wealth of evidence would this be, you seem to have omitted to post it.

 

[Aloysius]

What wealth of evidence would this be, you seem to have omitted to post it.

Documentary evidence and oral testimony.

You're not expecting me to actually physically present you with all the books, DVD's, Internet sites etc, which make reference to HCAFC are you? Let alone all the people who will bear witness to it's existence.

 

[Fez]

I think a lot of places/people will still make reference to Hull City and follow it up with a "as what they used to be called" or something along those lines. It's not as if the name change goes through and everyone forgets we were Hull City. Or they will simply refer to us as Hull, which is what a lot of outlets do anyway.

They might, but, if you are from Hull, we know we shouldn't, as that is one of our rugby teams; you seem to have forgotten that already.

 

[DMD]

Documentary evidence and oral testimony.

You're not expecting me to actually physically present you with all the books, DVD's, Internet sites etc, which make reference to HCAFC are you? Let alone all the people who will bear witness to it's existence.

A summary of your version of the key points will do.

 

[Fez]

Yeah that's another point. Nearly everyone refer to us as Hull anyway, with no reference to City. How does this name change affect those references? Will people go from calling us just Hull, to Hull Tigers? I doubt it.

You have an excuse, a piss-poor one, but an excuse. Now try learning the history and social standing of your club

 

[Aloysius]

A summary of your version of the key points will do.

My version of the key points of what? Clarify.

 

[DMD]

My version of the key points of what? Clarify.

The substance behind your claim.

 

[Aloysius]

The substance behind your claim.

Are you requesting a potted history of HCAFC to the present? If so, may I direct you to google as a start.

The content of the history of HCAFC is, however, irrelevant to the question of the continued existence of the history of HCAFC.

 

[Benjo]

Fez, you've put a good post together there so I'd like to pick your brains out of interest. A few questions if I may...

Over what period of time do you believe the general public will have all but forgotten 'Hull City' by?

What effect will this have on you or will you even be alive enough to care after said amount of time passes?

How long will it take you, personally to forget about 'Hull City'?

Do you think most other people, (non Hull City fans) care about our club name enough to put any conscious effort into remembering our current or potential 'official' name or do you think they already call us 'The Tigers', 'Hull', 'Hull City', 'Hull Tigers' or any mixture of those at their discretion? Do you think they kniw any better even now? Regardless of your answers, do you care what they think?

Would it be so devastating if some southern journo says in a few years that 'Hull Tigers gained promotion in 2008'? What would happen?

If you're daughter gets married does she get disowned for taking another surname? What happens to her 'history'? When she wins a nobel prize after marriage are you not proud of her?

To clarify again, I'm in the anti-name change camp. I just think the history side of the argument is weak, particularly in comparison to the 'bad marketing' argument. I'd argue that we'll still be the same club, regardless of the name. Same city, ground, players, manager, owner, fans, colour scheme...

I look forward to some answers for the above. Might shed some light on some personal interpretations of the effects of the name change on the club going forward, rather than focusing too much on attempting to apply general theory to prove a general point in a very specific situation.

 

[DMD]

Are you requesting a potted history of HCAFC to the present? If so, may I direct you to google as a start.

The content of the history of HCAFC is, however, irrelevant to the question of the continued existence of the history of HCAFC.

Nope, that's clearly nothing at all to do with the question I asked. I can only assume despite all your replies 'gut feeling' is all you've got.

 

[DMD]

Fez, you've put a good post together there so I'd like to pick your brains out of interest. A few questions if I may...

Over what period of time do you believe the general public will have all but forgotten 'Hull City' by?

What effect will this have on you or will you even be alive enough to care after said amount of time passes?

How long will it take you, personally to forget about 'Hull City'?

Do you think most other people, (non Hull City fans) care about our club name enough to put any conscious effort into remembering our current or potential 'official' name or do you think they already call us 'The Tigers', 'Hull', 'Hull City', 'Hull Tigers' or any mixture of those at their discretion? Do you think they kniw any better even now? Regardless of your answers, do you care what they think?

Would it be so devastating if some southern journo says in a few years that 'Hull Tigers gained promotion in 2008'? What would happen?

If you're daughter gets married does she get disowned for taking another surname? What happens to her 'history'? When she wins a nobel prize after marriage are you not proud of her?

To clarify again, I'm in the anti-name change camp. I just think the history side of the argument is weak, particularly in comparison to the 'bad marketing' argument. I'd argue that we'll still be the same club, regardless of the name. Same city, ground, players, manager, owner, fans, colour scheme...

I look forward to some answers for the above. Might shed some light on some personal interpretations of the effects of the name change on the club going forward, rather than focusing too much on attempting to apply general theory to prove a general point in a very specific situation.

Did the daughter change her name for reasons of conformity and tradition as is expected, or to a shorter name, seemingly to attract interest from Asia?

How are Gateshead doing in the Rugby these days?

 

[Aloysius]

Fez, you've put a good post together there so I'd like to pick your brains out of interest. A few questions if I may...

Over what period of time do you believe the general public will have all but forgotten 'Hull City' by?

What effect will this have on you or will you even be alive enough to care after said amount of time passes?

How long will it take you, personally to forget about 'Hull City'?

Do you think most other people, (non Hull City fans) care about our club name enough to put any conscious effort into remembering our current or potential 'official' name or do you think they already call us 'The Tigers', 'Hull', 'Hull City', 'Hull Tigers' or any mixture of those at their discretion? Do you think they kniw any better even now? Regardless of your answers, do you care what they think?

Would it be so devastating if some southern journo says in a few years that 'Hull Tigers gained promotion in 2008'? What would happen?

If you're daughter gets married does she get disowned for taking another surname? What happens to her 'history'? When she wins a nobel prize after marriage are you not proud of her?

To clarify again, I'm in the anti-name change camp. I just think the history side of the argument is weak, particularly in comparison to the 'bad marketing' argument. I'd argue that we'll still be the same club, regardless of the name. Same city, ground, players, manager, owner, fans, colour scheme...

I look forward to some answers for the above. Might shed some light on some personal interpretations of the effects of the name change on the club going forward, rather than focusing too much on attempting to apply general theory to prove a general point in a very specific situation.

I'd agree with this.

That is we would either be the same club, or the direct progeny of the former club. Whichever you prefer.

 

[Aloysius]

Nope, that's clearly nothing at all to do with the question I asked. I can only assume despite all your replies 'gut feeling' is all you've got.

Nope, don't have a gut feeling. Nor do I have any idea what you would accept as evidence to support the uncontroversial assertion that the history of HCAFC will not be expunged should the name change go through.

I think you know this to be true but for some unexplained reason are unable to acknowledge it.

 

[Benjo]

Did the daughter change her name for reasons of conformity and tradition as is expected, or to a shorter name, seemingly to attract interest from Asia?

How are Gateshead doing in the Rugby these days?

Poor end to last season for FC, but hopefully they can finally have the sort of season they've been banging on about for the last few years (and not lived up to). You got their name wrong by the way. No harm done.

As for the daughter let's say there are three.

The first marries and changes her name due to tradition.

The second marries and insists on keeping her maiden name.

The third marries and shortly afterwards legally has her name changed to something she prefers.
All three of them end up with some incredible achievements. Do they all get the same love and praise?

 

[DMD]

Poor end to last season for FC, but hopefully they can finally have the sort of season they've been banging on about for the last few years (and not lived up to). You got their name wrong by the way. No harm done.

As for the daughter let's say there are three.

The first marries and changes her name due to tradition.

The second marries and insists on keeping her maiden name.

The third marries and shortly afterwards legally has her name changed to something she prefers.
All three of them end up with some incredible achievements. Do they all get the same love and praise?

I didn't say FC, I said Gateshead, but you've made the point quite nicely. Ta.

As for the ladies, you're not seriously reckoning that bears any relationship to the current situation at City?

 

[DMD]

Nope, don't have a gut feeling. Nor do I have any idea what you would accept as evidence to support the uncontroversial assertion that the history of HCAFC will not be expunged should the name change go through.

I think you know this to be true but for some unexplained reason are unable to acknowledge it.

So you have nothing robust to offer in support of your gut feeling. You could have said that some time ago.

There's plenty of robust academic articles that support the claim that history is not cast in stone. Some have even been mentioned on this thread.