Perspective

[Super G Ted'inho]

I disagree, Playing the way we do will always lead to the centre backs struggling positionally. We are so open you can't expect our two centre backs to be able to cover every blade of grass, it just isn't humanly possible. Playing in a more traditional back 4 (as under Kenny) Skrtels positioning was spot on 99% of the time. I thought Kompany (one of the best centre backs of recent times) was caught out as often as Skrtel yesterday and yet thanks to a whole heap of luck, an atrocious piece of goalkeeping and the most biased ref we've faced all season Kompany was on the winning side and Skrtel wasn't. Out of our two playing yesterday Skrtel was the more solid of the two yet Sakho seems immune to criticism on here.

Let's be honest we were playing a team who are one of the best in the world....a team who scored 4 against united, 6 against Arsenal and 6 against Spurs. They are one of the best counter-attacking teams seen in a long time. They scored two against us and really, had we scored the chances we were given we wouldn't be criticising any of our defenders.


Anywhoooo all that aside I was very proud of how we played yesterday. I bet City won't face many tougher challenges at home this season and despite the defeat I hope we take the many positives into the Chavski game Keep playing like that and we will earn a place in the top four.

Jamie Carragher

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

Jamie Carragher

He didn't help Skrtel that much because often Skrtel had to play LCB when Carra played....that's when Ninja is at his worst....I think he's been our most consistent player at the back this year and yet he still gets slated. He sweats blood for the team and fights like an animal when required. Of course it's fair to criticise him for Citys first I've no issues with that but in fairness to him he ain't the first or last player Kompany beats in the air (top, top player).


No way do I want to see Skrtel sold on at the moment. Solid, solid player

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

He didn't help Skrtel that much because often Skrtel had to play LCB when Carra played....that's when Ninja is at his worst....I think he's been our most consistent player at the back this year and yet he still gets slated. He sweats blood for the team and fights like an animal when required. Of course it's fair to criticise him for Citys first I've no issues with that but in fairness to him he ain't the first or last player Kompany beats in the air (top, top player).


No way do I want to see Skrtel sold on at the moment. Solid, solid player

Can't argue with that TBH. As you know, I don't slate the player for his abilities, I think he is a very good CB, it is the shirt pulling and rugby approach etc that irritates me. I've been banging on about this for at least two years and it seems others are now starting to take notice too, if others are now noticing then you can bet your bottom dollar that the referees attention will have been drawn to it too so expect some penalties sooner rather than later.

I'd even go as far as to say Skrtel was our MOTM yesterday, he made some superb last ditch tackles and blocks, won most headers ignoring the set-pieces where he came up against the best in the league; Kompany.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

Can't argue with that TBH. As you know, I don't slate the player for his abilities, I think he is a very good CB, it is the shirt pulling and rugby approach etc that irritates me. I've been banging on about this for at least two years and it seems others are now starting to take notice too, if others are now noticing then you can bet your bottom dollar that the referees attention will have been drawn to it too so expect some penalties sooner rather than later.

I'd even go as far as to say Skrtel was our MOTM yesterday, he made some superb last ditch tackles and blocks, won most headers ignoring the set-pieces where he came up against the best in the league; Kompany.

We agreeing about Skrts?? Must be christmas

The shirt pulling is an issue but as long as he's getting away with it I don't give a **** As you say he is definitely the red hot topic of convo at the moment with the traiterous **** Owen talking about it more than is normal (obssesed) but I look at it in a slightly different way, if he wasn't doing it, thus giving his man a free ride and conceding goals we'd be a hell of a lot more critical eh.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

We agreeing about Skrts?? Must be christmas

The shirt pulling is an issue but as long as he's getting away with it I don't give a **** As you say he is definitely the red hot topic of convo at the moment with the traiterous **** Owen talking about it more than is normal (obssesed) but I look at it in a slightly different way, if he wasn't doing it, thus giving his man a free ride and conceding goals we'd be a hell of a lot more critical eh.

Yesterday was slightly different in that Kompany was doing it too so the referee was always going to ignore it. any other week and I would have been moaning about it I'm convinced he needs to change now he's got the reputation for it.

Owen is a nob.

 

[DirtyFrank]

The downside to Rogers Rant yesterday is it inccluded shirt pulling. Every journo piece I've read today has mentioned Skrtel and all have said it's not the first time.

So with refs backs up over Rogers comments I can see him (Skrts)being targeted for his antics. (I remember a season where Terry was targeted for a while and picked up a few penalties because of it)

That will make him a liability if he continues. It remains to be seen if he's bad at set pieces because he does it or whether he does it because he lacks the abilities needed for defending set pieces/crosses. I worry it's the latter.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

We need a more physical DM who can cover the ground quicker and protect the defence.

Skrtel and Sakho were exposed - Lucas should have done better for their second goal.

 

[jenners04]

The downside to Rogers Rant yesterday is it inccluded shirt pulling. Every journo piece I've read today has mentioned Skrtel and all have said it's not the first time.

So with refs backs up over Rogers comments I can see him (Skrts)being targeted for his antics. (I remember a season where Terry was targeted for a while and picked up a few penalties because of it)

That will make him a liability if he continues. It remains to be seen if he's bad at set pieces because he does it or whether he does it because he lacks the abilities needed for defending set pieces/crosses. I worry it's the latter.

maybe its Sakho and Agger time?

hope we try it soon, i feel more comfortable with Agger at the back than Skrtel, might help Sakho having a better CB next to him as well, never been a a huge fan any way, cash in whilst has value? Rafa can have him lol.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

We need a more physical DM who can cover the ground quicker and protect the defence.

Skrtel and Sakho were exposed - Lucas should have done better for their second goal.

I do agree with that. He looks very leggy at the moment Lucas and I'm not sure he is protecting the centre backs well enough (although again in his defence he was playing against a top, top midfield on a massive pitch). I would definitely like to see some more competition in midfield in all areas tbh

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

I do agree with that. He looks very leggy at the moment Lucas and I'm not sure he is protecting the centre backs well enough (although again in his defence he was playing against a top, top midfield on a massive pitch). I would definitely like to see some more competition in midfield in all areas tbh

He's a good DM in the right system.

Unfortunately, our style of play is aggressive which will leave gaps. As a result, we need players in the middle who clever in their movement, positionally aware and can cover ground quickly. And I don't think this suits Lucas.

Think he and Allen will be very good squad players to have. But we need that extra bit of quality.

 

[DirtyFrank]

On the perspective thing: I took a look at the weekends fixtures and I'm sorry but going on how this league's went so far I only see a dead cert result for City there. The rest of the teams matches around us and including us could go either way.

We just focus on winning or at least drawing and we''ll be dandy.

 

[Foredeckdave]

Well I thought that Lucas had a brilliant game. If City's attacking is about anything it's about pace and power. Lucas was never going to be able to adopt a Masch style approach in this game - even Masch would have failed! But he shadowed, covered and slowed up the attacks to the best of his ability. He was however left isolated when Allen ventured forward in support of the attacks leaving Lucas vulnerable to a series of different style counters from City.

 

[DirtyFrank]

In other words Dave, we just have to accept that City has enough power, class and skill to get past any midfield eventually in a match and that we did a better job than most at giving them something else to think about at home.

 

[saintanton]

I agree with Billy about Shirtl.

I think he's playing percentages a bit, if he gives away two or three pens in a season but prevents a dozen goals then it's a positive. He's been getting away with it for yonks, but it's getting highlighted a lot now and I think the officials will start picking up on it. If that's the case then he'll have to try a different approach.
Carra spent his entire career pulling and arming off attackers and got away with it most of the time. If they're both doing it then it's hard to blame one or the other. Martin's big problem is, as has been pointed out, that he's not even looking at the ball- he's playing the man. He was very good in other aspects of his game, though imo.

For those advocating Agger, I think Kompany would have had him for pudding.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

I agree with Billy about Shirtl.

I think he's playing percentages a bit, if he gives away two or three pens in a season but prevents a dozen goals then it's a positive. He's been getting away with it for yonks, but it's getting highlighted a lot now and I think the officials will start picking up on it. If that's the case then he'll have to try a different approach.
Carra spent his entire career pulling and arming off attackers and got away with it most of the time. If they're both doing it then it's hard to blame one or the other. Martin's big problem is, as has been pointed out, that he's not even looking at the ball- he's playing the man. He was very good in other aspects of his game, though imo.

For those advocating Agger, I think Kompany would have had him for pudding.

Difference is, Carra was watching the ball too

 

[saintanton]

Difference is, Carra was watching the ball too

Hence my following sentence.
I was pointing out that most strong defenders base their game on a physical battle with their opponents and tend to get away with it most of the time, if it's seen as six of one, half a dozen of the other. If Skrtel at least makes a pretence of going for the ball, he'll be no worse than most other defenders of that style. It's just so blatant at the moment that he's going to get caught out.

 

[Foredeckdave]

In other words Dave, we just have to accept that City has enough power, class and skill to get past any midfield eventually in a match and that we did a better job than most at giving them something else to think about at home.

That's exactly as I see it. The differences between the two sides was their undoubted advantage in experience and the amount of power that they could impose from their midfield. We more than matched that most of the time with pace and skill but they could change their style of attack whereas we couldn't. When it came to substitutions they again had the advantage in strength and skill.

One thing I believe that I did see was HEART. For the first time for a very very long time I felt (yes! how the hell can you feel anything by watching the tv?) we have a side that is playing for themselves, their team, their manager and us in equal measure. Perhaps its too much Christmas spirit but if I'm only half right then we are already way ahead of the opposition.

 

[Klopp's Mannschaft]

maybe its Sakho and Agger time?

hope we try it soon, i feel more comfortable with Agger at the back than Skrtel, might help Sakho having a better CB next to him as well, never been a a huge fan any way, cash in whilst has value? Rafa can have him lol.

Agger's worse than Skrtel
We'd concede twice as many from set pieces, loose more one on ones at the back and all for the sake of having a defender who'll occasionally step forward with the ball and blaze a shot over the bar? No thanks. Sakho and Skrtel or Sakho and Toure. Agger is nowhere close to being as good as people make him out to be.