Green Brigade/FOCUS

[RebelBhoy]

At least you have now decided to address the actual content of the song. The very thing you contend is offensive.

I don't believe for one single second that your ire is raised by the line about England. Nor do i believe you think it means anything other than the Westminster Government. What you doing is chasing a justification of your position and you will not find one.

It is nought but smoke and mirrors.

I won't concede to not proven because quite clearly the statement that you said you were standing by and have now abandoned was false.

 

[Mind The Duck]

I think people are offended that someone, who they are told to believe is their enemy, can have a song lamenting their passing. This makes the 'enemy' look almost human and as we all know, we would never despise a fellow human never mind allow them to suffer in captivity.

It is useful to call these non humans 'scum' so they are thought of as little more than bathroom residue

And only morons would sing about dirty bathrooms

 

[RebelBhoy]

That is it MTS. Anything Republican or about Republicans has been demonised to such an extent that people think that even mentioning it is inherently offensive.

If it is inherently offensive then it can be a prosecutable offence. That is some paradoxical whack job **** right there. You can have freedom of expression as long as you can do it without offending me.... What you think offends me, so don't say it, even if you can say it inoffensively.

It is absolutely bizarre.

 

[Mind The Duck]

That is it MTS. Anything Republican or about Republicans has been demonised to such an extent that people think that even mentioning it is inherently offensive.

If it is inherently offensive then it can be a prosecutable offence. That is some paradoxical whack job **** right there. You can have freedom of expression as long as you can do it without offending me.... What you think offends me, so don't say it, even if you can say it inoffensively.

It is absolutely bizarre.

I blame the internet

Being offended and sharing your ire has never been so easy, even with the cops who are also on Twitter. We know the cops are looking for a replacement for their old firm overtime so take every complaint onboard

Governments want to be in control and show they are in control so if mopey bastards say a song is celebrating terrorism (current agenda) and its widespread and easily found then facts won't matter, they will stamp down

The internet has given some freedoms but restricted others

One thing hasn't changed though:



Talking to the cops makes you a GRASS

 

[RebelBhoy]

Loose lips sink ships.

 

[rogueleader]

No, what is meaningless is making erroneous assertions and failing to offer anything to back them up.

Just like your comment about Bobby Sands at the passing of Mandela. It just doesn't stand up to any degree of scrutiny.

The content of the song cannot by any sensible appraisal be considered offensive. If it could, you would have offered it, but it isn't, so you haven't.

you cant seriously believe that, really ?

The words " ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer " are not, in actuality, offensive words until they are contextualised.

 

[Mind The Duck]

No, what is meaningless is making erroneous assertions and failing to offer anything to back them up.

Just like your comment about Bobby Sands at the passing of Mandela. It just doesn't stand up to any degree of scrutiny.

The content of the song cannot by any sensible appraisal be considered offensive. If it could, you would have offered it, but it isn't, so you haven't.

you cant seriously believe that, really ?

The words " ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer " are not, in actuality, offensive words until they are contextualised.

Stereo must be a right bastard....seeing as Hitler was a vegetarian too

 

[Patience]

Atmosphere today was poor. Maybe just Xmas, but got a feeling that the absence of the GB section was the main reason. Even dull games this season and last were kept going by their constant contribution.


PL should talk to these guys reps and try to encourage them back minus the stuff that gets the club fined.

Btw of the 128 apparently no one had been banned.

Were the club looking for an excuse?

Why didn't you spend Friday night making a banner out of a bed sheet? How come you didn't do your bit by jumping on seats or letting off flares or singing banned songs? Why not show your support and unity by continuing their hard work of creating a good time at CP?

I'm confused as to why you seem to leave the creation of an atmosphere to the GB when you're - clearly - such a massive, huge supporter, not only of the club but also the GB's work.

 

[RebelBhoy]

No, what is meaningless is making erroneous assertions and failing to offer anything to back them up.

Just like your comment about Bobby Sands at the passing of Mandela. It just doesn't stand up to any degree of scrutiny.

The content of the song cannot by any sensible appraisal be considered offensive. If it could, you would have offered it, but it isn't, so you haven't.

you cant seriously believe that, really ?

The words " ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer " are not, in actuality, offensive words until they are contextualised.

Your MO is to make an unqualified assertion and attempt to ridicule the eminently rational responses you get to that. This happens no matter whether your ridiculing stands up to scrutiny or not.

The context of this song is quite clearly about the Hunger Strikers of 1981 and not about their activities within the PIRA or the INLA.

So, yes. Of course I am serious. So i shall repeat myself. The content of the song cannot by any sensible appraisal be considered offensive. If it could, you would have offered it, but it isn't, so you haven't.

 

[Hoopster67]

Why didn't you spend Friday night making a banner out of a bed sheet? How come you didn't do your bit by jumping on seats or letting off flares or singing banned songs? Why not show your support and unity by continuing their hard work of creating a good time at CP?

I'm confused as to why you seem to leave the creation of an atmosphere to the GB when you're - clearly - such a massive, huge supporter, not only of the club but also the GB's work.

http://videocelts.com/2013/12/blogs/fans/fans-face-st-johnstone-flag-ban

 

[Patience]

Time for a republican flag protest, so it is

 

[DevAdvocate]

.

 

[DevAdvocate]

I think people are offended that someone, who they are told to believe is their enemy, can have a song lamenting their passing. This makes the 'enemy' look almost human and as we all know, we would never despise a fellow human never mind allow them to suffer in captivity.

It is useful to call these non humans 'scum' so they are thought of as little more than bathroom residue

And only morons would sing about dirty bathrooms

Are you addressing this to me?

 

[DevAdvocate]

At least you have now decided to address the actual content of the song. The very thing you contend is offensive.

I don't believe for one single second that your ire is raised by the line about England. Nor do i believe you think it means anything other than the Westminster Government. What you doing is chasing a justification of your position and you will not find one.

It is nought but smoke and mirrors.

I won't concede to not proven because quite clearly the statement that you said you were standing by and have now abandoned was false.

I never claimed to be upset by the England line, i'm telling you why it is offensive. You believe England means the Westminister Government but you don't believe glorification or support for the Hunger strikers means support for the PIRA. I don't get it.

And I have abandoned nothing, you assumed the content meant only the lyrics, and I have told you what "Content" means as regards a song.

Your MO is to make an unqualified assertion and attempt to ridicule the eminently rational responses you get to that. This happens no matter whether your ridiculing stands up to scrutiny or not.

The context of this song is quite clearly about the Hunger Strikers of 1981 and not about their activities within the PIRA or the INLA.

So, yes. Of course I am serious. So i shall repeat myself. The content of the song cannot by any sensible appraisal be considered offensive. If it could, you would have offered it, but it isn't, so you haven't.

So how do I find it offensive?

 

[RebelBhoy]

So how do I find it offensive? Am I special?

I am not the law. You have already explained.

I don't decide what is offensive for everyone, I leave that to the law

You see, I agree with you on this point;

people are entitled to be offended if they want and no one has the right to tell them they have no right to be offended.

I get that the song offends you. You have made that clear. When asked to justify why the content of the song is offensive I've not seen anything remotely credible.

Those who purport to support you have done nothing but undermine you by agreeing that it isn't the content...

You have offered that it is offensive because people in England might think that we are likely to have sung another song. This is just not credible.

People are getting criminalised for this, so you'd want to be sure of your rationale....And you are not.

 

[DevAdvocate]

I get that the song offends you. You have made that clear. When asked to justify why the content of the song is offensive I've not seen anything remotely credible.

Those who purport to support you have done nothing but undermine you by agreeing that it isn't the content...

You have offered that it is offensive because people in England might think that we are likely to have sung another song. This is just not credible.

People are getting criminalised for this, so you'd want to be sure of your rationale....And you are not.

You have not seen anything remotely credible as to why the song is offensive?



Sectarian singer fined £400

A CLEANER was arrested for singing ‘The Sash’ in a Perth railway station bar as he made his way to a controversial Orange march.Alan Wilson (23) was fined £400 for singing the sectarian song when he appeared at Perth Sheriff Court on Wednesday. Depute fiscal Lucy Keane said: “He was behaving in a loud way within the bar area when at the railway station and was singing a song commonly known as The Sash. “His behaviour was causing alarm and annoyance to staff and members of the public so police were called.” Solicitor Steve Lafferty said the part-time cleaner had been drinking and accepted he had behaved in an unacceptable manner. "He was only going as a spectator and foolishly got caught up in the emotion of it and started singing this song.”

Wilson, of Hilltown, Dundee, admitted committing a breach of the peace aggravated by religious prejudice.

>>>>>>

So sure l'm an Ulster Orangeman, from Erin's isle I came,
To see my British brethren all of honour and of fame,
And to tell them of my forefathers who fought in days of yore,
That I might have the right to wear, the sash my father wore!

Chorus:
It is old but it is beautiful, and its colours they are fine
It was worn at Derry, Aughrim, Enniskillen and the Boyne.
My father wore it as a youth in bygone days of yore,
And on the Twelfth I love to wear the sash my father wore.

Chorus

For those brave men who crossed the Boyne have not fought or died in vain
Our Unity, Religion, Laws, and Freedom to maintain,
If the call should come we'll follow the drum, and cross that river once more
That tomorrow's Ulsterman may wear the sash my father wore!

Chorus

And when some day, across the sea to Antrim's shore you come,
We'll welcome you in royal style, to the sound of flute and drum
And Ulster's hills shall echo still, from Rathlin to Dromore
As we sing again the loyal strain of the sash my father wore!

---------------------------------------------------------------------

It's your turn, tell me what part of the Sash is offensive or are you going to say it's not?

 

[RebelBhoy]

I never claimed to be upset by the England line, i'm telling you why it is offensive. You believe England means the Westminister Government but you don't believe glorification or support for the Hunger strikers means support for the PIRA. I don't get it.

Bullshit.

RL wanted the song put in context. I put them in context and now you want to take it out of context again to invent offensiveness.

And I have abandoned nothing, you assumed the content meant only the lyrics, and I have told you what "Content" means as regards a song.

You have extended what the word content means to chase your argument.

I don't know if you want to Deal with the song in context or out of context?

At one point I thought we were dealing with the content of the song.

Then I thought you wanted to include not just the lyrics but the subject matter.

After that you want to include lyrics, subject matter and context.

Now, after all that you want to include lyrics, subject matter, context and now the abstract notion of what that might mean in terms of support for the Provos... Because that would mean it is already illegal.

So ok, you might not have abandoned your statement, you have just abandoned what you originally meant by it to stretch the bounds of credulity to its limits.

Just say what we all know to be true. You don't like the song because of the interpretation that you put on it. Not because the song is sang with the intention of causing offence and not because its content is in any way offensive..... You just don't like it because it says the name Bobby Sands. That's all.

 

[RebelBhoy]

(null)

I've posted the sash on this site loads of times. The WolfeTones do a good version. It isn't offensive.... So.....


I am sure you are aware that it is a different song to the one we are discussing.

 

[DevAdvocate]

Bullshit.

RL wanted the song put in context. I put them in context and now you want to take it out of context again to invent offensiveness.




You have extended what the word content means to chase your argument.

I don't know if you want to Deal with the song in context or out of context?

At one point I thought we were dealing with the content of the song.

Then I thought you wanted to include not just the lyrics but the subject matter.

After that you want to include lyrics, subject matter and context.

Now, after all that you want to include lyrics, subject matter, context and now the abstract notion of what that might mean in terms of support for the Provos... Because that would mean it is already illegal.

So ok, you might not have abandoned your statement, you have just abandoned what you originally meant by it to stretch the bounds of credulity to its limits.

Just say what we all know to be true. You don't like the song because of the interpretation that you put on it. Not because the song is sang with the intention of causing offence and not because its content is in any way offensive..... You just don't like it because it says the name Bobby Sands. That's all.

Is that right? You've decided that's what offends me (and perhaps the rest of the people on here who say it's offensive?)



It does not work that way i'm afraid.

 

[DevAdvocate]

I've posted the sash on this site loads of times. The WolfeTones do a good version. It isn't offensive.... So.....


I am sure you are aware that it is a different song to the one we are discussing.

Yes it is a different song but it's also a song which has nothing in it's content which reasonable people should find offensive and that's why I gave it as an example because it IS offensive, if you lived in Scotland you would understand.