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C

Cruyff's Turn

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2011
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Suffolk
I've already nailed my coulours to the mast,I was never a "Hughton in" man but I refuse to join the "out" witch hunt.IMO a lot of the comments have been totally unfair.I agree that the football has been far less attractive under him than Lambert but that wasn't an option we had.We may just as well criticise our forwards for not being Holt.

The first thing: Of the bottom half of the Premiership we have lost only to Hull.Of the four bottom half sides we have played we have taken seven points.That is a far better guide than losing at Arsenal or Man City because it means that not only do we score points,but our rivals don't.

Secondly: If you had been on a desert island the last three months and were presented with the table now with Norwich missing how would you guess the results might have gone,I suggest something like this.

Everton (H) Draw

Hull (A) Draw

Saints (H) Draw

Spurs (A ) Loss

Villa (H) Draw

Stoke (A) Draw

Chelsea (H) Loss

Arsenal (A ) Loss

Cardiff (H) Win

M City (A ) Loss

W Ham (H) Win


I make that 11 points.
 
We're back on your point-a-game theory. Difficult to say, I'd put a loss at Stoke but a win at Hull so that'd make 12 points for me. People forget Lambert had a poor run-in, also losing heavily at home to Manchester City and Liverpool. His best moments during that run was the win at Tottenham and draw at Arsenal. He's rightly a legend but walked, we had to move on.
 
Cruyff's Turn said:
I've already nailed my coulours to the mast,I was never a "Hughton in" man but I refuse to join the "out" witch hunt.IMO a lot of the comments have been totally unfair.I agree that the football has been far less attractive under him than Lambert but that wasn't an option we had.We may just as well criticise our forwards for not being Holt.

The first thing: Of the bottom half of the Premiership we have lost only to Hull.Of the four bottom half sides we have played we have taken seven points.That is a far better guide than losing at Arsenal or Man City because it means that not only do we score points,but our rivals don't.

Secondly: If you had been on a desert island the last three months and were presented with the table now with Norwich missing how would you guess the results might have gone,I suggest something like this.

Everton (H) Draw

Hull (A) Draw

Saints (H) Draw

Spurs (A ) Loss

Villa (H) Draw

Stoke (A) Draw

Chelsea (H) Loss

Arsenal (A ) Loss

Cardiff (H) Win

M City (A ) Loss

W Ham (H) Win


I make that 11 points.
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That's the best argument I've read about supporting Hughton this season. I'd say 15 points would have been our maximum attainable with the team, 10-12 would be the acceptable quantity.

The points tally however has never really been my issue with Hughton.
 
Yes,and I understand that and to a certain extent agree.I just don't see who we could realistically had as a manager who would have been capable of doing much better/different.I would rate Hughton as 6/10 to date,maybe 7 taking into account last season's finish.It's just that I don't see an 8/10 manager being available to us.
 
i checked back and this was what i'd predicted pre-season - i said 13 points and i'm told i'm more optimistic than most. had we won the cardiff game, as we deserved to, we'd be smack-bang on my guesstimate <ok>

Everton (H) Draw
Hull (A) Draw
Saints (H) Draw
Spurs (A ) Loss
Villa (H) Win
Stoke (A) Loss
Chelsea (H) Draw
Arsenal (A ) Loss
Cardiff (H) Win
M City (A ) Loss
W Ham (H) Win

we've made a slightly indifferent start, but its by no means been a disaster other than the man city score line and performance. definitely, in my opinion, not bad enough for the manager to have been allegedly (in some eyes) one game from the sack, even if you take last season into account.
 
carrabuh said:
That's the best argument I've read about supporting Hughton this season. I'd say 15 points would have been our maximum attainable with the team, 10-12 would be the acceptable quantity.

The points tally however has never really been my issue with Hughton.
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Mine neither, simply at this level Hughton is out of his depth. This is shown by the fact he spent to improve the team and there has been little progress, either in defence or attack. He does not use the squad he has as well as he could or should. We have players in the squad ie. Hoolahan and Fox both capable of making an impact on a game and he never uses them. He does not inspire confidence in the players, which has been clear from the start and was shown yesterday.
He sent out the wrong formation against West Ham, which was demonstrated in the first half. In the second half it is quite possible the players took it on themselves to change the formation and that is why we won.
Always happy with a win, but still have zero confidence in Hughton
 
Mexican Canary said:
Mine neither, simply at this level Hughton is out of his depth. This is shown by the fact he spent to improve the team and there has been little progress, either in defence or attack. He does not use the squad he has as well as he could or should. We have players in the squad ie. Hoolahan and Fox both capable of making an impact on a game and he never uses them. He does not inspire confidence in the players, which has been clear from the start and was shown yesterday.
He sent out the wrong formation against West Ham, which was demonstrated in the first half. In the second half it is quite possible the players took it on themselves to change the formation and that is why we won.
Always happy with a win, but still have zero confidence in Hughton
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how many points do you think we should have then? you are easily the most negative poster on here, and you've got plenty of competition! <laugh> so where do you think we should have made ground? i'm not going through the money aspect again because you're argument is fatally flawed and you know it is but you could at least give us a reasoned answer as to how many points we should have.

it does also seems to me that a lot of the people who are against hughton are those based abroad or who can't get to games. is that a coincidence?
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
how many points do you think we should have then? you are easily the most negative poster on here, and you've got plenty of competition! <laugh> so where do you think we should have made ground? i'm not going through the money aspect again because you're argument is fatally flawed and you know it is but you could at least give us a reasoned answer as to how many points we should have.

it does also seems to me that a lot of the people who are against hughton are those based abroad or who can't get to games. is that a coincidence?[/

You make me laugh, you believe you are the last word in football and that your argument is the only one that has any merit.
i am perfectly entitled to my own opinion as you are yours.
When i return to the UK which i do 2 or 3 times a year i go to watch City. I have seen them play whilst CH has been manager, it was and still is dire. I have been a city supporter since the early 70's and I always will be, unlike you I am not afraid to disagree with the crowd. I am not one of the "" in crowd'' on here and i am happy with that, i chose to be different. Is that OK Supers???
I don't live in my 3 bed semi in Sprowston, i have chosen to broaden my horizons, therefore can not always get to games. Does that make my opinion less valid? get down off your pedestal Supers, or you might fall very soon!
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Was going to post this in reply to Vietnam on the "Relief" thread, but here seems more apt:

Key games now are the Palace and Fulham games before the new year. Judging by the early table, that's two of the four easiest home games we've got this season, so 6 points from them is a must. At worst, that takes us to the halfway point of the season on 17 points, not far off the point per game which generally means survival. Palace would have to score points at a rate of nearly 2 per games to overhaul us then, and Sunderland not far off that, particularly if we avoid defeat at the Stadium of Light. Two key results should therefore send us into the new year at the very worst in 18th, and in contention with other teams in a similar position based on points tally.

Come January we'll probably have Bennett back and Tettey not far away, and we've got the money to invest in a midfielder (or two) and a centre back, depending on form, injuries and availability. I don't think Palace have the money to significantly improve their squad, and with the summer overhaul, I can't see Sunderland improving their squad much either. After nearly crippling themselves financially signing Carroll, I don't see West Ham spending much more, although they will have their main man back. Presumably Hull don't have a lot left to spend either, and I expect them to slip back into contention as the season goes on.

Based on that, I think Hughton's earned himself a major stay of execution this weekend. Pick up 6 of the easiest points available this season before Christmas, and we're still going to be in a competitive position going into the new year. When survival is the realistic aim, it's hard to sack him based on that.
 
DHCanary said:
Was going to post this in reply to Vietnam on the "Relief" thread, but here seems more apt:

Key games now are the Palace and Fulham games before the new year. Judging by the early table, that's two of the four easiest home games we've got this season, so 6 points from them is a must. At worst, that takes us to the halfway point of the season on 17 points, not far off the point per game which generally means survival. Palace would have to score points at a rate of nearly 2 per games to overhaul us then, and Sunderland not far off that, particularly if we avoid defeat at the Stadium of Light. Two key results should therefore send us into the new year at the very worst in 18th, and in contention with other teams in a similar position based on points tally.

Come January we'll probably have Bennett back and Tettey not far away, and we've got the money to invest in a midfielder (or two) and a centre back, depending on form, injuries and availability. I don't think Palace have the money to significantly improve their squad, and with the summer overhaul, I can't see Sunderland improving their squad much either. After nearly crippling themselves financially signing Carroll, I don't see West Ham spending much more, although they will have their main man back. Presumably Hull don't have a lot left to spend either, and I expect them to slip back into contention as the season goes on.

Based on that, I think Hughton's earned himself a major stay of execution this weekend. Pick up 6 of the easiest points available this season before Christmas, and we're still going to be in a competitive position going into the new year. When survival is the realistic aim, it's hard to sack him based on that.

Despite the performance not being that grea
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fulham are an odd one. on paper they have some real talent but i'm not sure i'd want many of those players (parker excepted) in a dog fight! if jol loses his job (a little unfairly imo) then it'll be interesting to see who they go for to replace him. palace as we know are still without a new man, but one would expect them to struggle no matter who comes in.
 
also, good points about new recruits in january. it certainly looks as though we will have money available, baring in mind we were in the market for both alderweireld and toivonen, neither of which came off in the summer. its difficult to know which is the bigger priority, centre defence or attacking midfielder, but preferably both! i suspect we may have to wait until next summer to seriously upgrade either position but you never know
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
fulham are an odd one. on paper they have some real talent but i'm not sure i'd want many of those players (parker excepted) in a dog fight! if jol loses his job (a little unfairly imo) then it'll be interesting to see who they go for to replace him. palace as we know are still without a new man, but one would expect them to struggle no matter who comes in.
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I don't think they've got enough battlers in their squad for a relegation fight. The likes of Berbatov, Taarabt, Bent, Ruiz aren't the type to tackle back and put in a solid defensive shift when backs are against the wall, whilst Hooper, Elmander, Snodgrass will. I also think they're lacking drive in the centre of the park, Sidwell and Parker are fairly similar in putting in a defensive shift, but I'd take Fer over either any day. Whilst their attacking, flair players could cut a team to pieces, it needs confidence, which they're sorely lacking, and they need a performance like ours yesterday to start correcting that.

Having said that, their last 10 games does include Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Southampton and Liverpool, so it's not like they've had the easiest of games of late, whilst their next 10 look more promising. Getting the confidence back could transform them.
 
Progress is what one would expect, there has been none. There were additions to the squad, you add players because they are supposed to be better, therefore one would expect improvement, again there is none. We are not defending and we are not scoring goals. We have a goal difference of -12 after 11 games, this could be -40 by the end of the season.
I have not mentioned money nor points because this is not the issue. My point is on the evidence in 2013 we are destined for the championship. i do not think we can expect to be as lucky as we were last year, where many of the results from other games went for us at the end of the season and we got 2 unlikely wins. Our final position was very flattering, if all of us are honest.
Supers, you are calling me the most negative poster on here, as far as i am concerned that is personal.
Do i expect anything to change under this manager, NO
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
also, good points about new recruits in january. it certainly looks as though we will have money available, baring in mind we were in the market for both alderweireld and toivonen, neither of which came off in the summer. its difficult to know which is the bigger priority, centre defence or attacking midfielder, but preferably both! i suspect we may have to wait until next summer to seriously upgrade either position but you never know
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Would be mighty harsh on Howson to bring someone in who might replace him, but I do think we need more competition in that role as I sadly don't think Wessi can be classed as that of late.
 
why were we lucky last season? what, because we amassed enough points to finish 11th? yeah - dead lucky.

would you like to know our league record for 2013?

it might surprise you.

P30 W8 D9 L13 Pts 33

so that's slightly above a point a game for the year. i honestly can't see too much to get disheartened by there. we've had some great performances, some average, some iffy, some poor and some dreadful. so we're a mid-to-lower half premier league side then...

if this is our 'annus horribilis' then i'm quite satisfied! rather this than be in the championship. and i repeat, we've picked up more points than swansea in the last 34 games (almost a season). is laudrup on the verge of the sack?
 
DHCanary said:
Would be mighty harsh on Howson to bring someone in who might replace him, but I do think we need more competition in that role as I sadly don't think Wessi can be classed as that of late.
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sadly, hoolahan is finished as far as i can tell. i really hoped he might regain some of that spark he had early last season but actually he's been nowhere near the grade all year. i'd be quite surprised if he's still at the club come february, so long as a younger replacement is recruited
 
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