I am and so should the players be. They've had it drummed into them all week about what this game means to us and they then had the gall to turn in a non-performance like that. I listened to a radio summary in my car on the way home, which said that Cardiff deserved to win because they were the more COMMITTED side: that we didn't turn up and lacked the courage and conviction to win it. That is shameful, no other word for it. I've no problem about being beaten by a better side. It's happened many times before and it will certainly happen again. I DO have problems losing to a team who were merely more committed. Not more skillful; not better footballers; not more experienced at this level; certainly nowhere near a better team but just more COMMITTED for ****s sake!! This game was a shameful indictment of the lack of character within our team. Okay, so far this could be called destructive criticism, so let's be constructive. How do we turn it around? Firstly, I'd get the hell out of the Europa cup because we do not, as a team, have the stamina, the strength or the fitness, the resources (or the skill) to compete successfully in the three competitions we are still in and we are NOT going to win the Europa. I would play the second choices en bloc in our remaining fixtures and let them sink or swim. Good experience for them, which will make them more useful when they play in the Premier League, the one that counts. Next, I would be marking the cards of a number of our players, including amongst others, Dyer, Routledge, JdG, Shelvey and Britton. All of them have to bring a more physical element to their game and start getting back to the ball retention that previously served us so well by focusing on their passing and movement. And stop playing at Billy Big Bollocks with the fancy flicks etc. It might look good but it's not professional and costs us possession far too often. Our wingers are reputed to be fast. Well it's about time they started living up to their reputations. They have the ability to inject pace into our attacks but they are just not doing it. Even when there is space to attack, they just jog with the ball as if next week will do. It WON'T do!! They should pin their ears back, head for the bye line and rely on the rest to get up in support. If the support keeps not arriving, it becomes a matter for Laudrup to sort out. Bet that Michu will always be there though. As for the goal, technically it was a foul but they are given as often as not. It was down to Chico to deal with it but he allowed himself to be out-muscled and it cost us. And where was Vorm? He could have made the chance a lot more difficult by throwing his weight into the mix but he stayed at home because he doesn't like physical contact - which was why I posted that Tremmel should have started because we know that all Cardiff offer is the set piece and might be likely to score from one. I posted that as well, saying we would need two goals to win this game. Finally, why no Bony AGAIN? Half time stats showed that we score twice as much when he starts. Also, the time between goals is almost HALVED. That is one set of stats that doesn't lie and I have to ask the question, why isn't Bony starting? I bet Bony is asking too.
At least weve now got the only keeper in the prem with a clean sheet chin up things may get better after that wake up call ?
Agreed. Emotions are always running high after losing a big match especially when everyone was expecting/hoping for a win but you have to remember for all this talk of a fantastic performance by Cardiff the only thing that separated the sides after 90 mins was a set piece goal. A couple of additions in January to boost the squad and you'll still be fighting for a top half position. Michu & Bony haven't started scoring like they are able to yet, once they click as a partnership you'll fly up the table. I think Laudrup is just easing him (Bony) in slowly at the moment because its a long season for you with european games and you might need him fresh toward the end of the season. Just my opinion as an outsider, though posters on here have seen more of Swansea than me so they're in a better position to judge how Laudrup is doing so far this season.
I don't think that Ivor has over reacted, and to be honest we dropped 3 points again, with a very poor work ethic, theses players get paid over £30,000.00 a game and then put in another shift like that, as far as I'm concerned it's a bloody disgrace, I've watched better fight in Swansea League players getting payed bugger all, sorry Ivor is on the money, and I for one will put money on a big board meeting very soon, as our players are becoming a bloody joke!..............
Dragon . you and many others are totally over reacting. you predicted a 1-3 win to the swans right ? that's the problem right there, a total disregard for the opposition IMO. the dragons are fighting for their lives and this was a cup final for them, our boys didn't want to lose and were all things considered unlucky to lose ! one set piece goal which truth be told should have been defended much better. we are not playing well that much is clear but lets give credit to the opposition sometimes is it ? Im ashamed to read daft comments running players down when I know for sure no swans player would want to lose against their rivals ,its plain daft to suggest they didn't want it etc. sometimes you win derby games and sometimes you lose, get over it ,**** happens ,ok>
laudrup wants to do well in europe before doing well in the premiership. As long as we are not in the bottom three then playing in europe seems to be his No1 priority this season....Our squad is too small to do well in both and he knows it. I don't think Huw is very happy with him at the moment with laudrups logic of placing us in the bottom half of the league and hoping we will come out on top...
Christ, to be honest I came away not feeling too bad, but I only read the first paragraph of this thread and wanted to slash my wrists. I know it was against them, but I just put it down as one of them games. Ivor, for me you are the best poster on this forum, and I've only read the first paragraph and to me that was worse than the game! I'll read on tomorrow in sobriety but my current feeling is that we're all fine
Cardiff fan in peace. You complain about being out worked by us and a lack of commitment in comparison. It's what we do. Its what MM's side has been built on. He doesn't play an open expansive game with 2 wingers on the touch line. He played today and has done for much of his time with us with a very high energy technically limited centre mid on the right wing (Cowie). He demands 110% from the whole side every match. We play most games like a derby match. When a number of you talked about how limited we were whilst getting promoted I argued you were ignoring this part of our game. So all I'm getting at is whilst very few of us are surprised you had more possession today, perhaps you shouldn't be surprised we out worked and out fought you and found a way to score. It's the principals MMs side has been built on. We can play football, but it's our organisation and work rate that are Outstanding. Maybe in the return your possession football will overcome our strengths but in the same way we'd struggle to start playing 60% possession against you overnight, you can't expect to match our work rate and organisation that has been built over the last 2.5 seasons. I don't think it's as simple as your lot 'not trying or caring' as much as us. Not trying to turn the thread into a style debate just offering an alternative to the 'we didn't try' opinion.
It was a close run match and in no way were Cardiff up for it more than we were. Neither side wanted to lose and played accordingly unfortunately it was Cardiff who nicked the goal hence winning the game. If we had nicked it then everyone would be on here jubilant and ecstatic but today it was not to be. I agree totally with Norway jack an absolute over reaction to today's events. I have not missed a match this season home or away (europa league away matches excluded) and have nor witnessed any lack of commitment on the part of the team at all. Yes there have been times when we haven't played that well but that's the same for all teams, but overall it's been fine. I'm astonished at some of the things said on this thread absolutely astonished.
You can keep your shame to yourself, Norway, so far as I'm concerned. While you're busy playing the good loser, some of us are asking as to WHY the team couldn't raise its game in this of all fixtures. The result is another thing entirely, you win some, you lose some. That's how it goes. As Dragon correctly states, these players are on good money and they didn't earn it today. I would far sooner have lost 0-3 providing the players tried their best for us. Today they didn't. I quoted Ian Walsh on another of your threads. He's an experienced footballer and pundit. He at least saw what was happening, even if you, and others, did not. I repeat his words: Swansea lost to a more committed team and lacked the courage and fight to win the game. You might be happy with this but I am not. These are highly paid professionals and, for whatever reason, they just went through the motions today - all the more irksome because we know there is more than enough talent and ability in this team to win such games. Bad day at the office? We seem to be having more and more of these of late. Just look at the body language of Michu. The guy is royally brassed off and I see him seeking pastures new if things continue like this. As for shame, save it for those who deserve it, the ones who represented our proud club today but couldn't be bothered to turn up. Mr Walsh's words not mine.
That was a shocking second half performance. Phil touched on work ethic and that is the core of the problem. We are not going to beat teams by cruising up the field - a well organised defence like Cardiff will swallow that up. We allowed Cardiff to come on to us in the second half with absolutely no pressure being put on the ball - that is not acceptable at U13 level never mind a Welsh derby. From Laudrup, to the players, to the physios (who took ages to get Michu back on the pitch - that is twice now) - a good kick up the backside should be given to all. We were beaten by a side playing Championship football who gave more effort - and that is not acceptable.
Don't talk rubbish Ivor. playing the good loser is far better than playing the sore loser by the way Do you honestly believe the players didn't want to win that game? you should try and have a touch of class and do one or both of the following. 1. give credit to the opposition,who won a tight crappy football game where there was little skill on offer 2. chill the fook out until the morning and post sensible stuff not some guff about players not earning the money etc,etc 3. Accept the limitations of our style and realise you cant have a team of runners and fighters who are also exceptional footballers. I can be out spoken with the best of them and give it both barrels when needed but to say the players didn't put a shift in is just sour grapes, they were not out battled either,cardiff played the % game better than us and scored from a set piece which was poorly defended by shelve on the goal and chico man marking . we lost get over it and constructively criticize when your sober
This is not about playing the good loser or sore loser. This is about analysing performance. That second half performance lacked attitude, commitment, tactics and work ethic. And that is not acceptable on all counts.
I don't think ivor is a sore loser but a realist. We threw the game away today, we had more skill on that pitch to win the game in the first half the way cardiff was so poor. Its been the same old story all season that we have been poor and not up to the standard of past seasons and we supposedly strengthened the squad for this season.....where by i ask?...I never thought i would say this but i'm beginning to agree with some that i wish we never qualified for europe now. We have not been the same team full of fight and scoring goals for fun. even michu has not been the same this season than he was, something needs to give and i say with regret that i hope we get knocked out of europe soon or we could be drawn into a relegation battle..
Norway, I'm not often accused of lacking class. I'll ignore it, this time..... 1) I've given credit to Cardiff for their... commitment. 2) Just because I disagree with your pov doesn't mean I'm not chilled. In today's game I feel the players did not earn their money. MY opinion, OK? 3) I have long accepted the limitations of our style. The mistake you make is implying that we have a team of exceptional players. Well, I hate to break the news to you but they are NOT exceptional. Do you really believe they are? It is why I have long posted that we need a harder physical edge to the team. Our players are not good enough to win games by skill alone. We play a system that has worked for us in the past. It has now started to break down for a number of reasons. Other teams now know they can disrupt us by pressing hard and getting in our faces. We don't like it because we can't deal with it. Dealing with it does not involve running around like headless chickens. It means players being stronger on the ball and it means players not being lazy by continuously moving off the ball to create space to take a pass. We don't do that effectively any longer because it's hard work to keep doing it throughout 90 minutes. Therefore, it's either a fitness problem or an attitude problem. Either way, it ain't acceptable. Since the CO final, our overall play has been on a slow but steady decline arrested briefly by the odd good result. Not panic stations by any means but something has gone missing from our game and I feel that only a blinkered idiot could deny it. Today's performance merely highlighted one of the problems. Ask Ian Walsh. He watched the same game. I have got over it. I have more important things to worry about than football. Nevertheless, I remain passionate and always will. By the way, I love a drink but I don't need it to enjoy life. That's why I'm sober now and usually am. PS: By the way, MOTD talked about one team wanting it more than the other and Cardiff having greater desire. Seems the informed evidence is mounting up, much as you might not like it.
The big thing under laudrup i have noticed is the team simply cannot put in two good halves. One half (usually first) were poor and the other we often override the opposition...usually with increased work ethic, and pressing. fitness issue? Why cant we put in two could halves. Valencia game aside....someone name the last time the team put in a consistent and solid 90 mins!!!
Norway your talking rubbish mate! no one is a sore loser here, and it's not an over reaction, there is something badly wrong with our work ethic on the pitch of late, and either the players are at fault or both Laudrup and the players need a kick up the rear, what I witnessed today was crap, and you can wrap the crap up which ever way you like, but it will still be crap, we couldn't find a decent pass all game and none of our players seem to be playing with harmony, it's as if they have all become individualists, and are no longer able to fathom out the team game. Yes Cardiff had more desire, but we were playing another team below us, and we put in another half hearted performance that was far from our best, and sufficient time has gone by now for many Jacks to see the true picture, this is not about the Derby, though that surely has focused the minds, on the decline in our game, time for our players to take a good hard look at themselves, for I fear this is going to be a long and painful season otherwise. Ivor I'm with you all the way on this, and lets hope that there is a big C change at Camp Laudrup soon!.....................
I'm sorry, but I'm with you NJ. Nobody likes losing the derby or any game for that matter but 'listening on the radio' says it all. Sorry ivor. And less of the 'talking rubbish' please DPJ. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Stop overreacting. Cardiff are going to be in a relegation fight. They know that and so do we. Yes we could have done better. But remember they have spent over £30M on new players so they ain't gonna roll over. Yes, I blame Laudrup. But we have no god-given right ot beat anyone. If Michu's chance had flown it it would be different. That's football. They deserved it so let's get over it and move on. Any other reaction makes us sound bitter.
