Wilshire - Puts his foot in it

[Kilburn]

Is that Vauxhall which is owned by Opel = German.

Ditto for our iconic Jag.....

"Jaguar Land Rover PLC is a British premium automaker headquartered in Whitley, Coventry, United Kingdom and has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Tata Motors (India) since June 2008, when it was acquired from Ford Motor Company."

 

[DaveThomas]

Dead right re St George but I stand with my own experiences re the die hard fan English fans I knew ... England is for English people is the message I got from these people I knew and wouldn't stand for it when I mentioned we are just born here and have no rights on this land ... People are free to come and go as they please ... England's history IMO is something to be thoroughly ashamed of. We are two faced England and St George's flag one minute ... Andy Murray the next

England for centuries have bent things to suit themselves. I went to a couple of matches away and sorry but the vein of nationalism I saw went far deeper than a game of football

Every time I see a Vauxhall people carrier with those bloody little Red Cross flags flapping from the windows ... Driven by a overweight mother in a England shirt I want to throw up

Jack From the Shire is a complete Pratt ... England and their fans are seriously the laughing stock of the world

Is that Vauxhall which is owned by Opel = German. Opel are owned by General Motors = American.

Exactly you still have people buying Vauxhall believing they are British
For me personally this can of worms runs a lot deeper ... I am proud to be British when I feel the cosmopolitan feel of General London today ... Best city in the world but on the flip ... head into any closed minded UK town and it won't be hard to find what I am talking about.

Take a stock check what English culture has been reduced to ... The current England football brand has been aligned with that ... We are pretending and adopt whatever we need to continue

Would the nation stand for the national team to be sponsored by Audi? Why not most English would aim for a Audi in life compared to a Vauxhall ... I see neatly polished Audis/BMWs Mercs everywhere I look and even see a few flags on them during a international match ... But I see a lot more astras as they are ok to flag up and don't bring up the wars

Look for yourselves

I ask would the England team ever been sponsored by KIA or VW?

This lame attempt of bull**** branding goes deeper than that ... If you have time check out what British Airways or BA as they like to be know are doing

Christmas is coming get ready everyone ... This is not food it's M&S food ... We make it all now in our back gardens because also we are now the world's best chefs

We even invented Curry and would possibly now allow the national team to be sponsored by Aldi

 

[Flyer]

Another one not worth commenting on except to say that JW is an idiot!

And if anyone cannot see the racial element in his comments (regardless of the fact that he probably didnt mean them) then they are also. Very badly thought out response IMHO.

Still not seen anyobne describe what make you/ us English, because if i remember my history correctly, we are a mish mash of other conquering nations with a German figurehead, so how involving other countries is wrong, is beyond me.
In the words of one of our other (not so often seen) posters "Its probably time for white people to stop telling black people what racism is"? - Direct quote !

Im mixed race, am i allowed to be English? then because if not I'll have my English flag tatto removed.

Pro

Im outta here on this one. good luck

Are you Australian?
Thats more to the point.
I take it one of your parents is English so that makes you English in everyones book.

 

[Flyer]

Not sure mate, thought it said earlier in this thread that he came to England as a 3 or 8 year old.?

But thats just 1 example. Im sure there are many more, and without spending time looking (whilst im at work) it was purely to illistrate a point?

Can you not see the different between coming here at that age and obviously before any talent was known and him coming here as a 20yo just to represent GB because hes good?

 

[DaveThomas]

The fact is we are all born everywhere

 

[KPDHoopster]

The fact is we are all born everywhere

I still dont understand this supposed age cutoff, that JW, is skirting around.

Why is it not ok, for a 20 yo or a 25 yo (or 50), for personal/political/professional reasons to move to a country, and not be accepted at all levels in his/her new adopted country (including representing it).

Can a "foreigner" not learn adapt, and even desire the traits of his new adopted country ? and be an excellent exponent in them ?

English traits for a footballer, may not be those for a snooker or darts, or even a ballerina ???

 

[Rollercoaster Ranger]

I still dont understand this supposed age cutoff, that JW, is skirting around.

Why is it not ok, for a 20 yo or a 25 yo (or 50), for personal/political/professional reasons to move to a country, and not be accepted at all levels in his/her new adopted country (including representing it).

Can a "foreigner" not learn adapt, and even desire the traits of his new adopted country ? and be an excellent exponent in them ?

English traits for a footballer, may not be those for a snooker or darts, or even a ballerina ???

Surely that way the richer countries can simply buy the best teams? They would be no point in international competition.

 

[4StringR]

Surely that way the richer countries can simply buy the best teams? They would be no point in international competition.

This is exactly my point and to further answer KPD, it's about long term citizenship of YOUR country. As I said earlier in the thread, Mo Farah and Raheem S come here as kids, they "grow up" in London and by the time they are in their teens they are effectively classed as English, are most likely integrated into British society. Now there are lots of people like this and some choose to hang on to their cultural identity and others choose to consider themselves as English. So by the time they are being considered for international representation, they have just as much right to choose England as Somalia, Pakistan, Ireland, Norway, whatever you like.

However, a guy arriving over here expressly to play for a Premier League team who have poached him from his home country and arriving as a foreigner is not by any definition English. That is not to say that he is not a great guy, a lovely chap, but he is just simply not English and that is the only point that Wilshere was making and you can either agree with his opinion on what constitutes an Englishman or you can disagree. The ruling bodies in this country, from the government down will change their own opinion on the subject based on whether they want to bring in someone for financial or sporting benefit or kick them out of the country and get rid of them.

I was born in this country, educated here and lived here all my life, but I am not an Englishman and God forbid if the lord had blessed me with the same talent as Wayne Rooney I would have played for ROI because I am not an Englishman, by choice. That is the flip side of the argument.

 

[Swords Hoopster.]

Oddball, I see where you're coming from RE uber-nationalist types. They do tend to be morons alright. However, I feel you're allowing them hijack what it means to be English. For example, the reason why the flag of England has become associated with right-wing knuckle draggers is because the majority seem to have surrendered their flag to these people. Its a vicious circle then because the more it becomes synonymous with skinhead racists etc, the more the real English withdraw and disassociate themselves from it.

Its time that ancient banner is reclaimed by the people of England and not allow it continue to be used as a symbol for the far right.

 

[KPDHoopster]

Surely that way the richer countries can simply buy the best teams? They would be no point in international competition.

So where is the line for a genuine person for personal reason not allowed to move to another country, therefore forbidden to even represent that country ?

And that is the price he pays. ie a man marries a English woman, and they decide for family reason to move to England, he would be forbidden to ever represent his new country - what other restrictions would you apply to him ?

 

[4StringR]

So where is the line for a genuine person for personal reason not allowed to move to another country, therefore forbidden to even represent that country ?

And that is the price he pays. ie a man marries a English woman, and they decide for family reason to move to England, he would be forbidden to ever represent his new country - what other restrictions would you apply to him ?

Yes, unfortunately it is. Ok, I'll grant you if he comes over here as a married man and spends 20 years getting really good at Lawn Green Bowls and in his 60s after being here 30-40 years, you could argue that it would be unfair for him not to be allowed to play in the World Cup Over 60s, but to say he has to pay a price for not being English is not the question. The question is whilst you still have national borders globally and supposed competitions to see who is the best at various sports, then it should be about the development and achievements of the native inhabitants, otherwise, scrap the international football competitions and make do with the Champions League.

 

[KPDHoopster]

Yes, unfortunately it is.

So you see cricket, rugby, athletics (to name a few) as having sold out, as they all have foreign born players representing the national team (and this happens in many countries) allowed by the governing bodies ?

And the international competition a farce for allowing professional sporting people to change nationalities.

Mind you any non-sporting professional, be it a doctor/engineer/nurse/etc, can emigrate and carrying on their trade (if they pass that countries professional qualifications) in another country.

But a sporting professional would have limitations, ie reach the highest level of his sport, representing his/her country ???

 

[Flyer]

So where is the line for a genuine person for personal reason not allowed to move to another country, therefore forbidden to even represent that country ?

And that is the price he pays. ie a man marries a English woman, and they decide for family reason to move to England, he would be forbidden to ever represent his new country - what other restrictions would you apply to him ?

Make it either 15 years or they have to be in that school system at 10 or younger.

That would eliminate people abusing the system while allowing people who were here before their talent was apparent to still play.

 

[Flyer]

So you see cricket, rugby, athletics (to name a few) as having sold out, as they all have foreign born players representing the national team (and this happens in many countries) allowed by the governing bodies ?

And the international competition a farce for allowing professional sporting people to change nationalities.

Mind you any non-sporting professional, be it a doctor/engineer/nurse/etc, can emigrate and carrying on their trade (if they pass that countries professional qualifications) in another country.

But a sporting professional would have limitations, ie reach the highest level of his sport, representing his/her country ???

Doctors etc don't represent their countries, can you not see the difference?

 

[Stroller]

I was born in this country, educated here and lived here all my life, but I am not an Englishman and God forbid if the lord had blessed me with the same talent as Wayne Rooney I would have played for ROI because I am not an Englishman, by choice. That is the flip side of the argument.

This is what I don't get, I'm afraid. I too was born and educated in England and have lived here all my life. I therefore consider myself English. Some of my plastic friends, however, like to call me 'The Taff' because my mother was born in Wales (she moved to London at an early age). How would this make me Welsh? BTW, I have a very Irish name.

 

[4StringR]

So you see cricket, rugby, athletics (to name a few) as having sold out, as they all have foreign born players representing the national team (and this happens in many countries) allowed by the governing bodies ?

And the international competition a farce for allowing professional sporting people to change nationalities.

Mind you any non-sporting professional, be it a doctor/engineer/nurse/etc, can emigrate and carrying on their trade (if they pass that countries professional qualifications) in another country.

KPD - I am sorry that is not a valid argument to start talking about non sporting professionals, no one is talking about restriction of trade. These footballers can ply their trade anywhere in the world and can often get work permits on the back of being signed for a Professional club quicker than other non sporting professionals who are trying to get a licence to practice their trade. No one is saying these footballers cannot play IN England, they just can't arrive in England and play FOR England.

Oh, and yes, you are damn right that I think all the other sports such as Cricket and Rugby have sold out and should not be allowed to do it. I am not saying that everyone has to agree with that opinion, but it is my opinion and as Nuts stated, I am firm with it,

We don't have The World's Best Doctor Competition, International Engineer of the World Cup.

We are purely talking on the basis that as there are currently globally international boundaries between countries and governing bodies of various sports continue to promote COMPETITION between countries to see who is the best. There is nothing wrong with being patriotic when dealing with sporting achievement

 

[KPDHoopster]

Make it either 15 years or they have to be in that school system at 10 or younger.

That would eliminate people abusing the system while allowing people who were here before their talent was apparent to still play.

What about an Australian woman, who born the love child, fathered by Lionel Messi, who wanted to move to England with her 15 yo son.

Who by the way was extremely talented, but owing to Australia's limited football academies, wished to be trained in England

Oh and has supported QPR since he could read ?

 

[4StringR]

This is what I don't get, I'm afraid. I too was born and educated in England and have lived here all my life. I therefore consider myself English. Some of my plastic friends, however, like to call me 'The Taff' because my mother was born in Wales (she moved to London at an early age). How would this make me Welsh? BTW, I have a very Irish name.

And one of my two brothers would totally agree with you Stroller as he considers himself English, but as you are not me and he is not me you both can't "get it" - because it is a very personal thing about how you consider your heritage and history. The Irish government recognize me as an Irish Citizen, I carry an Irish passport, so I have a basis for considering myself to be Irish. If Irish people were green in colour, then growing up here in the 70/80s I would probably have been subjected to direct racial abuse because of my colour, as opposed to just having to cringe every time someone passed an anti-Irish comment in my company, because my accent did not give the game away, even though my first name probably should have given them a clue. Perhaps if there had not been any Irish conflict during the last 100 years and strong anti-Irish feelings in the UK during The Troubles, then maybe my attitude would be different and I would not have come down on one side of the fence or the other. However, that is not to say that I don't support England (as long as they are not playing ROI that is) and I have a dent in my front room wall from when I kicked the footstool into the fireplace after England got knocked out of some competition or other. So perhaps in a sporting context I have the worst of both worlds because I have Ireland and England to support and not Spain and Italy instead!

 

[4StringR]

What about an Australian woman, who born the love child, fathered by Lionel Messi, who wanted to move to England with her 15 yo son.

Who by the way was extremely talented, but owing to Australia's limited football academies, wished to be trained in England

Oh and has supported QPR since he could read ?

That is a question for the FA and not me or Jack Wilshere. The answer stays the same.

 

[DaveThomas]

So you see cricket, rugby, athletics (to name a few) as having sold out, as they all have foreign born players representing the national team (and this happens in many countries) allowed by the governing bodies ?

And the international competition a farce for allowing professional sporting people to change nationalities.

Mind you any non-sporting professional, be it a doctor/engineer/nurse/etc, can emigrate and carrying on their trade (if they pass that countries professional qualifications) in another country.

But a sporting professional would have limitations, ie reach the highest level of his sport, representing his/her country ???

Doctors etc don't represent their countries, can you not see the difference?

Exactly we are all people yet football fans see things differently .. In fact Football is to blame for a lot of cultural division and nationism .

Look at football hard and see the problems that have developed ... It's been bigger than religion for over 45 years or more in fact it maybe 57 years or another number that is more than these two ... With that comes a real heap of trouble, blame and responsibility . Football is called just a sport but in effect it by far more than that ... TV Entertainment, betting etc etc is exactly how the people of this grubby little island are controlled, influenced and brain washed

JW says something and the country
falls over itself

In time it will need fixing until then expect these words/sayings to sink into you like maggots

Guys
Basically
At the end if the day
Can I get a...
I won't lie to you
X factor
Strictly
Seriously

Really really
So so
(Doubled up words to increase drama)
Prove it
I was like
It was like
Know what I mean
Simply put
Thanks boss man
Sick
Oh my God
My world
Piece of work


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