How long do we give him?

[carrabuh]

No, but that's not what he said?

It's pretty clear that what was meant is just a couple of injuries or bad luck can push you from eighth place to PL strugglers, which is patently true.

I'm not sure about the signings being incredible, personally. I think they each have a lot of potential, but really only Fer has showed he's a genuine step up. Hooper looks ostensibly great, but we haven't seen him tested nearly enough. I think RvW is clearly a very good signing, but it hasn't paid off yet as he acclimatises. Redmond has been a live wire, but I think he is all potential at the moment and a long way off being consistently beneficial to the team. I actually think he has been overplayed already. Elmander is ok, Olsson hasn't had a look in. Has Superman been raving about them? I think people have been reasonably objective about it.

I also don't think anyone has ever said Hughton is a fantastic manager. I think they've argued he's the best manager available for us, which is very different. I'm not sure he is - I have a feeling he's lost the fans permanently and has never quite been brave enough to set that right, but he's got c. 10 games to show us the other way. All I think the likes of Superman have said is they think the latter (I.e. that Hughton will come good) is very likely.

Sounds to me like you're enjoying a bit too much straw-man arguing mixed with a healthy dose of hyperbole, Carrabuh!

I thought you'd gone

Whether injuries push you back has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

I'm saying IF I thought like pyjamas, raving about everything we've done during the Summer etc etc, I wouldn't then go around telling everyone to EXPECT a relegation struggle, particularly if in my own head we were a eighth placed team. Makes no sense.

Even I'm not that negative.

 

[Canary Rob]

I thought you'd gone

Whether injuries push you back has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

I'm saying IF I thought like pyjamas, raving about everything we've done during the Summer etc etc, I wouldn't then go around telling everyone to EXPECT a relegation struggle, particularly if in my own head we were a eighth placed team. Makes no sense.

Even I'm not that negative.

Is that Carrabuh's version of a polite "**** off"?!



Well in which case you are arguing at cross-purposes, because injuries were central to Super's point.

I agree that there is a logical flaw in raving about everything, but still emphasising proportionate expectations. However, my point was that you're massively exaggerating what has been said. No-one has acted in your extreme illogical scenario.

Take the signings - it's not entirely the case - I think everyone was excited about our signings this summer (you aside, I appreciate), but I don't believe anybody, even someone as relentlessly positive as Superman, has said they have been fantastic. Of course, they may become so, but at the moment no. Likewise, with Hughton. Just because you want him out, doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't want him out yet thinks he's fantastic.

 

[carrabuh]

Is that Carrabuh's version of a polite "**** off"?!



Well in which case you are arguing at cross-purposes, because injuries were central to Super's point.

I agree that there is a logical flaw in raving about everything, but still emphasising proportionate expectations. However, my point was that you're massively exaggerating what has been said. No-one has acted in your extreme illogical scenario.

Take the signings - it's not entirely the case - I think everyone was excited about our signings this summer (you aside, I appreciate), but I don't believe anybody, even someone as relentlessly positive as Superman, has said they have been fantastic. Of course, they may become so, but at the moment no. Likewise, with Hughton. Just because you want him out, doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't want him out yet thinks he's fantastic.

I wouldn't tell anyone to **** off, well once before I think. You said you were going.

The injuries John Ruddy was the real issue for him) are only hypothetical for this, if they don't happen (in his eyes) we are an eighth position side.

I suggest you read his posts over the Summer if you think I'm massively exaggerating, my simple sum is quite an apt description.

I don't know why your bringing others into it, they have nothing to do with what I'm saying.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Does that mean we'll finish eighth this season then?

Whenever you talk about us this season your always so negative to "where we are as a club", "in transition" and not to expect anything but a struggle.

So were going from a potentially eighth position (in your view) to a struggling Premiership side (which you have said), in one Summer, have the opposition improved on us that much despite us being one of the higher spenders. Do the these sides not have to bed in their signings like us?

Sounds to me you think a certain person has made a few duff signings.

i was asked the other day, privately, whether i think you are a genuine poster or merely a wind up merchant. my response was categorically a 'no' to being a 'wum', but having read through your posts last night i have come to the conclusion that you are 'wumming' me. if not, then you have an alcohol problem!

to suggest you take all my posts out of context would be the understatement of the century.

so let me explain what i said before you initially responded (rob has made a good fist of it to be fair). do i think we'd have finished 8th last season had ruddy stayed fit? gut instinct says 'yes' - we finished just four points behind west brom. would ruddy have saved us four points? debatable of course, but i would suggest it was very likely seeing as he's the england number 2/3. we had a terrific spell in early to mid season but it wasn't until we got a few injuries to key players and the games started pilling up (cup and christmas games) that the run came to a stop and we got in a rut. to still finish just four points adrift of 8th place shows how good we were early in the season. you always finish where you deserve to and we deserved to finish 11th over the 38 games.

do i think we'll finish 8th this season? no. the reason? its a harder division this season with many clubs of our stature making some very astute signings. the bottom 12/13 teams are all fairly evenly matched once again so will keep beating each other. i do think we have the potential to finish 8th but we also have the potential to finish 20th - same as last season and, if we stay up this year, same next too, and the one after that! it is universally accepted that norwich city made some very good and positive signings during the summer - even you have said this yourself. i can't recall anyone 'doing a qpr' and suggesting these players are world class or the like, but they do all, on the surface, improve the standard throughout the squad. if we have a great season i think we can finish 8th. i predicted we'd finish anywhere between 8th and 16th and i'd be surprised if we finish outside those positions (to be fair, it does not take a genius to work it out).

i do not think we will struggle in the sense you are saying,. but as far as i'm concerned EVERY SEASON we stay in the premier league will be deemed a struggle to some extent because we will always likely be amongst the bottom 12/13 teams. why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Put it this way

Eighth placed team + Fantastic signings + Excellent manager = Relegation struggle

Doesn't quite add up.

a team good enough to finish anywhere between 8th and 20th + astute signings + capable manager = a team good enough to AGAIN finish anywhere between 8th and 20th, depending on how other teams match up to us (this is still not clear)

rocket science it is not!

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

It's pretty clear that what was meant is just a couple of injuries or bad luck can push you from eighth place to PL strugglers, which is patently true.

thank you rob - this is precisely correct. the margins are very fine

 

[Canary Rob]

I wouldn't tell anyone to **** off, well once before I think. You said you were going.

The injuries John Ruddy was the real issue for him) are only hypothetical for this, if they don't happen (in his eyes) we are an eighth position side.

I suggest you read his posts over the Summer if you think I'm massively exaggerating, my simple sum is quite an apt description.

I don't know why your bringing others into it, they have nothing to do with what I'm saying.

Err, Carrabuh you appear to have been confusing my posts and Dave's posts.

You know full well you're exaggerating for cheap points scoring. It's pretty graceless now.

 

[robbieBB]

In any ordinary use of English, the phrase "an 8th place side" would mean "a side that can be expected to regularly finish in 8th place or thereabouts", comparable to "a top six side". Swansea are "an 8th place side" at the moment, Spurs are "a top six side". We are definitely not "an 8th place side", but then Superman never said we were. What he said was that, had Ruddy remained fit, we could very well have finished 8th last year, which is perfectly true, since Ruddy could well have gained us the further 6 points that would have seen us edge out West Brom in 8th place. Carrabuh does neither himself nor his crusade against Hughton any good by carrying on like a blockhead. Most of us credit him with a bit more intelligence than that, but you do sometimes wonder.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

“Well, you always want a home draw if you can get it,” United manager David Moyes told Sky Sports 1. “Norwich are a good side, they have got a good manager and we will give them every respect.”

moyes out! i can't believe any manager would give praise to the opposition, even when i deem it's not merited...

he should wind them up, say they are **** in public!

(sorry, just illustrating how utterly idiotic it is when people moan about hughton giving praise to our opponents, even when you feel they aren't 'worthy' of your praise)

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

In any ordinary use of English, the phrase "an 8th place side" would mean "a side that can be expected to regularly finish in 8th place or thereabouts", comparable to "a top six side". Swansea are "an 8th place side" at the moment, Spurs are "a top six side". We are definitely not "an 8th place side", but then Superman never said we were. What he said was that, had Ruddy remained fit, we could very well have finished 8th last year, which is perfectly true, since Ruddy could well have gained us the further 6 points that would have seen us edge out West Brom in 8th place. Carrabuh does neither himself nor his crusade against Hughton any good by carrying on like a blockhead. Most of us credit him with a bit more intelligence than that, but you do sometimes wonder.

we were only 4 points behind robbie. we'll never know but i think he'd have saved the goal at wigan = 1 point; i don't think he'd have been bullied off the ball at west brom = 1 point; would he have been rash coming out and been sent off at sunderland? again, we'll never know but i'll say = 3 points; would he have saved agbonlarhor's first? = 1 point. 6 points he could have saved off the top of my head. as i say, we'll never know but it is hardly out of the realms of possibility that all those events would have been different with a better keeper between the sticks

 

[carrabuh]

a team good enough to finish anywhere between 8th and 20th + astute signings + capable manager = a team good enough to AGAIN finish anywhere between 8th and 20th, depending on how other teams match up to us (this is still not clear)

rocket science it is not!

Except that is not what you have been saying. If you thought as a starting point we would have finished eighth without certain injuries, then we are starting from a point much higher than a relegation threatened team. Then we've had all summer the constant raving of the players signed (full details of quite incredible abilities) as well as our exceptional manager.

You then say we should expect a relegation struggle. Why, after all the positive comments do you then essentially say, we are not that good. As I 've said, we've spent comparitively a lot of money, and other teams have signings to bed in, just like us. Make your mind up. It's like you think your some official defender of the club rather writing honestly.

The specific injuries are irrelevant, they are not a reason to EXPECT a struggle because they haven't occured.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Except that is not what you have been saying. If you thought as a starting point we would have finished eighth without certain injuries, then we are starting from a point much higher than a relegation threatened team. Then we've had all summer the constant raving of the players signed (full details of quite incredible abilities) as well as our exceptional manager.

You then say we should expect a relegation struggle. Why, after all the positive comments do you then essentially say, we are not that good. As I 've said, we've spent comparitively a lot of money, and other teams have signings to bed in, just like us. Make your mind up. It's like you think your some official defender of the club rather writing honestly.

The specific injuries are irrelevant, they are not a reason to EXPECT a struggle because they haven't occured.

honestly, why do i bother with this site? completely and utterly ridiculous response from you as usual. you seem to be the only person unable to understand the most basic concept. as such, there is literally no point ever discussing things with you so well done - you're back on the ignore list

 

[Guru of Ipswich]

to be fair to carrabuh he does have point about the injuries thing, its a pretty loose argument to say if you would have had Ruddy all season you could have possibly finished 8th. making that statement basically disregards other teams around you who might have had injuries as well, and could well be claiming the same thing.

Injuries are part and parcel of the game, every teams get them and its the managers job to build a squad strong enough to cope with them.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

to be fair to carrabuh he does have point about the injuries thing, its a pretty loose argument to say if you would have had Ruddy all season you could have possibly finished 8th. making that statement basically disregards other teams around you who might have had injuries as well, and could well be claiming the same thing.

Injuries are part and parcel of the game, every teams get them and its the managers job to build a squad strong enough to cope with them.

**** sake.

guru, you're as bad as carrabuh. read what i said properly. maybe the word required here is POTENTIALLY, because neither of you seem capable of understanding. we could have finished 8th, as indeed we could this season if we get a little luck and play well. of course other teams have injuries, suspensions etc - that is not the point! i genuinely believe had ruddy not got injured when he did and played through the whole season, not to mention the injuries to pilks and tettey were also badly timed for us, then i think we may well have finished 8th. we had nobody to replace pilkington on the left. i've not once said we were the 8th best team in the league - we weren't - if we were we'd still have finished 8th, regardless. we were the 11th best team in the league. that's surely the whole point of a ****ing league table!!! if you get injuries thats just tough - you get on with it - but that doesn't mean with a bit of luck we wouldn't have done better. had they stayed fit it may have had an adverse affect, and we finished 16th - who knows! its just a guess based on common sense.

the manager has now increased the quality in the squad so that we can POTENTIALLY cope with more serious injuries to key personnel, but that doesn't mean we will come 8th and it doesn't mean we suddenly should do! it means we have improved our own setup. others have done so too but as far as we are concerned, we have improved within the boundaries of the club - this simply cannot be questioned unless people seriously think the likes of surman and morison are as good as fer or rvw for example.

this is bordering on the insane now!

 

[Guru of Ipswich]

**** sake.

guru, you're as bad as carrabuh. read what i said properly. maybe the word required here is POTENTIALLY, because neither of you seem capable of understanding. we could have finished 8th, as indeed we could this season if we get a little luck and play well. of course other teams have injuries, suspensions etc - that is not the point! i genuinely believe had ruddy not got injured when he did and played through the whole season, not to mention the injuries to pilks and tettey were also badly timed for us, then i think we may well have finished 8th. we had nobody to replace pilkington on the left. i've not once said we were the 8th best team in the league - we weren't - if we were we'd still have finished 8th, regardless. we were the 11th best team in the league. that's surely the whole point of a ****ing league table!!! if you get injuries thats just tough - you get on with it - but that doesn't mean with a bit of luck we wouldn't have done better. had they stayed fit it may have had an adverse affect, and we finished 16th - who knows! its just a guess based on common sense.

the manager has now increased the quality in the squad so that we can POTENTIALLY cope with more serious injuries to key personnel, but that doesn't mean we will come 8th and it doesn't mean we suddenly should do! it means we have improved our own setup. others have done so too but as far as we are concerned, we have improved within the boundaries of the club - this simply cannot be questioned unless people seriously think the likes of surman and morison are as good as fer or rvw for example.

this is bordering on the insane now!

I do agree that where you finish in a league is where you deserve to be, after all thats the whole point of having a league table.

But in regards to this potentially finishing 8th malarky, do you think in what was a very, very close league last year that potentially there could have been another 6,7,8 or even 9 sides could have said, or could be saying the exact same thing as you. Its like me saying, we could have potentially won the league last year if we would have won more matches, its nonsense.

thats where im leaving it supers, ok fella.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

I do agree that where you finish in a league is where you deserve to be, after all thats the whole point of having a league table.

But in regards to this potentially finishing 8th malarky, do you think in what was a very, very close league last year that potentially there could have been another 6,7,8 or even 9 sides could have said, or could be saying the exact same thing as you. Its like me saying, we could have potentially won the league last year if we would have won more matches, its nonsense.

thats where im leaving it supers, ok fella.

abso-bloody-lutely, but i'm purely talking about norwich city. your example with ipswich is absolute stupid as ipswich were not capable of winning more matches with the people at their disposal, certainly not enough to win the league. norwich however, were capable of gaining an extra four points had they had their england keeper available to them for the whole season. for example, west brom may struggle this season without ben foster, who is critical to their season - their reserve keeper may not cope as well with the demands and they may end up losing games they would otherwise draw or win. if van persie got injured long term for man utd last season, do you think they'd have won the league? doubtful. all ifs and buts of course but would it really be a surprise if an england keeper helped earn his side an extra four or five points a season over a number two? not really, and that was my point - we could, with a little more luck, have been looking at a season where we finished 8th. we didn't, so we weren't the 8th best team. simple as that. had ruddy not come back for our last two games its very possible we may have finished 16th (where we'd have finished had we not won our final two games)

 

[Fenland Canary]

woh, calm down everyone, the way NCFC fans argue on this site you'd think they support opposite teams.

 

[robbieBB]

That's "Whoa!" Fenland ........... #scarper smiley

 

[Fenland Canary]

That's "Whoa!" Fenland ........... #scarper smiley

Your one of the worse Robbie, you and your doggone pedantic nature!, I propose a peace thread, where only calm and happy discussions are allowed. No CH bashing, just a happy and positive NCFC love fest!

 

[canary-dave]

Your one of the worse Robbie, you and your doggone pedantic nature!, I propose a peace thread, where only calm and happy discussions are allowed. No CH bashing, just a happy and positive NCFC love fest!

By God you'll get lonely!