Off Topic Bill Nicholson Arms

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Yid Vicious said:
Fair enough. I still don't agree that it counts as a rare resource because it's artificially made rare by a supplier holding some back which are to be sold later, creating a spike in price which doesn't match the spike in demand.

I appreciate what you're saying though and whilst I think I'd agree with what you're saying about the problems highlighted by this case, in capitalism's defence this should be illegal and is in most forms.
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On your first point the shortage is actually created by so many season tickets being sold relative to the stadium capacity which in essence means that the Club is selling these too cheaply. If they used the market concept here they would simply work out how much revenue they needed before the season started and then sell an appropriate amount of tickets to the highest bidders rather than reward the loyalty of current season ticket holders. Since they've decided not to do this it makes it even more odd that they are making the season tickets more valuable by the uncapped sell on opportunity which is simply going to encourage current season ticket holders to retain their ticket even if they are not going to use it as they can probably make a profit by selling all the individual matches. So those of us on the waiting list will have an even longer wait.
 
Spursguru said:
I don't understand why the government cant find adequate people to manage railways lines and services instead of us getting ripped off by Cartels..sorry companies.
Why can't they employ people to do the same thing Virgin, South eastern etc do, but put all profits back into better services, trains, lines etc?
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Because they don't want to. This way they don't have to take the blame if things go wrong, the same people still pay for everything and some rich people get richer.
Said rich people then give the political parties money and the politicians jobs on boards, so they win on all fronts. <ok>
 
Spursguru said:
Then again, I don't understand why the government cant find adequate people to manage railways lines and services instead of us getting ripped off by Cartels..sorry companies.
Why can't they employ people to do the same thing Virgin, South eastern etc do, but put all profits back into better services, trains, lines etc?
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Every time I've come back from Japan and had to use the British railway system, it's a culture shock.

In Japan, the railways are cheap (it costs around £1.50 to go from one side of Tokyo to the other), service is fast and efficient, and the carriages are clean and there is plenty of room. Then you go back to using the British ones - expensive tickets, unreliable service, trains that often crawl along at low speeds, filthy carriages that're caked in chewing gum where you're standing nose to armpit with a complete stranger (and nobody dares sit in the empty first class section)

...and then I remember I'm off to Japan next week, so I'm going to be miserable on the way back from Heathrow all over again.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Every time I've come back from Japan and had to use the British railway system, it's a culture shock.

In Japan, the railways are cheap (it costs around £1.50 to go from one side of Tokyo to the other), service is fast and efficient, and the carriages are clean and there is plenty of room. Then you go back to using the British ones - expensive tickets, unreliable service, trains that often crawl along at low speeds, filthy carriages that're caked in chewing gum where you're standing nose to armpit with a complete stranger (and nobody dares sit in the empty first class section)

...and then I remember I'm off to Japan next week, so I'm going to be miserable on the way back from Heathrow all over again.
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Well to put things in perspective it could be worse, you could not be off to japan like pretty much the rest of us.
 
PowerSpurs said:
On your first point the shortage is actually created by so many season tickets being sold relative to the stadium capacity which in essence means that the Club is selling these too cheaply. If they used the market concept here they would simply work out how much revenue they needed before the season started and then sell an appropriate amount of tickets to the highest bidders rather than reward the loyalty of current season ticket holders. Since they've decided not to do this it makes it even more odd that they are making the season tickets more valuable by the uncapped sell on opportunity which is simply going to encourage current season ticket holders to retain their ticket even if they are not going to use it as they can probably make a profit by selling all the individual matches. So those of us on the waiting list will have an even longer wait.
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This is the very point I made last month. Not only is the deal with Stub Hub a complete horror of a decision, it also means those who pay extra on membership to get on the season ticket waiting list, are also being mugged because you'd have to be a fool to give up your season ticket now.

Anyway, whatever side of the fence people are on his, please take it from me there are literally hundreds of fans complaining to the club about this new scheme. At least one meeting has taken place with fans representatives meeting ticket office staff and I believe another is imminent. How effective the fans' protests will be is probably not a great deal, as the club seem to be determined to dig their heels in on this one and ride out the storm.
 
I have to say I could hardly have enjoyed the atmosphere at WHL more. I'll note the atmosphere was even better against Tbilisi than Swansea, even though it wasn't a packed house, presumably due to cheaper tickets attracting a livelier crowd.

I was surprised how expensive the London Underground was--despite finding most London prices considerably lower than I expected. Seven pounds for a ticket? A New York subway ticket is $2.50 (a pound and a half or so). It's bad to pay that much for public transit because it's a completely regressive tax. Subsidizing it down to a couple of pounds a ticket at most is good policy. I will say the service was just as good as in NYC, and the atmosphere considerably more pleasant.
 
Maybe we should move this convo to the stubhub thread, (I'm sure there was one...) this is going to be an ongoing saga.
 
Yid Vicious said:
Totally disagree. Just because you want something it doesn't mean you should be held by your ankles and shook upside down until they've got every penny out of you.

It's disgusting that people are being allowed to legally tout tickets.



I've never known someone to hate Spurs fans so much, you even make Arsenal fans on derby day seem pleasant. If you were prepared to give Spurs fans some credit for one millisecond you might note that the atmosphere has gone down as prices have gone up and fans who have been going for years have given up their ST.

There are more important principles then supply and demand. It's a very blunt way of looking at things so with that in mind maybe everything should be auctioned on eBay, may the richest man win.
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Hi YV, I think you should wander over to West Ham, Arsenal and Chelsea forums a bit more, then you'll see what hating Spurs fans is all about <ok>.

And of course I've noticed the atmosphere going down as prices go up, I've been going a lot longer than you have, or have you forgotten that. It's a point I've made time and again, 'old school' supporters who want to sing, shout and swear our heads off are no longer welcome at grounds these days.

There's a phrase quite common on various forums these days 'Modern football is ****' referring to the atmosphere in grounds these days - It's one I subscribe to.
There is no more important principle in economics than supply and demand AFAIK, so there's another area you might want to explore some more.

If Spurs had a worthwhile atmosphere then I'd be annoyed about Stub Hub- but what's the difference between a StubHub seller and buyer, my guess is ... the price.

I doubt we get more noise and committed support out of one rather the other. If there is a substantial difference then I might get outraged.
 
PowerSpurs said:
While I agree that it is exploitation, it is also supply and demand. One of the things that always confuses me is that almost everyone in the country votes for political parties that support naked capitalism and anyone who argues against that is called a looney. But as soon as naked capitalism is applied to anything they actually care about they are up in arms. Not a criticism of you YV, just a generalisation.

Incidentally this has been legal for Wimbledon debenture tickets for years, but it is not allowed for Wimbledon ballot tickets or Club Wembley tickets - these you are not allowed to sell on except via the Club Wembley web-site which restricts the price you can charge.

Men's final debenture tickets at Wimbledon were going at more than £3,000 last time I looked. I've seen a serious argument that Wimbledon should price the tickets currently sold in the ballot at 'what the market will bear' on the grounds that this would raise more money to develop British tennis.
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Well said PS - time and again we vote in the Tories

Loads of people loved Thatcher

Prem football is capitalism gone manic and then some with the wages, transfers, debts etc - yet suddenly we're getting all 'socialist' about ticket sell ons - comical indeed
 
redwhiteandermblue said:
I have to say I could hardly have enjoyed the atmosphere at WHL more. I'll note the atmosphere was even better against Tbilisi than Swansea, even though it wasn't a packed house, presumably due to cheaper tickets attracting a livelier crowd.

I was surprised how expensive the London Underground was--despite finding most London prices considerably lower than I expected. Seven pounds for a ticket? A New York subway ticket is $2.50 (a pound and a half or so). It's bad to pay that much for public transit because it's a completely regressive tax. Subsidizing it down to a couple of pounds a ticket at most is good policy. I will say the service was just as good as in NYC, and the atmosphere considerably more pleasant.
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Well said, was Stub Hub an issue with Tibilsi no - was the atmosphere better - apparently yes - because the priies were lower and a lot of the 'regulars' or 'stub Hubites' weren't there.

I find the most miserable sods at the Lane tend to be regular STHs, who get right on my wick time and time again. It's like they've got a regular place and when someone like me comes along who wants to sign and shout instead of moan, groan and bore on with their inane two bob analyses, they don't like it.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
Every time I've come back from Japan and had to use the British railway system, it's a culture shock.

In Japan, the railways are cheap (it costs around £1.50 to go from one side of Tokyo to the other), service is fast and efficient, and the carriages are clean and there is plenty of room.
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Perhaps there's more dying from radiation sickness than they're letting on, or maybe the two headed ones are confusing the headcount.
 
notsosmartspur said:
Perhaps there's more dying from radiation sickness than they're letting on, or maybe the two headed ones are confusing the headcount.
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On the Tokyo subway system, a train arrives every minute all day, every day. It takes an earthquake, typhoon or giant lizard attacking the city to affect that - and not for that long, given the Tokyo subway was up and running a couple of hours after the earthquake a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, in London, a train arrived every 2-4 minutes, and that's only during weekdays and not on every line, and the service gets frequently delayed.

Another way to put it is the Shinkansen considers the train arriving at its destination two minutes behind schedule as "late" and that entitles all passengers to a full refund, whilst on our services the definition of "late" on any train, local or cross-country, it is eleven minutes and passengers accept it.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
On the Tokyo subway system, a train arrives every minute all day, every day. It takes an earthquake, typhoon or giant lizard attacking the city to affect that - and not for that long, given the Tokyo subway was up and running a couple of hours after the earthquake a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, in London, a train arrived every 2-4 minutes, and that's only during weekdays and not on every line, and the service gets frequently delayed.

Another way to put it is the Shinkansen considers the train arriving at its destination two minutes behind schedule as "late" and that entitles all passengers to a full refund, whilst on our services the definition of "late" on any train, local or cross-country, it is eleven minutes and passengers accept it.
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I know, was there when air wasn't on the Curie Scale, I was early on the bandwagon of jap import sport cars...Oyasuminasai.
 
humanbeingincroydon said:
On the Tokyo subway system, a train arrives every minute all day, every day. It takes an earthquake, typhoon or giant lizard attacking the city to affect that - and not for that long, given the Tokyo subway was up and running a couple of hours after the earthquake a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, in London, a train arrived every 2-4 minutes, and that's only during weekdays and not on every line, and the service gets frequently delayed.

Another way to put it is the Shinkansen considers the train arriving at its destination two minutes behind schedule as "late" and that entitles all passengers to a full refund, whilst on our services the definition of "late" on any train, local or cross-country, it is eleven minutes and passengers accept it.
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Did you see that video the other day where a passenger fell under a train and was trapped under there by the platform? The emergency services were called but the passengers on the platform tilted the train and got the trapped passenger out. The delay on the line was something stupid like 4mins.
In london, they would have shut the line, the other lines, the roads and probably closed the airports.
 
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