Our Slow Build Up

[rabbitspectrum]

After 4 games and no goals from open play I think it would be fair to call into question our style of play particularly against defensive teams. I just watched the extended highlights and against west Ham we created 0 chances from slow build up

Chance 1, two forward passes from own half, direct run from rodriguez who cuts back from byeline which sees osvaldo blast a low ball that is well saved
Chance 2, wanyama misplaces pass forward, defensive mistake by collins, pass forward from lambert to osvaldo, poor clearance, ball falls to lambert who hits it first time
Chance 3, Ball cleared to wanyama who hits a volley from 25 yards
Chance 4, from resulting corner lallana delivers a great corner to lambert whose header hits the post.
Chance 5, from rebound off the post ball falls to wanyama whose shot is blocked by collins
Chance 6, boruc rolls to fonte who hits it route 1 to lambert, balls clears both him and his marker landing at the feet of osvaldo who quickly turns and passes to lallana in acres of space, a poor touch prevents him getting a scuffed shot away.
Chance 7, Lambert receives the ball 10 yards diagonally left of the centre circle, turns and hits a long diagonal ball to rodriguez whose cut back reaches osvaldo who gets a blocked shot away
Chance 8, from the rebound schneiderlin hits a bicycle kick which is headed behind for a corner by reid
Chance 9, from a cleared lallana corner wanyama's first time shot is blocked
Chance 10, Osvaldo passes square to wanyama in own half, wanyama passes forwards to schneiderlin who dribbles to within shooting range, plays it square to lallana who then finds rodriguez with a first time pass, rodriguez delays delays slightly before crossing to schneiderlin for a first time volley
Chance 11, from the resulting corner lallana's ball is headed well wide by fonte
Chance 12, Rodriguez recieves the ball just forward of the middle of the pitch drives forward, passes wide left to Lambert who hits a good curving shot first time
Chance 13, From a jwp freekick fonte lunges for the ball but is unable to get a clean shot away
Chance 14, From a cleared cross wanyama sprays a left footed shot wide

Chance 15 the extended highlights didn't show lallana's quickly taken freekick that saw shaw get to the byeline and put the a low ball into the box, and there may have been other chances that i am unaware of.

Only chance 10 was a chance created by a string of passes but it was the result of 1 or 2 touch forwards passes and direct dribbling. Probably the only time we have created a decent chance from slow build up is against sunderland when jwp was putting in crosses.

If we are to break defensive teams down we must play direct football at a higher tempo as every game under Pochettino has demonstrated.

 

[......loading......]

So your point is that we don't play slow all the time? I don't understand what you are trying to prove. No one thinks slow build up does all the work. Slow build up is a derogatory way of describing probing possession football. You probe qnd then lunge with something faster. If it is a long ball or a quick one two, the idea is the same.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

So your point is that we don't play slow all the time? I don't understand what you are trying to prove. No one thinks slow build up does all the work. Slow build up is a derogatory way of describing probing possession football. You probe qnd then lunge with something faster. If it is a long ball or a quick one two, the idea is the same.

My point is that slow ball hasn't worked for us and that when we have played with a quicker tempo and more direct style we have created good chances. If you watched the west ham game you would have seen that when we tried to play it out from the back or play slow possession football we didn't create a single chance.

We didn't probe and then lunge with something faster and haven't done so under pochettino with any effect.

 

[Clem Fandango]

If Lallana's touch, or Osvaldo's finishing, or Lambert's luck were any better, I don't think anyone would be criticising the build up play.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

If Lallana's touch, or Osvaldo's finishing, or Lambert's luck were any better, I don't think anyone would be criticising the build up play.

Equally if diame had have scored or collins hadn't have blazed over the bar or nolan's goal hadn't have been disallowed for a previous marginal offside there would be even more criticism of our ineffective style of play.

The 2 examples you mention were from direct high tempo attacking football and the other 1 was from a corner. When we looked to play it out from the back we looked woefully ineffective. Its a step in the right direction to pick more direct players and when we did play direct we created some great chances however our tactic was more often than not to play it out from the back with a slow indirect style of play which was not effective.

 

[Beddy]

My criticism if anything is the predictability of our probing, of our passing from the back and across the back in Sunday's game.
There did not seem enough options, we did not create spaces for the defenders to put the ball into, as a consequence they were forced into errors. We have to be a lot more cunning in the disguise of the passing, more unpredictable........

 

[rabbitspectrum]

My criticism if anything is the predictability of our probing, of our passing from the back and across the back in Sunday's game.
There did not seem enough options, we did not create spaces for the defenders to put the ball into, as a consequence they were forced into errors. We have to be a lot more cunning in the disguise of the passing, more unpredictable........

I think its actually very difficult to probe with men behind the ball and a direct style of play is able to bypass the midfield minefield which creates more space and that is why we were able to create good chances when we went direct rather than trying to probe our way through 10 men.

 

[Archers Road]

My point is that slow ball hasn't worked for us and that when we have played with a quicker tempo and more direct style we have created good chances. If you watched the west ham game you would have seen that when we tried to play it out from the back or play slow possession football we didn't create a single chance.

We didn't probe and then lunge with something faster and haven't done so under pochettino with any effect.

You have noticed, I take it, that there are two teams on every pitch? And that the tempo of a game is determined by both? Would you have us just give the ball away because the opposition are doing a good job of holding their shape?

It's true we looked most threatening when countering a rare West Ham attack, because that was when they lost their shape and left a bit of space for our midfield to exploit. But you have to be patient and wait for those opportunities, you can't always force it.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

You have noticed, I take it, that there are two teams on every pitch? And that the tempo of a game is determined by both? Would you have us just give the ball away because the opposition are doing a good job of holding their shape?

It's true we looked most threatening when countering a rare West Ham attack, because that was when they lost their shape and left a bit of space for our midfield to exploit. But you have to be patient and wait for those opportunities, you can't always force it.

We determine whether we play direct or not, lallanas chance was from fontes route 1 hoof etc.

 

[Archers Road]

We determine whether we play direct or not, lallanas chance was from fontes route 1 hoof etc.

No. Lallana's chance came when there was space for Osvaldo to play him in, because Fonte's upfield ball followed a West Ham attack. Every time we threatened (as I remember it, I haven't spent all day re-watching MOTD) was when West Ham allowed us space. I totally disagree that one team can determine how the game is played, certainly not for 90 mins.Even Barcelona couldn't do that, at Celtic Park for example.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

No. Lallana's chance came when there was space for Osvaldo to play him in, because Fonte's upfield ball followed a West Ham attack. Every time we threatened (as I remember it, I haven't spent all day re-watching MOTD) was when West Ham allowed us space. I totally disagree that one team can determine how the game is played, certainly not for 90 mins.Even Barcelona couldn't do that, at Celtic Park for example.

We created the space for our chances through direct high tempo football. And we didn't create space when we played slow possession football. This is not a coincidence and due to West Ham allowing us space as you put it. They actually did a very good job of denying us space but we played into their hands by trying to play through their midfield.

 

[pass the football]

We created the space for our chances through direct high tempo football. And we didn't create space when we played slow possession football. This is not a coincidence and due to West Ham allowing us space as you put it. They actually did a very good job of denying us space but we played into their hands by trying to play through their midfield.

Without any wingers or deep-lying forwards we had no other option really. Say what you like about Allardyce, but he'd done his homework on us and his strategy worked.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

Without any wingers or deep-lying forwards we had no other option really. Say what you like about Allardyce, but he'd done his homework on us and his strategy worked.

As in no other option than to play it through the midfield? I think we had options when we put them under a bit of pressure with quicker movement of the ball and ran at them. Part of the idea of playing it around the back is that it is meant to draw the oppositions defence forward and open up a bit of space but if you aren't passing it at a reasonable tempo it defeats the purpose of the play and its just keeping possession for possessions sake. Which is something that we have been guilty of in all 4 games so far.

The fullbacks would have a chance of creating width if we passed it quicker and with more fluency in midfield, as we did in the early stage against West Brom where Shaw received the ball in space and was able to run at the defence.

It must be said West Ham were excellent at preventing any control of the midfield and perhaps playing 2 strikers is limiting our ability to control the ball in midfield. Against Norwich when we played a narrow 4-3-1-2 there would have been ample room for the fullbacks and I would suggest that would be the tactic to play if we are going to persist with Osvaldo and Lambert which we should as they are excellent players.

 

[pass the football]

When the full-backs are effectively marked, like Shaw was by Diamé, that severely limits their attacking potential though. West Ham's game plan was spot on, pressurise Wanyama and Schneiderlin, mark Shaw out of the game, and with our four attackers all too far away we had no way to get the ball out of the defensive half (hence the short passing around the back that you note), other than with a long ball which their defence could deal with relatively easily. In the second half Lallana played deeper and Schneiderlin got forward more, and we did create more, but by then we had left it too late.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you may have a point, but I think the formation was the biggest problem.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

West Ham's tactics worked in the sense that we didn't score, but, if it really worked, we wouldn't even have had chances to score. They could easily have lost by a couple of goals (and, concomitantly, they could have won by a goal). Improve our finishing (or not have an opposition goalkeeper who is MOTM) and we would have won. I suspect our style will be different against Liverpool...I'm sure it will be a pacier game.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

West Ham's tactics worked in the sense that we didn't score, but, if it really worked, we wouldn't even have had chances to score. They could easily have lost by a couple of goals (and, concomitantly, they could have won by a goal). Improve our finishing (or not have an opposition goalkeeper who is MOTM) and we would have won. I suspect our style will be different against Liverpool...I'm sure it will be a pacier game.

Given that they had no strike force and were quite seriously weakened elsewhere and we had a fully fit and superior team its fair to say pochettino was tactically outclassed.

I don't think pochettino saying that we were unlucky 3 weeks in a row and that hopefully the dynamic will change is good enough. Its up to him to change the dynamic by getting us playing more directly and at a higher tempo. We have been abject going forward for quite a lot of this season and have dropped points as a result. The Liverpool game will be different but there quite clearly needs to be a change in tactics if we are going to break defensive teams down in the future.

 

[Joe!]

We haven't been playing a slow build up.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

We haven't been playing a slow build up.

We quite clearly have. How would you describe the way we play it out from the back it is hardly fast paced and when the ball is further advanced the tempo doesn't speed up considerably either? We have been slow in possession against defensive teams and haven't been able to break down any of them.

 

[Archers Road]

Given that they had no strike force and were quite seriously weakened elsewhere and we had a fully fit and superior team its fair to say pochettino was tactically outclassed.

I don't think pochettino saying that we were unlucky 3 weeks in a row and that hopefully the dynamic will change is good enough. Its up to him to change the dynamic by getting us playing more directly and at a higher tempo. We have been abject going forward for quite a lot of this season and have dropped points as a result. The Liverpool game will be different but there quite clearly needs to be a change in tactics if we are going to break defensive teams down in the future.

No it isn't. That statement's nonsense. Football's played on the pitch, not on a screen or a wipeboard. You're over analysing and missing the key point, which is that we were easily the better team on Sunday. You also seem blind to the fact that we showed plenty of signs that the team are beginning to gel.

 

[rabbitspectrum]

No it isn't. That statement's nonsense. Football's played on the pitch, not on a screen or a wipeboard. You're over analysing and missing the key point, which is that we were easily the better team on Sunday. You also seem blind to the fact that we showed plenty of signs that the team are beginning to gel.

We were the better team on Sunday by virtue of having superior players even so we could easily have lost the match. We were tactically outclassed for all of the first half, probably why pochettino kept the team back for so long and wanyama didn't even start the second half.

The team are playing better but that doesn't take away from the fact that the tactics were wrong against west ham, and they were wrong against norwich (no width etc. read the thread 'tactical analysis').