How long do we give him?

[GozoCanary]

Carrabuh made a perfectly good point. CH hasn't had two games, he has had a year and two games.

Ah, but he didn't have his own players. Half true, because several of the players last year were his choice. And he also managed to ignore a couple of the old squad, including one who was voted third in the player of the season. Well, now he does have his own players, so that excuse will wear thin in a few months if things don't pick up.

Ah, but he got us to eleventh in the league (subtext: Lambert only managed twelfth). True. But he also got us much closer to a relegation battle than Lambert did.

CH should have a fair crack of the whip (and we can debate what and how long that means) but we should not have to do a soviet-style papering over the cracks before we send the dissidents for re-education.

 

[Qwerty]

Blimey folks, where did all that optimism go, you only lost 1-0 to a pen and you've still got your best signing to come in. Who you gonna get better? Please don't say Arry... Anyway see you Saturday.

 

[ncgandy]

Blimey folks, where did all that optimism go, you only lost 1-0 to a pen and you've still got your best signing to come in. Who you gonna get better? Please don't say Arry... Anyway see you Saturday.

I still have it, best I've felt for many a year with the incredible transfer window we've witnessed.

Some people (no names) will always be negative, they're entitled/welcome to their opinions. Not much more to be said.

 

[Fenland Canary]

Just logged on for the first time in a few days and was going to start a thread along the same lines. Last year I got really pissed off with CH for his continual, boring, "let's just make sure we don't lose" football and did kick off once or twice on here to that effect. The fact that we did invariably lose made things worse, however we made it over the line and I for one was willing to give CH a chance. We have brought in some really good players over the summer but, notwithstanding the fact we've had a few injuries, two games in and there's no real improvement. CH has added real quality to the squad so unless things improve dramatically and soon the natives will be calling for his head. If these players are under performing or playing dire football it is down to one man and one man only, I can't be the only one who's hearing the rumblings of discontent among City fans already can I ?
Rightly or wrongly there will be the first chants of 'Hughton Out' at Carrow Road on Saturday if we fail to beat Bury tonight and then lose to Saints with another abject display mark my words. Personally, I'm not calling for his head just yet but if results don't improve quickly I'm afraid I will. The signs are there a la Roeder that a change of direction in our overall play is needed IMO and if it is not forthcoming PDQ a similar outcome is on the cards. I pray that McNally doesn't leave it too late before he does something about it.
4 wins in the last 23 Premier League games is just not good enough !

Never mind saints, I think if we draw or lose to Bury CH's head will be on the block(in many fans minds). I guess I'm a patient person, I'm giving him ten games & if we are losing and drawing I will be shouting "off with his head!". I can see where people are coming from I just think now that he has the quality in place we should give him a good few games to see what he does with it.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

I still have it, best I've felt for many a year with the incredible transfer window we've witnessed.

Some people (no names) will always be negative, they're entitled/welcome to their opinions. Not much more to be said.

If one of those names you don't mention is mine then I can assure you that I am not generally negative, never have been and never will be. I am however a realist, in that I call it just as I see it, and always have done. I feel some people on here might need to have a dose of reality and perhaps take the rose-tinted blinkers off from time to time as well

 

[robbieBB]

......... I feel some people on here might need to have a dose of reality and perhaps take the rose-tinted blinkers off from time to time as well

How's this for a dose of reality then?

Are people on here really in favour of destabilising the club when we are in the best position we have been in for decades? The objectives that really mattered as regards the long term well-being of NCFC have actually been achieved by survival last year. We have now entered a completely different situation: we are financially sound for maybe the first time in the club's history (previously we have always relied either upon the directors pumping in money to balance the books, or selling our best player every year); we have one of the best squads the club has ever had; we have an excellent PL ground and top-class training facilities; we have a thriving Level 1 academy; and we have a manager who is almost universally respected and admired in the game and for whom good players are happy to sign. What reason is there for impatience at any time?

Furthermore, what do people think will be gained? A moment's reflection on our summer signings will tell us that, while we have made some excellent ones, we have failed to capture our more high profile targets -- Alderweireld, Quagliarella, Toivenon. That in turn tells us that NCFC hasn't yet achieved the status required to attract players of that quality in the prime of their careers. Exactly the same applies to managers. Who exactly do people think is a realistic target to replace and improve on Chris Hughton?

To get to that next level the club needs stability, not to be thrown into turmoil by impatient fans who seem unable to recognise just how good things are.

 

[Canary Rob]

To be fair to Carrabuh though he does have a point, surely?

I don't buy this simplistic nonsense about how Hootun finally has his team this year compared to last season where he was playing with another man's (ie Lambert) squad. Did he not bring in Bassong, Turner, Whittaker, Garrido, Tettey, Becchio (cough, cough), Snodgrass last season? He didn't take over halfway through the season like Di Canio or Pochettino, he had the entire season to mould his squad and get them to play in his style and I think we were all in agreement that the football played (apart from just 2/3 out of 40 odd games) was pretty dire throughout.

Two games in and both of those have been pretty dire as well. And please don't try to tell me the Everton game was a great performance, it was a slight improvement on last year, but we were still outclassed from pretty much start to finish by a club who (believe it or not) have a brand new manager with new players - so shouldn't we apply this "it's not his team" mantra to Martinez and therefore have expected to win the game?

Or does it not work like that?

Sorry - I wasn't clear. I am not disputing Carrabuh's point. But Carrabuh's point was made by misdepicting the post he was responding to.

Hughton's past performance should definitely be taken into account, as should every other variable we can conceive.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

@Robbie

I have never once said I want Hootun out, I just want the teams he puts out on match day to play in a more expansive and, dare I say it, interesting to watch style.

Sorry, but how would that de-stabilise the club exactly?

 

[THURNBY CANARY]

I think there are mixed messages currently with some members calling for managerial change and others callign for a change of style (and some for both). The de-stabilisation comes from the former whereas Munky your point was the second. That I think is the answer to your point

 

[Fenland Canary]

I'm not fussed if the football is expansive or attacking or interesting. All I care about is survival, CH played defensively last season and we achieved 11th, personally I'd take 11th again this season given how competitive the league is going to be. Looking at Cardiff City I get the feeling that there is going to be a free spot at the bottom of the table and I just don't want it to be us. It's alright people saying CH out but who would we replace him with? there's not exactly a glut of amazing jobless managers out there.

 

[woodbine]

If we were to judge Hughton from last season as well, we actually had better results than under Lambert...

I can see what CH is trying to do, making us tougher to beat which isn't a bad thing and I don't believe at all he is being negative, 14 or more attempts on Saturday so I don't understand the people saying we didn't create anything, it's the players fault for not finishing them better.

Nothing wrong with being a bit negative and questioning CH tactics, but it does sometimes feel some people are always negative, when we do have a good game we don't hear from certain people until we have another bad game...

 

[robbieBB]

@Robbie

I have never once said I want Hootun out, I just want the teams he puts out on match day to play in a more expansive and, dare I say it, interesting to watch style.

Sorry, but how would that de-stabilise the club exactly?

My post was a follow up to previous ones about "patience" (which apparently is measured in months, or some short sequence of matches such as 6 or 10), and also KIO predicting dire consequences in the stands if x, y or z doesn't happen tonight and Saturday. Your post simply provided me with a nice continuity line Munky. KIO is apparently praying that McNally doesn't leave it too long before sacking CH. If he is right in his assessment, I'd suggest praying that McNally doesn't start asking himself why the hell he bothers and just leaves.

 

[surgeryman]

My thoughts

A bit too soon to sack but things need to be assessed 10 games in (although I have my thoughts on how this will pan out). We need points on the board early doors as our run in dire. Its his team now.

There are managers out there if there was change, who would be tempted Poyet, Di Matteo ..etc (there may be others) and we may well appeal to a manger who is currently employed, Carl Robinson for example. There may be overseas options a la Saints.

Am looking forward to the reserve game tonight though!

 

[KIO]

My post was a follow up to previous ones about "patience" (which apparently is measured in months, or some short sequence of matches such as 6 or 10), and also KIO predicting dire consequences in the stands if x, y or z doesn't happen tonight and Saturday. Your post simply provided me with a nice continuity line Munky. KIO is apparently praying that McNally doesn't leave it too long before sacking CH. If he is right in his assessment, I'd suggest praying that McNally doesn't start asking himself why the hell he bothers and just leaves.

If you read my post again I said that I wasn't calling for his head just yet. IF things do not improve THEN I hope McNally doesn't leave it too late before taking action THAT was my point. Having seen what happened when it all went pear-shaped under Rodent, I was merely making the point that it was too late when he was eventually dismissed. Tell me Robbie, what makes you think that things are going to improve ? What green shoots do you see ? I'll say it yet again, 4 wins in 24 games

 

[KIO]

My thoughts

A bit too soon to sack but things need to be assessed 10 games in (although I have my thoughts on how this will pan out). We need points on the board early doors as our run in dire. Its his team now.

There are managers out there if there was change, who would be tempted Poyet, Di Matteo ..etc (there may be others) and we may well appeal to a manger who is currently employed, Carl Robinson for example. There may be overseas options a la Saints.

Am looking forward to the reserve game tonight though!

I seem to recall that McNally said a German was in the frame before CH was appointed ? And I agree 10 games in is the time to asess matters or sooner if we are stuck in the bottom three winless

 

[Canary Rob]

If you read my post again I said that I wasn't calling for his head just yet. IF things do not improve THEN I hope McNally doesn't leave it too late before taking action THAT was my point. Having seen what happened when it all went pear-shaped under Rodent, I was merely making the point that it was too late when he was eventually dismissed. Tell me Robbie, what makes you think that things are going to improve ? What green shoots do you see ? I'll say it yet again, 4 wins in 24 games

I know it wasn't to me, but I'll list (non-exhaustively) the green shoots I see:
(1) new signings, all of whom seem to be a step up (even Elmander I thought looked a decent handful)
(2) unfit senior players suggests that there is a lot more to come from this team
(3) even missing two of our most creative players in Pilks and Snodders (who was clearly not fully fit, but when he was created the second highest number of clear cut chances in the entire prem last season) we have still made many more chances than last season
(4) there has been less hoofball in the last two matches, but we have been up against highly motivated teams, both of whom were praised for their performances - not all teams will play so well against us
(5) the players who had bad days Saturday are usually much better, so we can be assured that this was partly an off day
(6) we are passing more, just the execution was poor (and yet the completion was still 84%!)
(7) the style, substitution timings and set-up has been very different

 

[robbieBB]

If you read my post again I said that I wasn't calling for his head just yet. IF things do not improve THEN I hope McNally doesn't leave it too late before taking action THAT was my point. Having seen what happened when it all went pear-shaped under Rodent, I was merely making the point that it was too late when he was eventually dismissed. Tell me Robbie, what makes you think that things are going to improve ? What green shoots do you see ? I'll say it yet again, 4 wins in 24 games

I read your post. You said "I'm not calling for his head just yet but if results don't improve quickly I'm afraid I will". "Quickly" puts you in the same frame as the other posters whose time scales range from 6 games to Christmas. I don't believe for a moment you mean as long even as Christmas.

In answer to your question about green shoots/improvement/grounds for optimism, (a) see Rob's post above, (b) go back over my recent posts on various threads (I realise you haven't been on the board recently so you have probably missed some of the discussion).

 

[Boss]

As a club and fans you have to ask yourself when you went on that great run last year, was it a one-off, as in a a run which wasn't going to be a consistant sign of the form under hughton, or was it down to hughton and showing the potential thats possible?

The fact you have won 4 games in 24 tells me it was a one off.

There is a very similar situation going on at west brom, they had a superb run and have gone a similar run as yours, something like 4 wins in 20 odd games.

Both Clarke and Hughton have spent their early careers mainly as assistant managers, although Hughton made the break sooner, I personally feel hughton is going to struggle to get you out of this rot and if you're ambitions are higher then a relegation battle, you would need a new manager.

yet then you have to ask, do we have the resources to be better? can we be a mid table team? with the right manager, yes.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

"14 attempts at goal" now is it? The number seems to keep going up and up

In all seriousness though, were there really that many actual attempts on goal? I know this figure includes those off target, and I wasn't at the game, but I watched it all online and if I'm being honest I am struggling to remember many more than half a dozen or so what you'd call proper efforts on their goal.

And pot shots from 20+ yards against a keeper known for his shot-stopping ability just sound like they are making the numbers up to me as we never really threatened their goal from many of them. RVW and Fer's headers were the only two real efforts of note from inside the box that I recall.

 

[woodbine]

"14 attempts at goal" now is it? The number seems to keep going up and up

That was the stat on the stream I was watching on.