Don't like it but...

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

nope felt he was the same during what I saw of pre season and the end of last season. Just my opinion guys.

so you're writing a player off after one competitive game and a pre season game or two?

point still stands - he just had a poor game. he's certainly been overtaken by a few players now who have more quality but he's still a useful player. he's not past it.

 

[Dazz19]

He's not past it, but some of his decisions were off yesterday.

He'll be the same Wes we've seen since he signed. He'll be unplayable one day and the subdued the next. The problem with him is when he's good, he's so good that when he has an off day he looks awful.

 

[Pablofarmer]

so you're writing a player off after one competitive game and a pre season game or two?

point still stands - he just had a poor game. he's certainly been overtaken by a few players now who have more quality but he's still a useful player. he's not past it.

Nope I thought he was poor at the end of last season too. I have said that.
Problem is that there is a big Wes love in, and people dont see past it.
I know he is useful, can change games (all of which I have said in this thread), but more and more I am finding he is being found out to quickly by the opposition. You know what he is going to do.

Stop the ball, spin left and run.

I believe he needs to adapt his game and think more about passing it quickly than trying to take on the whole of the other team.
you can disagree with me all you like but please don't write off my opinion as new season panic, I am not that stupid.

 

[JM Fan]

He's not past it, but some of his decisions were off yesterday.

He'll be the same Wes we've seen since he signed. He'll be unplayable one day and the subdued the next. The problem with him is when he's good, he's so good that when he has an off day he looks awful.

Nope I thought he was poor at the end of last season too. I have said that.
Problem is that there is a big Wes love in, and people dont see past it.
I know he is useful, can change games (all of which I have said in this thread), but more and more I am finding he is being found out to quickly by the opposition. You know what he is going to do.

Stop the ball, spin left and run.

I believe he needs to adapt his game and think more about passing it quickly than trying to take on the whole of the other team.
you can disagree with me all you like but please don't write off my opinion as new season panic, I am not that stupid.

He certainly had an 'off day' on Sat!!!!

Pablo - EXCELLENT post and very accurate. I would like to see him come on as a a sub, rather than start in future.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

i agree with dazz.

he's a bit of a confidence player, always has been. when things aren't quite clicking for him he goes into his shell and that was the case on saturday, so when he did get the ball he struggled to get his head up. when he's playing well, as he was first half of last season, he looks an outstanding player. but this has always been the case, ever since he signed. he's hit and miss but why write him off? he just had a very poor game. does that mean if he has a very good game next week we should build our side around him?

no. and i don't see the evidence for this supposed hoolahan 'love in' that keeps being mentioned. what exactly is this based on?

 

[Walsh.i.am]

I think playing a single striker - as CH looks very likely to do, the danger is that they can get very isolated (just ask Grant Holt )

Howson is 6 years younger than Wes, with quicker and more incisive runs forward to lend support to the striker and also a good deal more 'substantial' - meaning less likely to get brushed off the ball as easily. Don't get me wrong, Wes has been awesome for us in seasons past, I just think Howson - or A.N. Other is the way forward, especially against high quality quick strong defenders, like Sylvain Distin.

 

[Pablofarmer]

i agree with dazz.

he's a bit of a confidence player, always has been. when things aren't quite clicking for him he goes into his shell and that was the case on saturday, so when he did get the ball he struggled to get his head up. when he's playing well, as he was first half of last season, he looks an outstanding player. but this has always been the case, ever since he signed. he's hit and miss but why write him off? he just had a very poor game. does that mean if he has a very good game next week we should build our side around him?

no. and i don't see the evidence for this supposed hoolahan 'love in' that keeps being mentioned. what exactly is this based on?

I think you just need to look at your reaction and others to posts the criticise him.
He is not the only one, and we are not the only club to have them. But there are some players who continue to be first picks and held in high esteem due to past performances. It feels like he is almost untouchable and heaven forbid we dare to state an opinion that suggests we are not seeing enough of the good games and to many of the poor ones.

Maybe Supers I have got the idea of forums wrong, and they are not about expressing a sensible opinion but instead being a place where only those 'in the know' and those with thousands of post are allowed to tell others what is right and wrong.
Forgive me, I will stay quiet from now on.

 

[Dazz19]

I think playing a single striker - as CH looks very likely to do, the danger is that they can get very isolated (just ask Grant Holt )

Howson is 6 years younger than Wes, with quicker and more incisive runs forward to lend support to the striker and also a good deal more 'substantial' - meaning less likely to get brushed off the ball as easily. Don't get me wrong, Wes has been awesome for us in seasons past, I just think Howson - or A.N. Other is the way forward, especially against high quality quick strong defenders, like Sylvain Distin.

Exactly this.

One of the big problems with playing Hoolahan off a lone striker, and it's been a problem right back to the odd occasion Lambert deployed the formation, is that Hoolahan doesn't make forward runs or anticipate flick ons. The amount of times a ball was played forward last season, Holt won it only to see it fall in space and the defenders having ages to clear because Hoolahan had hung back was ridiculous. There was a moment against Everton when RVW chased a ball down and managed to cut it back, but instead of anticipating the ball coming back Hoolahan waited until the ball had been played and it allowed Distin to get there first, had he gambled he may have reached the ball first.

When Howson came on he was pushing far higher up the pitch and making himself available for balls that Hoolahan normally wouldn't have done. He also played closer to RVW meaning Jagielka and Distin didn't have it quite so easy.

He's still a brilliant player and against the sides we'll be battling with (Hull, West Brom, Sunderland etc) he's a good asset, against the top six or seven though he seems to have been found out a bit.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

I think you just need to look at your reaction and others to posts the criticise him.
He is not the only one, and we are not the only club to have them. But there are some players who continue to be first picks and held in high esteem due to past performances. It feels like he is almost untouchable and heaven forbid we dare to state an opinion that suggests we are not seeing enough of the good games and to many of the poor ones.

Maybe Supers I have got the idea of forums wrong, and they are not about expressing a sensible opinion but instead being a place where only those 'in the know' and those with thousands of post are allowed to tell others what is right and wrong.
Forgive me, I will stay quiet from now on.

what a daft over reaction to me asking you a question.

read what i asked: "what exactly is this based on?"

the reason i ask is because i've not seen any evidence of a hoolahan love in. he's far from our best player, he drives me potty sometimes, but to write him off as you have done is grossly unfair and then to say that anyone who defends him is effectively in a 'clique' is very, very odd.

as for howson, agree with the comments. he is totally different to wes but he has far more drive and i actually think he's a more exciting player. he perhaps lacks the technique of hoolahan but he's quick and dynamic.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

as for howson, agree with the comments. he is totally different to wes but he has far more drive and i actually think he's a more exciting player. he perhaps lacks the technique of hoolahan but he's quick and dynamic.

Some players can adapt to different roles much more easily than others. Russell Martin, for example, has made a totally seamless transition from RB to CB. Whittaker can play anywhere along the back four and also wide midfield if needed, and Olsson is as comfortable on the left flank as he is in defence. Then there's Redmond, who can play on either wing or in the hole behind the striker

Howson is primarily an attacking central midfielder, a role he played for years at Leeds. Hughton got the worst out of him for many games last season by playing him much deeper in a holding role alongside Bradders - a role he struggled to adapt to. Hopefully a fit and firing Alex Tettey and our new "trump card" Leroy Fer should enable JH to operate in his preferred - and most dangerous position for large chunks of this season

 

[Pablofarmer]

what a daft over reaction to me asking you a question.

read what i asked: "what exactly is this based on?"

the reason i ask is because i've not seen any evidence of a hoolahan love in. he's far from our best player, he drives me potty sometimes, but to write him off as you have done is grossly unfair and then to say that anyone who defends him is effectively in a 'clique' is very, very odd.

as for howson, agree with the comments. he is totally different to wes but he has far more drive and i actually think he's a more exciting player. he perhaps lacks the technique of hoolahan but he's quick and dynamic.

But I did answer that question, in the reaction you get not just on here but when speaking to fans in general.
And yes, it was an over reaction but I did not really take kindly to basically being told my opinion didn't count.

Back to topic I agree with the Howson comments, I thought he looked good for most of the game and was only let down by not being decisive enough in some situations. I wonder how he and Fer will be played, from what I have seen Fer is a bigger unit which could be handy but does he make similar runs like Howson? Anyone know?