There must have been some ray of hope somewhere, in the same way that United felt they could get Cesc for as long as they did.
Wenger - No longer the right man?
- Thread starter TheBear
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There must have been some ray of hope somewhere, in the same way that United felt they could get Cesc for as long as they did.
The problem is Wenger has earned an admirable reputation of a savvy manager who can produce wonders for peanuts. 15 years of CL with a surplus on a transfer market is a truly wonderful achievement. From that point of view Wenger is unique. And I guess he wants to stay unique. His strategy is let's have a shot with what we have. If we win a trophy I will be a magician. If not, let's hope for another CL and I still will be unique. The alternative is to break the bank, buy stars and challenge for trophies seriously. But trophies are not guaranteed even if we spend 100 ml. So there is a big risk for Wenger to buy big and then fail to win a big trophy. And that would be the day when Wengers 'unique magic' will go forever, he will become just another manager who tried and failed - he will become another Benitez , and that is what he wants to avoid at all cost.
To look at it from a different perspective: Arsenal failures on a transfer market is a direct consequence of the wrong balance between a manager and a board. A manager should not care about the money, he should care about players and demand better players, he should apply pressure on the board to spend. The board's business is to find a compromise and spend wisely. With Arsenal's manager AND the board willing to spend wisely, there is no will to spend at all. There is no will to meet sellers evaluation of the player. We have seen it with Huguain,, now Gustavo. Had Wenger said to the board I need him and I do not care about his value, you have the money so go get him or else.. the situation would be completely different.
But instead everyone is happy at the AFC. The board are happy because the manager does not demand to spend on new players, and they do not need to pursue any risky strategies, the manager enjoys his 'unique' reputation, full control and huge salary, even players deep down are happy there is no real competition for a starting place. Everything is just fine. The only small problem is that Arsenal FC is loosing bit by bit his status of a top club.
To look at it from a different perspective: Arsenal failures on a transfer market is a direct consequence of the wrong balance between a manager and a board. A manager should not care about the money, he should care about players and demand better players, he should apply pressure on the board to spend. The board's business is to find a compromise and spend wisely. With Arsenal's manager AND the board willing to spend wisely, there is no will to spend at all. There is no will to meet sellers evaluation of the player. We have seen it with Huguain,, now Gustavo. Had Wenger said to the board I need him and I do not care about his value, you have the money so go get him or else.. the situation would be completely different.
But instead everyone is happy at the AFC. The board are happy because the manager does not demand to spend on new players, and they do not need to pursue any risky strategies, the manager enjoys his 'unique' reputation, full control and huge salary, even players deep down are happy there is no real competition for a starting place. Everything is just fine. The only small problem is that Arsenal FC is loosing bit by bit his status of a top club.
Or there maybe an alternative viewpoint. The expectations for this transfer window were set by the berk who announced to the world at the beginning of the window that we had a sh_itload of money available for transfers. Cue inflated prices and wage demands vs Wenger's natural desire to get the best value. If he sanctioned that announcement, then it is his own fault and he deserves all the criticism and more that he gets. If the board announced it over his head, you have to question the so-called business acumen of these guys.
I don't believe for one minute that Wenger is not trying to improve the squad. Trouble is, no of us really know what is going on and the speculation is polarising the feelings of supporters. Added to the reported activity from the Spuds, this is causing understandable frustration. It is interesting to note that, apart from the Spuds, there has been little 'marquee' activity in the Premier league market thus far. Manure have not done anything for example and the likes of PSG and Napoli are gazumping other deals, as we know. There is still over two weeks to go in this window. Like everyone, I hope the right deals are done. However, I am heartened by the run in from last season- the current squad, thin as it is, can only get better.
I don't agree, we need far more than Suarez this summer, I still wouldn't have considered the window to be a major success, even if Suarez came in, as others have said, we need 3-5 players.
Completely agree.
This Summer we've been told there's a serious warchest to invest, we have the money to do some exciting things and so many clubs without managers are delaying us progressing our targets, well the season kicks off in 44 hours and Madrid, Man City, Chelsea, Napoli, PSG etc have all had their managers in place for a month.
Suarez (or another top CF) would have signalled intent but we always needed bolstering in other areas too, one signing would not have been seen as a successful window.
There is still time and I still live in hope, but like everyone I'd have much prefered our targets to have been signed and joined us in time for pre-season, everyone else (Utd except, though they were 16 points better than us last year and needed less strengthening) seems to have managed it....
I said weeks ago when Suarez deal was more likely that this was already an incompetently managed transfer window by the club. Even the most severe of apologists here would have laughed at you if you'd have said we're a CF away from challenging for the title after that season where we barely managed to get fourth, thanks to the miraculous deeds of St. Koscielny in particular.
That whole hype-up by the club was completely irresponsible too, and has become a joke by now however it ends. (though the early theory that it was meant by the management to add pressure to Wenger to sign someone already, is looking more and more plausible now.)
If the squad depth /quality situation isn't addressed to prevent needless points beings dropped in the first couple of months of the season then the blame lies squarely on his shoulders.
He will be perfectly aware of that fact....which is why I think if a disaster occurred then he will resign.
He will be perfectly aware of that fact....which is why I think if a disaster occurred then he will resign.
We are an attacking side that lack a TOP class forward. (which is ridiculous).
We have just cleared out over 20 players from our books yet Wenger is struggling to find ANY replacements leaving not only our first team short of players we are lacking numbers in our reserves. This procrastination and lack of direction is starting to define the last few years under Arsene.
I was really hoping to see some change this Summer but things are looking more farcical than ever.
We have just cleared out over 20 players from our books yet Wenger is struggling to find ANY replacements leaving not only our first team short of players we are lacking numbers in our reserves. This procrastination and lack of direction is starting to define the last few years under Arsene.
I was really hoping to see some change this Summer but things are looking more farcical than ever.
Yes but you're a cranky old pessimist, so I'd expect you to say that.
I predicted that we'd finish 2nd last season.
(though I based that mostly comparing our squad to Man. Utd's which I still think isn't all that special, but I definitely underestimated Fergie and probably overrated Wenger)
So I would say my current pessimism isn't in the same ballpark as Kyle's.
I suppose we have to give him to the end of this window, and then see how the squad does in the first half of the season.
If he doesn't invest in good players, and we are well off the pace by Christmas, he should go. Maybe even mid-season, because it might at least give a new manager an opportunity to bring in players in January. Wenger sure as hell won't.
Perhaps Ramsey, Gibbs, Jenkinson, Ox, and Wilshere will all be much better this season. Perhaps Giroud will do what he normally does, and have a great second season. It's all maybes though. With the players that Spurs have brought in, Wenger is taking a massive risk with our club. I think pessimism is the norm right now, and it should be.
Luis Gustavo was the last ray of hope for me. A quality player who was exactly what we needed. He ended up going to a lesser club than us, so I'm guessing that was down to Wenger too.
Our squad is thinner than my buttcrack and a ****storm is evidently on its way.
If he doesn't invest in good players, and we are well off the pace by Christmas, he should go. Maybe even mid-season, because it might at least give a new manager an opportunity to bring in players in January. Wenger sure as hell won't.
Perhaps Ramsey, Gibbs, Jenkinson, Ox, and Wilshere will all be much better this season. Perhaps Giroud will do what he normally does, and have a great second season. It's all maybes though. With the players that Spurs have brought in, Wenger is taking a massive risk with our club. I think pessimism is the norm right now, and it should be.
Luis Gustavo was the last ray of hope for me. A quality player who was exactly what we needed. He ended up going to a lesser club than us, so I'm guessing that was down to Wenger too.
Our squad is thinner than my buttcrack and a ****storm is evidently on its way.
Didn't Gustavo get offered like 130k a week at Wolfsburg which was higher than what we would be willing to pay him and any other clubs interested? They want to make him there main man whereas at Arsenal he would be one of many midfielders. So i can see why he would potentially choose to go there. Doesn't neccesarily mean it was Wengers fault 
His latest comments sound like we are working on several deals though. He said he wants to bring in 2 or 3 or if possible even more signings. I just hope we manage to get a fewof these deals wrapped up come september!
IF we fail to sign anyone and then IF we are well off the pace come the halfway mark of the season i will be very concerned about the situation as i think we are in a position to finally challenge again if we invest in this squad. IF this is the case i wouldn't replace Wenger mid-season but i would make it clear that as a club we where looking at potential replacements. Changing managers mid-season could have a negative effect on the team and result in us even mising out on CL football.
BUT i don't think it will come to this as i think we will be pleasently suprised by a few quality signings before the window closes and i think we will enjoy a good season this time around.
His latest comments sound like we are working on several deals though. He said he wants to bring in 2 or 3 or if possible even more signings. I just hope we manage to get a fewof these deals wrapped up come september!
IF we fail to sign anyone and then IF we are well off the pace come the halfway mark of the season i will be very concerned about the situation as i think we are in a position to finally challenge again if we invest in this squad. IF this is the case i wouldn't replace Wenger mid-season but i would make it clear that as a club we where looking at potential replacements. Changing managers mid-season could have a negative effect on the team and result in us even mising out on CL football.
BUT i don't think it will come to this as i think we will be pleasently suprised by a few quality signings before the window closes and i think we will enjoy a good season this time around.
Didn't Gustavo get offered like 130k a week at Wolfsburg which was higher than what we would be willing to pay him and any other clubs interested? They want to make him there main man whereas at Arsenal he would be one of many midfielders. So i can see why he would potentially choose to go there. Doesn't neccesarily mean it was Wengers fault
His latest comments sound like we are working on several deals though. He said he wants to bring in 2 or 3 or if possible even more signings. I just hope we manage to get a fewof these deals wrapped up come september!
IF we fail to sign anyone and then IF we are well off the pace come the halfway mark of the season i will be very concerned about the situation as i think we are in a position to finally challenge again if we invest in this squad. IF this is the case i wouldn't replace Wenger mid-season but i would make it clear that as a club we where looking at potential replacements. Changing managers mid-season could have a negative effect on the team and result in us even mising out on CL football.
BUT i don't think it will come to this as i think we will be pleasently suprised by a few quality signings before the window closes and i think we will enjoy a good season this time around.
I think we will make 3-4 signings of people that none of our fans rate significantly, but a couple of them will be very good. We will be doing well at Christmas, but our fans will be saying that we will bottle it because we didn't sign experienced players.
Then, at the end of the season, we will win something, but the fans will still want Wenger gone, because they will say we could have won more, if he had only signed better players.
I haven't made any strawman argument. I simply made a prediction, I have not said anything you said is not true, or misrepresented any argument you have made.
Honestly, you lot have to stop responding in threads with personal attacks that have nothing to do with the subject under discussion.
It is how forums die off. I have no interest in belonging to a discussion group that simply trades insults.
What are you talking about? You practically never start or end a post without making it personal... what exactly is this "I doubt you have any interest in being fair, but ..."
or "but the fans will still want Wenger gone, because they will say we could have won more, if he had only signed better players."
I can't even give this post a reply it is so ridiculous. So making a prediction indicating that Wenger has lost the fan's support and will not get it back even if he wins something, in a thread entitled "Wenger - No longer the right man for the job," has now been called (incorrectly) "A strawman argument" and a personal insult to you.
Pardon me for posting on topic, when all you wanted to do was trade insults and feign offence.
gent your just a **** mate 
I had like one disagreement with you in one thread and now you seem to bring me up everytime you post - it's sad. No idea why you feel the need to randomly bitch about me, especially when it has no relevance to the thread.
As far as accusing me of strawman argumets - please feel free to point them out, all i've said is i think we will sign players.
Your completely negative (particularly your posts in the last week or so) without backing up anything you say, just random accusations at the club and whining because things aren't the way you want them (as if somehow what you know/think is more important than those who are paid to do it for a living). And so it's no suprise really that you end up with people calling you up on your negative approach to things.
Oh and thanks for the negative rep
I had like one disagreement with you in one thread and now you seem to bring me up everytime you post - it's sad. No idea why you feel the need to randomly bitch about me, especially when it has no relevance to the thread.
As far as accusing me of strawman argumets - please feel free to point them out, all i've said is i think we will sign players.
Your completely negative (particularly your posts in the last week or so) without backing up anything you say, just random accusations at the club and whining because things aren't the way you want them (as if somehow what you know/think is more important than those who are paid to do it for a living). And so it's no suprise really that you end up with people calling you up on your negative approach to things.
Oh and thanks for the negative rep
Deary me, the boards are pretty depressing at the moment. We should probably all just chillout - We may not be where we could (probably should) be but at least we always finish above the Spuds. (Despite the yearly biased media predictions)
We should be taking our frustration out on the board/manager or even trolling the Spuds not each other.
We should be taking our frustration out on the board/manager or even trolling the Spuds not each other.