Benny is an established player, not a young player trying to break in, we know what Benny can do. I couldn't think of a worse comparison, Walker would have been dropped had there been anything like a decent replacement, we've all said he's played because we had no choice.
I don't think either Rose or BAE are top quality LBs, and I have my doubts about Walker. For me, with the injuries to Daws, JV and Kab, we have not one top quality defender. Hence ATM am very negative about our chances re CL this season. To me, even with Soldado, etc we're in a worse place than we were at the end of last season. I just hope we get some defenders in ASAP, because at the moment the situation is an absolute shambles.
Hey Greavesie, not seen you on here before so welcome (if you are new that is) i agree with most of what you say. What frustrates me with both Benny and Walker is that they are class imo but the mistakes they make are not from a lack of talent, it's just common sense and bad decisions. Walker vs pool for instance, pinging it across your own box from the rb position.....really? do they teach that in training....like **** do they same as benny with his Parker esque 360 spins. oh well. they are the best we've had for a long long time (bar Charlie) and Walker is class getting forwards (doesnt link up with lennon at all well though)
HI SG, cheers for the welcome. Used to be on here before, but couldn't remember my name and password so started again That Pool game was absolutely gutting, we looked a CL team that day, and had we won we would have been I'm sure. Then THAT COLLAPSE!!!!! WTF were Walker and Defoe doing that day with those back passes? I do rate Walker in that I think he's currently our best fit defender, and those who think he's quality, fair enough. Personally, I think he has too many mistakes in him to be a quality defender just yet. The others that played v Monaco, to me none of them are quality.
HI SD, Thanks for the welcome. I honestly couldn't remember my previous name, but as you can see I'm not hiding who I was. People who remember the Lloris 'to do' will know who I am. I hope things work out better this time. People will know that I like to be friendly with other posters, but at the same my views can be challenging, but I always like to post in a good spirit and love to get on with other posters.
I take your point WY, and won't argue I've got friends who absolutely do their pieces about Walker and his 'defensive adventures'. I'm more tolerant than them, but really I can't bring myself to call him a quality RB yet. Joe Kinnear (despite the fact I don't like him since the Ginola episode v Wimbledon) he was a quality RB, ditto Perryman when he played there. Players you could rely on to defend. Yes what is required is different nowadays, but still to me I want my RB and LB to be good defenders first and foremost, maybe I'm out of touch and a daft old man, but that's the way I see it. It's why I love Daws so much, that's who I call a proper defender for all his technical shortcomings, lack of pace, etc.
I like Daws too but wish he would show a little more intelligence to his play sometimes - Reminds me of that John Smith's advert a few years ago, you can just imagine him saying to himself "Ave IT!!!!" everytime he hoofs the ball out of defence, to the exasperation of his more technically gifted team mates. I also think Walker's a perfectly decent right back - but largely because of his forays up the pitch, not despite them. I'd argue his attacking nature earns us more points than it costs us in the grand scheme of things, this was displayed a number of times last season indirectly. Still makes me laugh that you called him our "best fit defender", when the competition consists of Naughton, Fryers and Rose. "In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king."
WY Fair comments. Now you see I love it when Daws goes 'ave it' and launches the ball. I can't stand all this tikki tikki stuff from defenders when there's danger afoot. Again, I'm out of touch with the times on this I know, but to me Daws is my type of defender. I do have on my side though Alan Hansen, who is an authority on defending, and he tends to share my views on this. Walker's forays forward are excellent on the whole I agree, and so am happy to accept the view of those who see him as a 'quality defender' overall. But for me he still isn't, maybe I'll change my mind this season. But he is the least of our worries ATM, the other 3 parts of the 'back 4' are currently a shambles waiting to happen. Oh wait, it already has ... v Monaco. That I can live with. But if we fail to beat Palace due to defensive inadequacy, that will have me stamping my feet and ejecting objects of amusement from my wheeled carriage. I'm not up to speed on this forum yet, but on other forums I've read some posters talking of us being 'title challengers.' To me that is sooooo far from being realistic that I just can't see how people reach that conclusion. Currently we've gone backwards this summer, so ATM we're not even serious CL contenders, IMHO.
I think on paper, without current injuries, and with Bale, we should be able to flirt with the 'title challenger' tag. That's a lot of ifs though. When all are fit I consider Walker to be the weakest of our starting back 4, behind Benny who is a better crosser of the ball and whose eccentricities get him out of danger quite effectively.
Hi WY, as you say, a lot of 'ifs'. Even without our injuries and Bale committed, I still wouldn't see us as title challengers. We haven't been title challengers for 30 years or so now, so I just don't think we have the mindset to be so. Of course, IF we actually are up there come April, then fine, I'll change my tune. But I don't see us being there then. And with our current problems, I don't see us troubling the top 4 either. Re BAE, I'm not a fan. I think he's been over-rated by most Spurs fans for years. Hansen doesn't rate him as a top quality LB, nor do I. I see him as an okay Prem LB, nowhere near one of the top two or three that many Spurs fans have seen him as. For once, I actually agree with AVB on defensive matters, as it seems he doesn't think BAE is of the required standard either. Trouble is, neither is Rose, IMHO. For me, last season, after the striker issue our weakest spot was LB. Now with Soldado, probably our weakest spots are CB and LB, but we'll see as the season progresses.
I've seen you say before that you thought Bale was dodgy for a long time at the start of his Spurs career but I really can't agree. His initial games showed clearly how dangerous he was. He scored against Utd, Arsenal etc before he got injured and I remember getting very excited about him - I'm sure others were too. As an 18/19 (?) year old he clearly looked like he had something about him in a way that Rose has, so far, not (in a Spurs shirt, at least). I really do believe that most of the really decent players who I've seen as youngsters were clearly good right from the off. If anything, for me, they tend to look better than they actually turn out to be when they're young - keen to impress, bags of energy, unafraid. Trying to think of current/recent players and how they seemed to start with: King, Dawson, Walker all looked good from the off. Lennon looked great right from the off, Livermore so-so, Kane so-so, Carroll looked exciting from his first few games. Mind you so did Rohan Ricketts, Adel Taraabt and I distinctly remember thinking during the course of one pre-season game, that Dos Santos, not Modric, was the signing of the summer. By the way I'm not claiming any special insight. I bet most fans would've agreed with me at the time that Lennon, say, looked a bit special and that no matter how much time we gave him Jonnie Jackson, say, was never gonna cut it at this level. I think that's it's pretty clear a lot of the time. Perhaps Rose'll prove me wrong - I can't think of a single player right now who looked quite average to start with when they were young but grew into a really good Spurs player*. Maybe Rory Allen is still hanging around somewhere being promising with his U-21 cap or two... *Maybe Crouch could have been a contender for this title, if I'd ever seen him as a young player. Or he'd grown into a really good Spurs player. Only kidding! Always had time for Crouch. Kaboul also looked a bit dodgy when he was young but it looked more like his decision-making more than anything - his heading and tackling and comfort on the ball going forwards was clear from his first few games.
Sorry, he did start dodgy,at one point we were going to sell him,to Sheffield United or Nottingham forest,it' wasn't until he was moved into midfield that there was an inprovement,it was well documented at the time
Bale scored three in four starts at the start of his Spurs career. As a left back. And I misremembered - he did not score against Utd - but he had a good game and set one up or something. And when he was 18. Then around October he got an injury and was out for the rest of the season. This was 2007-2008. He was linked with a move to Birmingham October 2009 - two years after his impressive first few performances. I think he'd had another long-term injury during that time. Plus spurs had gone to **** and Harry had come in so those early performances were, due to two years having passed and two managers been and gone, forgotten. Plus there was all that bullshit about how we'd not won a game that he'd started. But that was just a statistical anomaly and a fun thing for the papers to go on about. I distinctly remember saying here (or the old 606) that, whilst I was a big fan of Harry's, his inability to spot the talent that Bale had shown all Spurs fans a couple of years ago was weird. Harry didn't like to change a winning formula either. So when there was interest for this twenty year-old or whatever, who had had at least a couple of long-term injuries and who Harry had hardly ever player cos BAE was proving himself able it's little wonder the bid was considered. There were loads of factors which had nothing to do with how well Bale had actually played. But I'd be amazed if most Spurs fans did not think Bale looked very good indeed as an eighteen year-old stepping straight into the Premiership. Just like Dawson when he was young and Lennon too he simply looked the part.
I don't know where this stuff about Bale going to Birmingham or Forest comes from, as Redknapp clearly stated his plans for Bale at the time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/t/tottenham_hotspur/8427212.stm Spurcat made this comment in the connecting 606 thread:
Bale may or may not have had a dodgy start at Spurs, I'll leave that argument to others. But he definitely didn't have a dodgy start as a pro footballer. His performances as a very young player were enough to make a genuine impact at Soton and Wales, and have a club like us stumping up a stack of cash for him, and indeed having the biggest club in the country Man U actively looking at him. Indeed I believe that Fergie 'regrets' a la Gazza over GB.
Bale never started dodgy, he was superb against man utd, starred In that high scoring draw again Fulham away, scored a free kick against arsenal and overall had an exciting start to his career with us but then the injury came. Even in that 24 match run ( which was a ridiculous stat as he wasn't responsible for them games not being won) just take the Fulham any game as an example, he was our best attacker on the pitch In terms of driving the team forward. I never understood why anyone doubted bale, as he was always nailed on to become a star. Rose I put with o'hara, looks great on loan, but no future in our 1st team and as they get older, they will gradually become more average.
It's usually mentioned by rival fans who want to suggest arry never rated bale and was going to sell him on the cheap, as you're not allowed to praise redknapp, only find ways to attack the guy!
