Summer Transfers Mega-Thread

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Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
vaughan will leave unless he has had a dramatic change of heart. and it's not as if we need to spend all our budget on another centre forward! £5m would, i imagine, secure hooper this summer. if we are talking about a budget of somewhere around the £20m mark then we have £15m to spend on other areas. even this year we had four strikers and because the quality wasn't always there we had to persist with holt even when his form dipped. RvW is an accomplished player but he will also hit troughs and holt is not the same player he was and his future is not clear cut by any means although i'd prefer to keep him. if hughton can get another striker he will, no question about it. he tried to buy BOTH RvW and hooper in january remember!
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I don't know why you're so certain Vaughan will leave. I've only heard rumours that he's not happy and I'm convinced that a word or two from the manager plus some proper first team game time and most players forget that they're homesick. If you know something more than that, fair enough <ok>

If Vaughan leaves (including on loan), then I agree that we'll definitely sign a striker. My post was based more on the idea that Hughton may look at Vaughan and think that if he wasn't already signed for us, his sort of return in the Championship would be exactly the sort of striker we would be looking at.

I disagree about Holt. With us playing more aggressively, with more support from the midfield, Holt scored three goals in three matches. I think he's no worse a player than he was last year. I think his future is pretty well assured (though I accept we might use him as a makeweight to sign another striker).

As for your calculations re. our budget - you are essentially saying we should spend 25% of it on a striker, when we have already signed two since January. How much more useful would that £5m be used on the midfield? I'd say it would be much more worthwhile than signing yet another striker. On which note, yes, Hughton did try to sign two strikers in January and, indeed, he has signed two since - Becchio and RvW.

I really don't want people to get their hopes up here. I really feel that the only way we will be signing another striker is if Holt, Vaughan or even Becchio leaves.
 
Canary Rob said:
I don't know why you're so certain Vaughan will leave. I've only heard rumours that he's not happy and I'm convinced that a word or two from the manager plus some proper first team game time and most players forget that they're homesick. If you know something more than that, fair enough <ok>
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Vaughan was getting plently of game time though in pre-season. That would suggest that Hughton was planning to utilise him this season but Vaughan wanted out.
 
I can see the argument for another DM, Supers (and DH), but not at the expense of the ACM player. It's possible that there is another Yaya Toure out there, but the DM would need to bring attacking qualities as well and players like that are hard to find. Biglia and Defour have the holding abilities, but neither scores many goals. As good as Howson has looked lately, I still think we need another who can add to the attacking threat and provide competition at that position. If it were Van Ginkel or another player under 21, then there would be another squad place available or it may be that the DM player takes precedence over another left sided player, but we can't have everything in the real world.
 
Canary Rob said:
I don't know why you're so certain Vaughan will leave. I've only heard rumours that he's not happy and I'm convinced that a word or two from the manager plus some proper first team game time and most players forget that they're homesick. If you know something more than that, fair enough <ok>

If Vaughan leaves (including on loan), then I agree that we'll definitely sign a striker. My post was based more on the idea that Hughton may look at Vaughan and think that if he wasn't already signed for us, his sort of return in the Championship would be exactly the sort of striker we would be looking at.

I disagree about Holt. With us playing more aggressively, with more support from the midfield, Holt scored three goals in three matches. I think he's no worse a player than he was last year. I think his future is pretty well assured (though I accept we might use him as a makeweight to sign another striker).

As for your calculations re. our budget - you are essentially saying we should spend 25% of it on a striker, when we have already signed two since January. How much more useful would that £5m be used on the midfield? I'd say it would be much more worthwhile than signing yet another striker. On which note, yes, Hughton did try to sign two strikers in January and, indeed, he has signed two since - Becchio and RvW.

I really don't want people to get their hopes up here. I really feel that the only way we will be signing another striker is if Holt, Vaughan or even Becchio leaves.
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it is quite well known that vaughan never settled in the area. that may be because he was injured so much when he initially signed and never moved here or because he wasn't content with the number of Nando's in the area, i don't know, but it's not something made up - hughton offered him the option of a loan move back up north and he agreed. where that leaves him now i don't know either but hughton cannot offer him regular first team football because he will naturally fall behind both RvW and holt so its a fairly obvious assumption that he will move on as his deal runs out next summer and on the back of a pretty decent season we can recoup most of, if not all his original transfer fee.

as for holt, i think he had an ok season all in all. up until christmas, despite the lack of goals, i felt he was having a good season but in correlation to the teams dip in form he did likewise. the last two or three games shouldn't dress up the fact that he has been off the pace for half a season. he still has a part to play at the club (i hope) but he won't be the 'main man' anymore and that might not be his cup of team - he's grown quite used to the role and it is not a definite he will be playing as much next year. he's also 32 - hardly ancient, especially for a striker who doesn't rely on pace - but a long-term replacement needs to be found and hooper ticks all the boxes.

budget wise, my guess of £20m is pure speculation - nobody knows what we have to spend, but i think that's probably the minimum we'll have available so a good starting point. £5m for an english striker who if successful could stick around for a while or be sold for three or four times that amount is sensible. i'm not sure how much you think we should be spending on midfield but if we say brought in a DM and AM for a combined £10m, along with say hooper, that still gives us at least £5m for other slots not including any money from vaughan or anyone else sold. becchio in many ways is a stop-gap signing. we couldn't get the two strikers we wanted so he came in. there's no way in a million years we'd have signed him had we been able to sign one or both of the others first. becchio could be a useful squad player - he's not my favourite player but not bad to throw on last five, ten minutes to hold the ball up. its all about options.
 
danary said:
Vaughan was getting plently of game time though in pre-season. That would suggest that Hughton was planning to utilise him this season but Vaughan wanted out.
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True, that's one interpretation, but it is still speculation. Equally, going out on loan is no longer the end of a player's career at a club - especially clubs in the Premier League (it's what they do to give their fringe players some game time). Another interpretation may be that Hughton simply wanted to see what level Vaughan was at and whether he needed to go out on loan to improve.

Unless someone knows something concrete about how Vaughan feels, I think it's safe to say that his performance in the Championship last season suggests he is the sort of striker we should want to keep. On which basis, I think there is a good chance we might.
 
just to add to all that warble, i said earlier in this thread that we probably won't be able to 'solve' all our positions during this window so there may be one or two 'compromise' signings in certain positions. people should expect to see hughton's masterplan reach completion in august - it might take a couple of years to get the right players in the right positions, so the 'quality' DM we want might not be coming during this window - we might have to settle for a 'mccann' or whoever, just to freshen the squad up.
 
Canary Rob said:
True, that's one interpretation, but it is still speculation. Equally, going out on loan is no longer the end of a player's career at a club - especially clubs in the Premier League (it's what they do to give their fringe players some game time). Another interpretation may be that Hughton simply wanted to see what level Vaughan was at and whether he needed to go out on loan to improve.

Unless someone knows something concrete about how Vaughan feels, I think it's safe to say that his performance in the Championship last season suggests he is the sort of striker we should want to keep. On which basis, I think there is a good chance we might.
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well i can tell you that he lives stafford and has never settled here. i'm 99.999% sure he'll leave for a fee close to £1m this summer
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
rob,

it is quite well known that vaughan never settled in the area. that may be because he was injured so much when he initially signed and never moved here or because he wasn't content with the number of Nando's in the area, i don't know, but it's not something made up - hughton offered him the option of a loan move back up north and he agreed. where that leaves him now i don't know either but hughton cannot offer him regular first team football because he will naturally fall behind both RvW and holt so its a fairly obvious assumption that he will move on as his deal runs out next summer and on the back of a pretty decent season we can recoup most of, if not all his original transfer fee.

as for holt, i think he had an ok season all in all. up until christmas, despite the lack of goals, i felt he was having a good season but in correlation to the teams dip in form he did likewise. the last two or three games shouldn't dress up the fact that he has been off the pace for half a season. he still has a part to play at the club (i hope) but he won't be the 'main man' anymore and that might not be his cup of team - he's grown quite used to the role and it is not a definite he will be playing as much next year. he's also 32 - hardly ancient, especially for a striker who doesn't rely on pace - but a long-term replacement needs to be found and hooper ticks all the boxes.

budget wise, my guess of £20m is pure speculation - nobody knows what we have to spend, but i think that's probably the minimum we'll have available so a good starting point. £5m for an english striker who if successful could stick around for a while or be sold for three or four times that amount is sensible. i'm not sure how much you think we should be spending on midfield but if we say brought in a DM and AM for a combined £10m, along with say hooper, that still gives us at least £5m for other slots not including any money from vaughan or anyone else sold. becchio in many ways is a stop-gap signing. we couldn't get the two strikers we wanted so he came in. there's no way in a million years we'd have signed him had we been able to sign one or both of the others first. becchio could be a useful squad player - he's not my favourite player but not bad to throw on last five, ten minutes to hold the ball up. its all about options.
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Fair enough, but "quite well known" doesn't really mean anything to me, other than that was the likely basis at the time. As you say, it tells us nothing about the present. Who's to know whether he will or won't be offered regular first team football? His form in the Championship was good in a struggling side. He certainly has class and if he can stay injury free I think he is more naturally talented than either Holt or Becchio. If it's true that Holt's "powers" are fading, then maybe Vaughan, even now only just coming into his prime, may be perfect to play next to RvW.

I don't think it is an obvious assumption at all that we will sell him - so far we have sold very few players. We won't get much for him at all, because it would be obvoius we are getting rid. It makes much more sense to give Vaughan one last shot in the Prem this season for us and then if he is doing well we can extend the contract or release him on a free next summer, like we have done with many players. I don't think we will get much better than Vaughan for £5m.

In essence, I'm not disputing that there is good evidence that we may well sell Vaughan, I'm just saying that there is good reason to keep him and this may mean people feel a bit disappointed if we don't sign a striker, but actually I think there is financial and footballing sense to not selling him, if he can be persuaded to stay (as a bit part player or otherwise).

Also, I wasn't disputing the budget you were giving, I was just meaning that whatever figure you spend on a new striker, simply to improve on what we've got, will be a significant chunk of our budget which I think could be better spent elsewhere. To take your example - if we spend £10m on an AM and a DM, that's approximately £5m on each. Johnson has been linked with a move to Swansea for an alleged £4.2m. I appreciate that these figures are very much stabs in the dark, but I'd say that doesn't represent much of an improvement on Johnson. I'd rather we spent £15m on an AM and a DM, representing a significant improvement, and not sign a striker.
 
a few different people from within the club (including two players) have said vaughan spent all his time 'oop norf'.

i don't think anyone would be surprised to see him leave. and trust me, i'm a big vaughan fan! i was wary of his injury record but on natural talent alone i thought at £1m he was a steal. sadly, sometimes these things don't work out. had he not got injured in the west brom game early last season and stayed fit and played well then he may very well have been successful here. he missed 15 games through injury last season - injuries still blight his career - and he is meant to be one of our highest paid players too... sorry, but the more you assess the situation, the more it makes sense that he'll be sold.

i also cannot see us spending £15m on just two midfielders - we may be on a sound financial footing these days but we are not going to blow the vast majority of our budget on two footballers who may or may not work out. we will still be bargain hunting in this window - we are shopping at morrisons instead of aldi these days - we still aren't even in waitrose carpark yet!
 
Not sure what to make of the Arter rumours really. I've never seen him play, and whilst he's young, it's a big step up from League 1 to the Prem. I don't think he'd be first or even second choice, so we'd probably end up loaning him out.
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
a few different people from within the club (including two players) have said vaughan spent all his time 'oop norf'.

i don't think anyone would be surprised to see him leave. and trust me, i'm a big vaughan fan! i was wary of his injury record but on natural talent alone i thought at £1m he was a steal. sadly, sometimes these things don't work out. had he not got injured in the west brom game early last season and stayed fit and played well then he may very well have been successful here. he missed 15 games through injury last season - injuries still blight his career - and he is meant to be one of our highest paid players too... sorry, but the more you assess the situation, the more it makes sense that he'll be sold.

i also cannot see us spending £15m on just two midfielders - we may be on a sound financial footing these days but we are not going to blow the vast majority of our budget on two footballers who may or may not work out. we will still be bargain hunting in this window - we are shopping at morrisons instead of aldi these days - we still aren't even in waitrose carpark yet!
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Trust me, I'm not saying I'll be surprised to see him leave, I won't! I just think there is good reason to think he may well stay and nothing I have seen has suggested he will definitely leave - if you know something more then fair enough, I'm not "ITN"!

I disagree about your interpretation of our spending, though. We are now into our third year in the premier league, we have more money than ever and we need to make the step up. All our players are in and around the £4-5m mark, I'd say (in the positions we feel need replacing...) To make that step up we need to look at £6-9m, if we are in the habit of plucking out random figures. I agree that we should be mindful (I'm glad we would never think of splashing out £15m on Carroll!) of how we spend, but ultimately we need to take risks and any signing, whether £1m or £20m is a risk. We have made a statement with the signing of RvW. As long as wages are reasonable (which, let's face it, is the thing that really risks a club's future), I see know harm in being ambitious in how much we spend on a transfer fee.
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
what i'd like to know, assuming we sign another centre half, has anyone got any sensible suggestions for that position excluding curtis davies?

i haven't! <laugh>
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It's funny you bring this up - this is another one where I wonder if we haven't already got the best value player already with us! Ayala...

Difficult to say, but this is another position where I wonder if, injuries permitting, we may try to hold out until January.
 
another thing about how much we might spend, we may well pick up an experienced player for free. fulham have just done that with two players, one from athletic bilbao and one from a ukranian i believe. ok they might be a more experienced player on higher wages, but it's an option as you save on the transfer fee

on the centre back issue, what about one of the Wigan CBs? Alcaraz
 
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