According to shot-to-save percentages, Adam Federici is better than Hugo Lloris (who would be the 18th best keeper in the league).
Gazza
- Thread starter lamby
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Comparing players of different teams and not mentioning goals conceded is completely different. Compare Lloris and Friedel...
That just shows what these stats show: nothing, nought, zilch, zero. I hope that clears that up. 
The vast majority of Boruc's games have been under Pochettino where we play a significantly different defensive style, so surely a direct comparison there is flawed too?
Unadorned statistics mean nothing. Perhaps when Gazza was in goal other teams thought we had a dodgy keeper and so there were more speculative efforts from long distance?
The difference in points per game isn't that big and Gazza played against 3 of the current bottom 5 and an abject Villa side. None of his games were against the top 5.
The difference in points per game isn't that big and Gazza played against 3 of the current bottom 5 and an abject Villa side. None of his games were against the top 5.
I know football is a game of wildly varying opinions but I am astonished that any vague suggestion of Gazzaniga being a better choice or 'safer' than Boruc is being made, and I don't say that to demean anyone who feels that way, it's just the the thought genuinely never crossed my mind and it seems incredible to me. To me since Boruc came into the side in January he has been fantastic, made some stunning saves and has been a dominant presence in the box. I can remember Gazza making a few good or very good saves, but nothing that made me exclaim with astonishment like some of Boruc's. I think Gazza has the tools to be a good goalkeeper going forward and would really like to see him have a couple of years loaned out to garner experience, but at the moment Boruc is one of the most secure names on my team-sheet. Goalkeeper stats are very situational, for example most if not all goalkeepers would say the only stat that matters to them is clean sheets, Joe Hart has the most clean sheets in the league this year, has he been the best keeper in the league? Not even close. For me the only thing that really matters is; Gazza cost us points, Boruc has gained us points.
We're actually letting in less goals per game under Pochettino so not sure what you're getting at exactly there. Under Pochettino we've conceded 1.33 per game, under Adkins it was 1.82 per game. Boruc conceded 1.8 per game under Adkins and 1.33 under Pochettino. Gazzaniga was letting in 1.33 per game under Adkins. Davis was letting 2.38 per game under Adkins.
Explanation: Davis played mainly against stronger, free-scoring teams, Gazza against weaker teams and Boruc a mix of the two.
Stop making it more convoluted with endless stats. It's not Moneyball, they're all situational. Davis' stat of 2.38 is irrelevant because of conceding 6 against Arsenal which is a clear anomaly. You can't put goals a game down to the keeper because they're not the only one responsible.
You said you can't directly compare shot/save percentages with two different teams - okay, fine, but then you could essentially treat Poche/Boruc as a different team to Nige/Gazza. For example, Nigel's teams always had a problem with giving away far too much space outside the box - combine that with an inexperienced keeper with dodgy hands, teams may have been having more speculative efforts (given the time on the ball and the motivation). Now, under Mauricio, a pressing style gives them less time to line up long shots, and forces them to work the ball into the box, giving them fewer (but better) chances, so a better chance conversion rate. May not strictly be true, but it shows how situational it is if you leave it to just numbers.
Again you are another showing a misunderstanding of the stats I posted. There's not really any point comparing keepers of different sides statistically.
And you are showing a misunderstanding of my point - there's not really any point comparing keepers statistically at all. The statistics aren't comprehensive enough to have any objective meaning, particularly with the small sample size in question here.
I'm not sure. I can recall him saving a few close range shots either one on ones on the angle or close range headers. You might be right but it would be difficult to check. Even if we ignore the saving percentage completely then we were still actually letting in less goals with Gazzaniga on average at a time when our defence wasn't as organised, we were getting less possession and we weren't really getting on the front foot in games.
Lloris has let in less per game than Friedel. Ruddy has let in less per game than Bunn. Szczesny has let in less per game than Mannone. Reina has let in less per game than Jones. De Gea has let in less per game than Lindegaard. Krul has let in less per game than Elliot. Foster has let in less per game than Myhill. There is a trend that the keeper with fewer goals against is the better keeper so there does seem to be a point. That's the reason I bothered to compare ours in the first place.
I think Al-Habsi is a woeful keeper and the stats suggest that. Robles has done a much better job and replaced him as number 1 it seems. The only other teams with keepers to compare are QPR and Swansea (and Southampton). QPR's keepers are about tied, Green 0.01 per game against less, and I'm not surprised at all. Green is a top keeper. As for Swansea, Tremmel came into the side and had a much higher saving percentage than Vorm. He was incredible when I saw him a few times. In some games Tremmel seemed unbeatable so I'm not surprised he was comfortably conceding less goals than Vorm on average.
Have a feeling he won't make the grade at Saints...will be a good League 1 keeper or decent Championship keeper I'm guessing. How much did we pay for him by the way
But again you're ignoring the quality of the opposition when you compare Davis, Gazza and Boruc purely in terms of average number of goals conceded.
Davis and Gazza have only played a few games so we have a small sample size where one result can skew the average. None of Gazza's games were against the top 5, who are more likely to score a lot of goals, while 3 of Davis's were. About half of Gazza's games were against weaker teams (3 of the current bottom 5 and Villa, who were awful at the time). You can also make a strong argument that Gazza's errors cost us points in 2 of his 9 games (against Swansea and Norwich).
I have absolutely no idea what you're basing this absurdly dogmatic statement on. There's simply no evidence to support this, and so much to oppose it.
I do not recall anyone saying Gazza is better than Boruc. Boruc is an excellent keeper and we were lucky to sign him, however he is at the mo in the bottom half of keepers in the PL and is prone to having one gaff a game. Gazza has all the qualities of turning into a quality keeper but does need time on loan
All those second keepers I mentioned have played roughly 8-9 games just like Gazzaniga. Boruc let in 4 against West Ham, 4 against Newcastle and 3 against West Brom. We've performed well against the bigger sides recently. Gazzaniga played away at Everton, Liverpool and West Brom. Those aren't easy games.
You rewatch the Swansea goal and the entire match. Gazzaniga floated the ball to Yoshida and Yoshida completely misjudged it. It was a great finish by Dyer. We were all over Swansea that game anyway and to not score more than 1 goal was criminal so the attackers need to take blame for not scoring another goal. It can't always only be defensive players taking responsibility.
The Norwich goal Clyne made a bad tackle to give away the free kick after Shaw got beaten inside. If Clyne stayed on his feet Snodgrass would have given it away to Ramirez. The wall was wrong and Puncheon tried to block the free kick right in front of Gazzaniga on the 6 yard line making him hesitate. But I think he should have saved it. He's partly responsible for both goals but a lot of players are for either the goals conceded or the results.
Yes not even I have said that. I'm just stating facts and am a bit perplexed by them lol. I said on the first page the stats confused me and I've felt safer with Boruc.
That statement I've bolded is exactly why comparing save percentage stats or goals conceded per game stats proves nothing.
Who decides what a save is anyway? When Boruc charges out in a one-on-one situation and tackles the striker before he can get a shot away (as he did twice against Villa) does that count as a save? I suspect it doesn't.