Luiz + Mourinho. Discuss

[BelugaWhale]

Bar any major disaster we look set to 'eclipse' last years meagre return of 64 points, ending up around our score of 71 points obtained a couple of seasons ago. Difference now is that we're definitely a team on the ascendancy with a re-juvenated squad, rather than a team in decline.

Despite all our supposed woes this season, there has a tangible feeling of progression and improvement throughout the season. Hazard is better, Luiz is better, Bertrand is better, even Torres is better, defending better (marginally), outweighing the worsening of Brana, worsening of JT (expected), and a slight worsening of our attacking verve. On the whole, our transition is going quite well, and Luiz is definitely a very central part of that, being touted as potential future captain etc.

But with Jose looming large, there a problems posed here as Luiz is far too maverick a defender to suit Mourinho. So it will either be that

i) he will be sold, which will be a great shame
ii) he will be be usefully employed in a holding midfield role.
iii) he is forced to curtail his instincts, which would make him half the player he is, leading to (i) (being sold)

I for one would like to see him continue in defense and evolve into a Beckenbauer type player. There is a reason why successive managers have deployed him in defence and not midfield, something that us so-called football 'experts' can't see. Perhaps it is a fitness thing, or perhaps it is an agility thing, or a positional thing. Don't know, but I strongly suspect there is a significant weakness there which makes him a better defender than a holding midfielder.

Whatever, we're definitely evolving a new style which basically incorporates three musketeers and Luiz being adventurous, and I'm not sure whether by reverting back to Jose, we will be throwing two years of transition away...

As we continue to improve, Jose seems to be more and more a nostalgic unwise signing, than one predicated on sound strategic planning and philosophy.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

Disagree on Luiz actually. Think he is the closest thing we've had to Carvalho since...Calvalho!! Not quite as good as defender yet but certainly very good on the ball and poses an attacking threat; even has a similar hair cut!!

I think if Jose comes in we will see a Luiz plus Cahill or Terry alongside. That would be similar to the partnership we had when he was here last time. A no nonsence defender alongside a more 'talented' one.

As for Jose, he will set his team up to get the best out of the top players. Simple as that really. He did it with Deco as Porto, Lampard/Drogba with us, Sniejder at Inter and Ronaldo at Madrid. That means I see a continuation of building this side around the likes of Mata and Hazard.

This side needs evolution rather than revolution, a sensible signing here or there and promotion of some youth and we'll be in a good position next year as long as the team and club are all pulling in the right direction. In a way, a season of failure (i.e no trophies) could lead to the same focus that has clearly helped United this season.

 

[BelugaWhale]

Disagree on Luiz actually. Think he is the closest thing we've had to Carvalho since...Calvalho!! Not quite as good as defender yet but certainly very good on the ball and poses an attacking threat; even has a similar hair cut!!

I think if Jose comes in we will see a Luiz plus Cahill or Terry alongside. That would be similar to the partnership we had when he was here last time. A no nonsence defender alongside a more 'talented' one.

As for Jose, he will set his team up to get the best out of the top players. Simple as that really. He did it with Deco as Porto, Lampard/Drogba with us, Sniejder at Inter and Ronaldo at Madrid. That means I see a continuation of building this side around the likes of Mata and Hazard.

This side needs evolution rather than revolution, a sensible signing here or there and promotion of some youth and we'll be in a good position next year as long as the team and club are all pulling in the right direction. In a way, a season of failure (i.e no trophies) could lead to the same focus that has clearly helped United this season.

Not entirely sure what exactly you're disagreeing on, as we're both in agreement that Luiz makes for a better defender than a holding midfielder?

But I disagree (strongly) that Hazard is going to be in the core of a Mourinho team, which will be built around Mata and Luiz (re-disciplined). Jose likes leaders and the only young player with that kind of quality we have at the moment is Luiz, who will be a future captain as things stand. (Maybe Oscar, but too early to tell)

I feel Hazard may be treated with kid gloves like Joe Cole was. Jose will make him come good, but Hazard has a lot to learn about the 'bigger picture' or the 'game in context' or simply put 'when not to go on mazy runs and when not to give the ball away', which Jose will try to teach him.

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

Not entirely sure what exactly you're disagreeing on, as we're both in agreement that Luiz makes for a better defender than a holding midfielder?

But I disagree (strongly) that Hazard is going to be in the core of a Mourinho team, which will be built around Mata and Luiz (re-disciplined). Jose likes leaders and the only young player with that kind of quality we have at the moment is Luiz, who will be a future captain as things stand. (Maybe Oscar, but too early to tell)

I feel Hazard may be treated with kid gloves like Joe Cole was. Jose will make him come good, but Hazard has a lot to learn about the 'bigger picture' or the 'game in context' or simply put 'when not to go on mazy runs and when not to give the ball away', which Jose will try to teach him.

I was diagreeing on the point that Luiz may not last as a defender under Jose.

As for Hazard, i understand your point but he's given players like Robben and Ronaldo star roles in teams amd I wouldn't say they add much to the defensive side etc. Hazard in fact is a much more rounded team player than Robben ever was and a far superior player to J Cole already. Cole just wasn't good enough to be a 'luxury' player; Robben, Hazard, Ronaldo etc are.

 

[District Line]

I don't get this myth that if Jose comes certain players have no future. If Mourinho came in Cahill and probably JT are in far more danger of leaving than Luiz.

 

[BelugaWhale]

I was diagreeing on the point that Luiz may not last as a defender under Jose.

I don't get this myth that if Jose comes certain players have no future. If Mourinho came in Cahill and probably JT are in far more danger of leaving than Luiz.

He won't last under Jose if he continues to bring the ball upfield only to lose it again, leaving his defence exposed. As good as his forward play was against Fulham, I counted at least two times he lost the ball when roving forwards, leading immediately to a counterattack. Jose hates that kind of indiscipline, no matter how well you have played otherwise, as Joe Cole will attest to.

Of all managers, we should know more than most that jose is primarily a defensive minded coach with strict rules. A leopard never changes its spots! It was he that restricted the forward runs of ashley cole and while he may have relaxed that for Marcello, there is no evidence that he has done so for his central defenders. If Luiz is to succeed as a cb in a mourinho team, he will have to restrain his natural instinct to go forwards. Or go forwards with at least more due diligence. No two ways about it.

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

IF Jose comes, and that's a big if, I hope he gets Sjneider to come with him.

 

[Varier2]

If Jose comes, as with any manager, Luiz will be integral. Luiz and Mata form the core of our team now definitely - just need to discover the right central midfielder (with technical improvements, I think Ramires could fill that role).
I really can't see Jose coming in and feeling the need to tear out some players to put his mark on the team. Chelsea are a team that needs additions not removals.

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

If Jose comes, as with any manager, Luiz will be integral. Luiz and Mata form the core of our team now definitely - just need to discover the right central midfielder (with technical improvements, I think Ramires could fill that role).
I really can't see Jose coming in and feeling the need to tear out some players to put his mark on the team. Chelsea are a team that needs additions not removals.

Yep, we're close now and need to solidify, not chop and change. Jose can transform players, he did it with Joe Cole, and he has loads of talent to work with. I think he will love to get Luiz flying, he's just the business, young with loads of talent and enthusiasm. He could be anything with Jose guiding and teaching.

 

[BelugaWhale]

If Jose comes, as with any manager, Luiz will be integral. Luiz and Mata form the core of our team now definitely - just need to discover the right central midfielder (with technical improvements, I think Ramires could fill that role).
I really can't see Jose coming in and feeling the need to tear out some players to put his mark on the team. Chelsea are a team that needs additions not removals.

Rami lacks in the passing department, and he's not young so unlikely to improve in this area. We meet might need to bring someone in the form the link in the chain, or fast track one of the kids.

 

[Drogs]

Rami lacks in the passing department, and he's not young so unlikely to improve in this area. We meet might need to bring someone in the form the link in the chain, or fast track one of the kids.

agree, like said before Rami is a 4-3-3 player and needs protection behind him and to be alongside somebody who can pass!

 

[angelordevil]

I'm trying really hard not to get sucked into this is he isn't he thing as it will be like a brick falling from a great height if it doesn't happen. Like when we are winning a game by a few goals think we have got it made, all excited, and then fall flat on our faces in the last few minutes. But Luiz and Mata and Hazard will be here for a while yet whoever takes over. Oscar is taking longer to shine, but positioning is crucial with our team to work right and imo Benitez often plays player's in the wrong positions and wrong parings. It will be very interesting to see what our team looks like next year under somebody else. (still fear for Lampard as I think he still has so much to offer) still not sold on Moses though. Couldn't care less if he stays or not.

 

[BelugaWhale]

I'm trying really hard not to get sucked into this is he isn't he thing as it will be like a brick falling from a great height if it doesn't happen. Like when we are winning a game by a few goals think we have got it made, all excited, and then fall flat on our faces in the last few minutes. But Luiz and Mata and Hazard will be here for a while yet whoever takes over. Oscar is taking longer to shine, but positioning is crucial with our team to work right and imo Benitez often plays player's in the wrong positions and wrong parings. It will be very interesting to see what our team looks like next year under somebody else. (still fear for Lampard as I think he still has so much to offer) still not sold on Moses though. Couldn't care less if he stays or not.

Moses is a good enough squad player for now. If he's happy with that then, I'm fine with him staying