Thatcher dead!

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No point, really. Other than to show that even though I disagree with Milliband's politics (a wide lefty pretending to be a centrist) he showed some class - no pun intented. Kudos to him.

Have to say some of your comments smack of class bigotry, PGF. Nothing is black and white.
 
So we've had 4 different prime ministers and 6 elections, but she is still responsible for the major problems you say. Can I ask don't you think in those 4 prime ministers they would be more responsible for where we are standing right now instead of her ?

I think labour has more to answer than her, didn't they say they'd get rid of boom and bust ? Didn't they go on about education education education ? Wonder how that turned up ? All these governments failed at many things, like Cameron saying he won't touch vat, or the promises on defence and the nhs. All lies, like Tony Blair and Gordon Brown before him!
 
Jager said:
Obviously you weren't around in the 70s when they ran everything through the back door, they had their objectives, one to have power without being elected, and to listen to their paymasters the communists.
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Jager

Was a student in 1979 - so was around during all of Maggie's tenure. My recollections are different to yours - the Unions 'ran' nothing really - there was a power strike once which was actually a magical candle-lit night that most kids enjoyed ... but when did the country come to this standstill you recall?

What I hated about her and her politics was the underlying rapacious greed - she was happy to decimate working class communities provided that the growing wealth of the priviledged few was sufficent to keep her and her party in power - you talk about elections - during those elections there was no cap on party funding and the wealthy businessman and cronies supporting the tories threw countless millions into PR campaigns that the other parties (even the polit bureau backed Labour party) could only wonder at ...

I remember on the morning of one election The Sun (portraying itself as the working man's paper of course) running a not very flattering picture of Neil Kinnock on its front page with the headline "If this man gets elected could the last person leaving the country switch the light off" ... just a part of the juggernaut machine that all but guaranteed Maggie's continued reign rather than, as you would have it, duly elected by a democratic majority ...

As I said in my first post - personally I find no 'joy' in her death - there is always a sadness in death - even if your sympathies are more towards those left behind than the deceased... but I also still have an abiding sadness towards the destructive and decisive policies that she appeared to take great enormous pleasure in implementing.

More in common with Lucretia Borgia than Mother Theresa ...

Won't post again on this thread - all I have to say.
 
PGFWhite said:
Damn peasants revolting, they should know their place the smelly bastards. Get back to the fields you peasants and remember "We're all in this together".

Fancy a champers Georgie? <laugh>
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Who is georgie ? I don't remember being against the working class, that would be very illogical considering I am one of them, as I said I've worked since I left school and have never claimed for anything, not just because I don't qualify but because I have some self esteem and believe that hard work brings its own rewards.
 
<laugh> It wasn't "magical" if you had an electric fire, Fosse....and it wasn't just one night. You must remember that. Industry lost power, too. It did cripple the country.

Did you have a relative who lay rotting in a coffin because the unions had called a completely unballoted strike?

Like I said, nothing is black and white.
 
FosseFilberto said:
Jager

Was a student in 1979 - so was around during all of Maggie's tenure. My recollections are different to yours - the Unions 'ran' nothing really - there was a power strike once which was actually a magical candle-lit night that most kids enjoyed ... but when did the country come to this standstill you recall?

What I hated about her and her politics was the underlying rapacious greed - she was happy to decimate working class communities provided that the growing wealth of the priviledged few was sufficent to keep her and her party in power - you talk about elections - during those elections there was no cap on party funding and the wealthy businessman and cronies supporting the tories threw countless millions into PR campaigns that the other parties (even the polit bureau backed Labour party) could only wonder at ...

I remember on the morning of one election The Sun (portraying itself as the working man's paper of course) running a not very flattering picture of Neil Kinnock on its front page with the headline "If this man gets elected could the last person leaving the country switch the light off" ... just a part of the juggernaut machine that all but guaranteed Maggie's continued reign rather than, as you would have it, duly elected by a democratic majority ...

As I said in my first post - personally I find no 'joy' in her death - there is always a sadness in death - even if your sympathies are more towards those left behind than the deceased... but I also still have an abiding sadness towards the destructive and decisive policies that she appeared to take great enormous pleasure in implementing.

More in common with Lucretia Borgia than Mother Theresa ...

Won't post again on this thread - all I have to say.
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The Sun was always a Tory mag, they would run anything that was pro Tory. But can you remember what the mirror printed back then ?

As been mentioned the so called privileged few would be the ones creating jobs. The ones making money like Richard Branson who made huge amounts at that time, he employs 10s of thousands and most people admire him, but he is what you term the privileged few. Self made man who took huge risks that paid off.

I am not a maggie fan, but I appreciate that she contributed hugely to this country, can the same be said for every PM after her ? All of them are the same kind of faceless grey person, they have no passion and don't IMO contribute in a way that will see them as great prime ministers, I can't recall anyone who could have matched her. Well except John Smith who was taken to early
 
Jager said:
I am not a maggie fan, but I appreciate that she contributed hugely to this country
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Yep, she had three million on the dole which is essential for a capitalist society to survive long term as the huge pool of potential labour is essential to frive wages down and increase profit.

Just as Dave is putting hundreds of thousands on the dole, his pool of labour is increasing and the race to the bottom is progressing as breakneck speed. Classic capitalism - and f*** the lives of normal people ruined in the process.

I hope your proud that there are no unions left to stall it.
 
Cravats are so last season. Flat caps still in? I'm actually working class born and bred - and proud of it. But anyone who has such a blinkered, cliched view of class in this country can never be persuaded to change their view.
 
It's a global recession not just the uk , as we are in the eu we are tied into them for better or worse. The unions would not make things better, in fact they consistently make things worse, I have yet to see one thing that the unions do that is positive.

I know one thing I would never join another union as they don't do anything I couldn't do myself. I have worked for a company with no union involved, we have have just had a 8% pay rise, there has been no strikes, we sort out any issues directly with the employer, and I am happy.

If a union agreement was in place I suspect that the first thing they would do is try to expand their membership, then try to drive a wedge between employer and employee, then demand double digit wage increases, and finally try and get people to threaten strike action.

Yes I'm proud that no sycophant union are in my work place !
 
Knackeredjack said:
Cravats are so last season. Flat caps still in? I'm actually working class born and bred - and proud of it. But anyone who has such a blinkered, cliched view of class in this country can never be persuaded to change their view.
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Cliched? Yep - the ruling class will fight to the death to protect their priveliged position in Society and they laugh at the pseudo middle classes who think they are better than the peasants.
 
Jager said:
It's a global recession not just the uk , as we are in the eu we are tied into them for better or worse. The unions would not make things better, in fact they consistently make things worse, I have yet to see one thing that the unions do that is positive.

I know one thing I would never join another union as they don't do anything I couldn't do myself. I have worked for a company with no union involved, we have have just had a 8% pay rise, there has been no strikes, we sort out any issues directly with the employer, and I am happy.

If a union agreement was in place I suspect that the first thing they would do is try to expand their membership, then try to drive a wedge between employer and employee, then demand double digit wage increases, and finally try and get people to threaten strike action.

Yes I'm proud that no sycophant union are in my work place !
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EIGHT PER CENT PAY RISE <laugh><laugh> What happened to the "We are in this together" bullshit <laugh>
 
<laugh> Like I said....

You really need to move on. No wonder Wales is in this mess if ts populated by so many people with chips on their shoulders. Bitterness and hatred destroys.

This debate has run its course for me, guys.

Peace out. <peacedove>
 
Knackeredjack said:
<laugh> Like I said....

You really need to move on. No wonder Wales is in this mess if ts populated by so many people with chips on their shoulders. Bitterness and hatred destroys.
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I am not bitter. I don't hate anyone.

But when Tory MP's stand up and say "We are all in this together" and then put hundreds of thousands of people on the dole and ensure people recieve pay cuts saying "It is fair", while multi national corporations and their fat cat chums hide billions to avoid tax I find that disgusting.

If you want to support that, that is your perogative. But I will fight to the death to support trade union members and the working population against the politics of greed, self gratification and the "me" society.
 
And by the way, exactly what the swans has just done for its directors, you don't have a problem with that, but appear to have a problem with someone working hard to succeed. Smacks of double standards to me PGF


PGFWhite said:
I have no problem with the dividend. If there are people who were owed money by the previous administration I would like to see them repaid.
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Jager said:
And by the way, exactly what the swans has just done for its directors, you don't have a problem with that, but appear to have a problem with someone working hard to succeed. Smacks of double standards to me PGF
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They are not harping on an "anti trade union" crusade like yourself. If you come on forums glorifying the ideology or figures of capitalism and criticsise trade unions then you should get your house in order and start doing what your purported leader is stating you are supposed to be doing.

All in this together? Fat chance.
 
PGFWhite said:
They are not harping on an "anti trade union" crusade like yourself. If you come on forums glorifying the ideology or figures of capitalism and criticsise trade unions then you should get your house in order and start doing what your purported leader is stating you are supposed to be doing.

All in this together? Fat chance.
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Why aren't trade unions above criticism in your world ? They are nothing better than any political party, after all that is what they are !

And PGF I haven't made assumptions about you, so don't make the assumption of me on this, I have nothing to get in order, I have no allegiance to the conservatives, so don't use their slogans in describing me.

I have told you previously I'm a labour voter, I don't particularly like them, but they are the lesser of two evils, and causes less damage to the country. If my vote really could be used to make a difference I would vote the Green Party , but that is wasted vote.
 
PGFWhite said:
You just told me not to make assumptions and you make a statement like that!
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Well you are making assumptions aren't you ? If I was coming here condemning thatcher you would whole heatedly agree with me, but because I am not you make the assumption that I am a conservative voter, even though it makes little difference if I was or not.

The point is you are condemning me because I have an opinion about unions , and you keep making this personal about me, well it's not its about thatcher and by extension the unions she broke. You will never make me change my mind about the left wing unionists, the same as I won't change your mind on thatcher.

The difference is though your little digs because I don't agree with your point of view undermines your argument, I don't feel the need to belittle you, as making me look like a Tory backbencher is a dig from you
 
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