Learning from mistakes and ambition

[Roo]

Spurf and Roo, did the Inter chairman not claim that money had been offered but it was below their valuation?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/21283085

Go to 2032. Looks like a fairly official quote to me.

when i said media stunt, i meant that the negotiations we false. - yes we entered them, but we weren't serious about it, hence the low figure which we knew they wouldnt accept. - but the reports still get out to all the fans to show that "we're trying"

 

[Roo]

We did have Falque as well who can do a proper winger job, but he's also been loaned. It's madness.

Morning SD,

urgh, don't. I've already gone off on one about that!

an injury to bale orlennon and soon we'll see comments from people saying "we've got no width" "we're too narrow", "it's too bunched around the box" and "we can't break anyone down".

 

[The Huddlefro]

Roo I see what you mean regarding a media stunt, but if that is the case then it is very disappointing that we weren't looking to seriously bring someone in. There are two issues here: 1) it seems that we won't go that extra mile to bring in someone we need and 2) that we might not be looking to resolve the striker issue at all. Both are very disappointing.

 

[Roo]

Great News about Kane.

I really hope the fans get behind him by cheering and "over supporting" him as a way of taking the pressure off. - but also as a way of sarcastically dropping a hint to Levy that we shouldn't be relying on one of our academy players and putting the pressure on him at the business end of the season!

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

People have mentioned strikers that have moved to other clubs, but we're in a position where we can't afford one that's definitely better than what we've got and bringing in cover's a bit tricky.
Levy's obviously only attempting to sign players with big potential or those that will go straight into the team, as funds have been diverted for the training facilities and stadium.
That leaves us chasing bargains in every window, unfortunately.

 

[Roo]

true, PNP.

can't believe we haven't seen GH10 appear out of the woodwork today. He's usually got some comments about Levy/Enic.

 

[Spurf]

true, PNP.

can't believe we haven't seen GH10 appear out of the woodwork today. He's usually got some comments about Levy/Enic.

We know what they are, do you have to see then written down or are you just looking for trouble?

 

[Roo]

We know what they are, do you have to see then written down or are you just looking for trouble?

everyone's entitled to an opinion. Despite not usually agreeing with the chap, I find him interesting to say the least.

some people really lay into the guy, which I think is harsh. Maybe that's why we haven't seen a post for a while.

 

[Spurm]

Great News about Kane.

I really hope the fans get behind him by cheering and "over supporting" him as a way of taking the pressure off. - but also as a way of sarcastically dropping a hint to Levy that we shouldn't be relying on one of our academy players and putting the pressure on him at the business end of the season!

I hope he gets the support from the fans. If i got the chance to attend a lot of games he would have mine, i still think he could have the potential to be a Spurs player and we need to nurture that.
I'm not sure i want him used to send a message to Levy though, even if it is in the form of over-supporting him. It just sounds like we are using him.
He could be the next Teddy, at this stage we just don't know. It seems the trend of 17-18yr olds making and impact in the prem is being reversed, there are some very good players that are only coming through at 22-23 which still makes Kane very young. What is he, 19-20? It takes a very special player to make an impact at a top club at that age nowadays. Even Phil Jones at Utd hasn't done what i expected for an £18m signing for example. But i'm sure he'll still be a hell of a player

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I'd love it if Kane could come in and make an impact. It's just what we need, for a start, but it might help to get the likes of Carroll, Smith, Pritchard and Luongo a shot, too.

 

[Boss]

The way I view Levy & ENIC is that you 1st need to ask yourself, why did they buy Tottenham?

A) To have a laugh and get some enjoyment out of running a football club and making us a success

or

B) Increase the value of our club, make an overall profit when the club is sold, and run the club as near to profit each year while they are owners, while understanding a degree of success on the pitch is vital.

I'll rule out A so with the answer being B, that means we have reached the limitations under their ownership, in terms of progressing from our current position, unless we can find the Next Berba, Modric, King & VDV in the next window, all for bargain prices , don't expect any real ambition to be shown in terms of signings.

ENIC are a business, and they purchased us for near to 80 million? (someone can correct me on that if they wish) and I think we're valued at around £450 million, so considering our value has been increased by over 300%, and we operate near to profit each year then they're achieving their aim and that means we can't take risks or show ambition as the fans would like.

 

[The Huddlefro]

The way I view Levy & ENIC is that you 1st need to ask yourself, why did they buy Tottenham?

A) To have a laugh and get some enjoyment out of running a football club and making us a success

or

B) Increase the value of our club, make an overall profit when the club is sold, and run the club as near to profit each year while they are owners, while understanding a degree of success on the pitch is vital.

I'll rule out A so with the answer being B, that means we have reached the limitations under their ownership, in terms of progressing from our current position, unless we can find the Next Berba, Modric, King & VDV in the next window, all for bargain prices , don't expect any real ambition to be shown in terms of signings.

ENIC are a business, and they purchased us for near to 80 million? (someone can correct me on that if they wish) and I think we're valued at around £450 million, so considering our value has been increased by over 300%, and we operate near to profit each year then they're achieving their aim and that means we can't take risks or show ambition as the fans would like.

Sounds similar to the argument I hinted at earlier in the thread Boss - that like Harry, Levy and ENIC may have taken us as far forward as we can go under their style of ownership. While I have nothing but respect and appreciation for the transformation we've undergone under their control it does also limit us once we achieve a certain degree of success/profitability. Of course a change of ownership is potentially far, far riskier than a change in management so I'm not advocating it really just yet but it is an interesting point to debate.

 

[Spurf]

everyone's entitled to an opinion. Despite not usually agreeing with the chap, I find him interesting to say the least.

some people really lay into the guy, which I think is harsh. Maybe that's why we haven't seen a post for a while.

Come off it Roo if there is any laying into, it comes from him. You make him sound like a pet hamster.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

We can't really show ambition in the sense that people want now, though.
The FFP rules would see to that.

 

[Boss]

Sounds similar to the argument I hinted at earlier in the thread Boss - that like Harry, Levy and ENIC may have taken us as far forward as we can go under their style of ownership. While I have nothing but respect and appreciation for the transformation we've undergone under their control it does also limit us once we achieve a certain degree of success/profitability. Of course a change of ownership is potentially far, far riskier than a change in management so I'm not advocating it really just yet but it is an interesting point to debate.

You have to respect them for the change, as at times I myself have been overly critical, yet much like yourself that will be because we're fans of the club and want to see us progress, but looking at how far we have come from the sugar days and looking at the fact we're now considered contenders/favourites for 3rd/4th at the start of each season, then to be fair we have come a huge way.

However, the issue for me, is that we build a team/squad, like last season that in my eyes was 1-2 signings away from making the next step up, yet what happens? we lose our two leading players (and king via retirement) and invest in potential to replace them, so we're not progressing and yes we're doing well in the league, to be 4th but its a fine line, 2 bad results and we could be 6th, so its frustrating, and like you, I want to see us show ambition to win big trophies, and with Enic/Levy, I just can't see this happening.

 

[Boss]

We can't really show ambition in the sense that people want now, though.
The FFP rules would see to that.

Excuse my ignorance on FFP, but is that really the case? QPR can invest way above their operating profit, taking huge risks and its "allowed", so what is exactly stopping Levy from taking risks (aside from his/ENIC's decisions) and that's a genuine question as I haven't taken much interest in FFP and how it currently effects us.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Excuse my ignorance on FFP, but is that really the case? QPR can invest way above their operating profit, taking huge risks and its "allowed", so what is exactly stopping Levy from taking risks (aside from his/ENIC's decisions) and that's a genuine question as I haven't taken much interest in FFP and how it currently effects us.

As I understand it, the FFP rules would see a club like QPR being omitted from European competition, if they were to qualify for it.
That doesn't really affect them at the moment, so they don't care.
If I've misread this, then I'd be happy for somebody to correct me.

 

[Spurf]

The way I view Levy & ENIC is that you 1st need to ask yourself, why did they buy Tottenham?

A) To have a laugh and get some enjoyment out of running a football club and making us a success

or

B) Increase the value of our club, make an overall profit when the club is sold, and run the club as near to profit each year while they are owners, while understanding a degree of success on the pitch is vital.

I'll rule out A so with the answer being B, that means we have reached the limitations under their ownership, in terms of progressing from our current position, unless we can find the Next Berba, Modric, King & VDV in the next window, all for bargain prices , don't expect any real ambition to be shown in terms of signings.

ENIC are a business, and they purchased us for near to 80 million? (someone can correct me on that if they wish) and I think we're valued at around £450 million, so considering our value has been increased by over 300%, and we operate near to profit each year then they're achieving their aim and that means we can't take risks or show ambition as the fans would like.

You might well be right Boss, I try to concentrate on the football but business dominates the sport. As you point out they have done a pretty good job so far, in fact you could argue that they have done better than anyone else in the current league with the resources available. I'm not sure I would enjoy the City or Chelsea situation if it were to happen at Spurs and that is the next stage. At least Spurs still looks like a club that is responsive to it's fans rather than one mans plaything. If they preside over a new stadium there is no reason to believe that they can't take Spurs to the next level and looking at their record I think they have more chance than most.

 

[Boss]

You might well be right Boss, I try to concentrate on the football but business dominates the sport. As you point out they have done a pretty good job so far, in fact you could argue that they have done better than anyone else in the current league with the resources available. I'm not sure I would enjoy the City or Chelsea situation if it were to happen at Spurs and that is the next stage. At least Spurs still looks like a club that is responsive to it's fans rather than one mans plaything. If they preside over a new stadium there is no reason to believe that they can't take Spurs to the next level and looking at their record I think they have more chance than most.

In many ways Spurf, we're in safe hands, which is actually reassuring.

"safe" "reassuring" not exciting words! but a necessity in today's football world.

I don't share your belief in that ENIC can take us to the next level, but I do share the view they have done a great job in taking us to our current position, while keeping us financially sound.

 

[The Huddlefro]

You have to respect them for the change, as at times I myself have been overly critical, yet much like yourself that will be because we're fans of the club and want to see us progress, but looking at how far we have come from the sugar days and looking at the fact we're now considered contenders/favourites for 3rd/4th at the start of each season, then to be fair we have come a huge way.

However, the issue for me, is that we build a team/squad, like last season that in my eyes was 1-2 signings away from making the next step up, yet what happens? we lose our two leading players (and king via retirement) and invest in potential to replace them, so we're not progressing and yes we're doing well in the league, to be 4th but its a fine line, 2 bad results and we could be 6th, so its frustrating, and like you, I want to see us show ambition to win big trophies, and with Enic/Levy, I just can't see this happening.

Exactly Boss, we've been at a crossroads at the end of last season and during this season IMO. Right now, with the players we have, we have the potential to be in and around the top 4 (basically staying in the top 6 and getting CL football every other year or so) but what has been needed is that extra something, the mythical 'extra gear' to really secure the top 4 spot and show ambition to our brightest stars that we are in the top 4 and plan to stay there, not just be there every few years and run others close the rest of the time. Part of that step was bringing in AVB as a different approach and the other part is a real marquee signing and that HAS to be a 'next level' striker to score goals IMO. And if the current club hierarchy cannot deliver this then, if they were in any way emotionally connected to the club, they would surely find a way of providing more funds to ensure that this signing was possible by forfeiting some measure of control to a wealthy investor or whatever they would need to do, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert. But because Spurs is well run as a business this isn't going to happen is it. But the massive issue with this is that if we don't find a way of getting in the player we really need, then our best players will surely leave if we don't secure CL football/win trophies (much less likely obviously without the signing), and we may well then regress to the level we started at, only losing the owners more money. Surely they have to realise at some point that bringing someone in might cause them to make a bit of a loss in the short term but with a few years of CL football revenue they'll have more than made up the loss.