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totsfan said:
Which one is the worse striker in the prem top team's Torres or Giroud?,both a pile of kack.
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Before his injury Torres was easily the best striker in the PL to be fair. In some ways you have to admire him for trying to change his game but he's shot of all confidence, it's painful watching him now.

As for Giroud too early to judge yet, I don't think he's that bad, but he isn't set up for Arsenal's style of play.

If we had RVP or even Ba from the beginning of the season we'd be top or at worst.. 2nd. I'd argue the same for Spurs as well. Chelsea and Spurs at the moment are not that far off challenging, Arsenal need a better GK, better CF and a replacement for Sagna but are packed with talent in the midfield. If teams play their cards right over the Summer, then the gap between the Manchester clubs and the rest will be minimal.
 
Ba is good, but he isn't a player that would turn you into title contenders, nor is RVP, as you don't have the managerial ability or stability to challenge for the title, while we don't have the overall quality to challenge for the title, even with RVP or Ba, much more to both our teams challenging then simply adding one striker.
 
Boss said:
Ba is good, but he isn't a player that would turn you into title contenders, nor is RVP, as you don't have the managerial ability or stability to challenge for the title, while we don't have the overall quality to challenge for the title, even with RVP or Ba, much more to both our teams challenging then simply adding one striker.
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I agree with you Ba but anyone is better than Torres. Ba at least contributes. Ba would have been the difference between winning and losing to the likes of West Ham, WBA and QPR. We've been carried by Mata and to a far lesser extent Hazard in terms of the goalscoring and creativity stakes.

As for Spurs I feel you are close to challenging, the biggest problem with Spurs was the mentality and belief that was always there for Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool away but absent in a cold night in Bolton, Sunderland etc. Spurs have finally shaken off that soft away tag, you just need that creative midfielder to break down well organised defences. United have that in Carrick, Chelsea in Mata/Hazard and Arsenal in Cazorla.
 
District Line said:
Before his injury Torres was easily the best striker in the PL to be fair. In some ways you have to admire him for trying to change his game but he's shot of all confidence, it's painful watching him now.

As for Giroud too early to judge yet, I don't think he's that bad, but he isn't set up for Arsenal's style of play.

If we had RVP or even Ba from the beginning of the season we'd be top or at worst.. 2nd. I'd argue the same for Spurs as well. Chelsea and Spurs at the moment are not that far off challenging, Arsenal need a better GK, better CF and a replacement for Sagna but are packed with talent in the midfield. If teams play their cards right over the Summer, then the gap between the Manchester clubs and the rest will be minimal.
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If Ba can bridge 6 & 11 point gaps and overhaul the same two teams who were 20+ points better than you last season, then he must be some player!

The addition of Ba doesn't satisfy me that you can defend competently regularly without Terry or be effective in midfield without Lampard. Mata is a top class player, but unless he performs, you've looked toothless in some games. You won 7 and drew one of your first 8 games- since then you've taken 23 points from 15 games (W6 D5 L4), which is little better than mid table form and worse than Liverpool, a team who are recognised as being in transition and need a number of better players to be considered top 4 standard, let alone title challengers.

To say Chelsea's ills would have been cured by the earlier addition of Ba is fanciful.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
If Ba can bridge a 6 & 11 point gaps and overhaul the same two teams who were 20+ points better than you last season, then he must be some player!

The addition of Ba doesn't satisfy me that you can defend competently regularly without Terry or be effective in midfield without Lampard. Mata is a top class player, but unless he performs, you've looked toothless in some games. You won 7 and drew one of your first 8 games- since then you've taken 23 points from 15 games (W6 D5 L4), which is little better than mid table form and worse than Liverpool, a team who are recognised as being in transitional and need a number of better players to be considered top 4 standard, let alone title challengers.

To say Chelsea's ills would have been cured by the earlier addition of Ba is fanciful.
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I didn't say that was the case, but having a top striker is the difference between having 45 points and 55, just the same with having a top GK. Mata has had to step up because the goals aren't going to come from Torres, in the same way RVP has said to step up because the goals aren't going to come from anywhere else.

Liverpool will challenge under Rodgers, but it isn't his squad. Part of the reason why United and City are far ahead of the rest is because they've built their own squads. In the bad run you mentioned our problem was never defending so much, it was scoring goals. After the robbery against United we only scored 3 goals in the next 5 games whilst conceding only 4, at which point we had 61 shots on goal across those 5 games so your insinuation we wouldn't be significantly better off with a better striker is laughable at best. Top strikers will always convert chances or be in the position to do so.
 
District Line said:
I agree with you Ba but anyone is better than Torres. Ba at least contributes. Ba would have been the difference between winning and losing to the likes of West Ham, WBA and QPR. We've been carried by Mata and to a far lesser extent Hazard in terms of the goalscoring and creativity stakes.

As for Spurs I feel you are close to challenging, the biggest problem with Spurs was the mentality and belief that was always there for Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool away but absent in a cold night in Bolton, Sunderland etc. Spurs have finally shaken off that soft away tag, you just need that creative midfielder to break down well organised defences. United have that in Carrick, Chelsea in Mata/Hazard and Arsenal in Cazorla.
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I know you speak fairly highly of our squad but I simply can't see us being able to challenge for the title with the way our club is run and yes we need a creative midfielder and is something many of us have been craving for, yet even with that addition I still can't see it.......Unless of course Levy has a nose bleed and signs Ronaldo!

But jokes aside, if you look at all the teams that have won the league since the premier league started, they tend to have a certain type of player, we're just some way short of being in that position.
 
I think you're all being a bit too previous in judging Ba. It's a bit like the situation with Sturridge at Liverpool,give them both time and they'll become less than average.

District,I found the highlights of your match against Arsenal. Cock well in was fouled so play should have been halted and yes,stonewall penalty so your luck continues,the first should not have stood. You're only worth a draw at home scored by a penalty so not much has changed at the Bridge has it? Lucky and poor home form.
Now you can counter that by saying we've been lucky recently and we have. Penalty not given against Rooney and a 93rd minute goal. We're getting your luck but the difference is that we have the coach and the players to turn that luck into skill.
 
The Mighty Thor said:
I think you're all being a bit too previous in judging Ba. It's a bit like the situation with Sturridge at Liverpool,give them both time and they'll become less than average.

District,I found the highlights of your match against Arsenal. Cock well in was fouled so play should have been halted and yes,stonewall penalty so your luck continues,the first should not have stood. You're only worth a draw at home scored by a penalty so not much has changed at the Bridge has it? Lucky and poor home form.
Now you can counter that by saying we've been lucky recently and we have. Penalty not given against Rooney and a 93rd minute goal. We're getting your luck but the difference is that we have the coach and the players to turn that luck into skill.
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Highlights are skewed though. For instance you don't see the penalty we should have had when Diaby hauled Oscar down to the ground, at which point both players immediately turned to the referee expecting a penalty to be given.

Even the most avid Chelsea hater/biggest Arsenal fan would admit we were miles better than them in that first half and 2-0 in no way, shape of form flattered us. Arsenal were dominant in the 2nd half but we still had two fantastic chances to kill the game off.

2-1 was probably a fair reflection of the game, Arsenal left it too late
 
you were the better team 1st half,motd showed why,but completely out of it 2nd half,yet Arsenal couldn't get back to draw,that's one of the reason's i think they are overated
 
totsfan said:
you were the better team 1st half,motd showed why,but completely out of it 2nd half,yet Arsenal couldn't get back to draw,that's one of the reason's i think they are overated
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There were loads of chances MOTD didn't show, they somehow made the 1st half look like an even game of football. The reality is we never really got out of 2nd gear and played with real nervousness (especially 2nd half) but still managed to win 2-1. In both matches against Arsenal we have won without playing close to our best, I remember the old days when we would batter Arsenal for 3/4 of the match and be winning, but still somehow go on to draw/lose the game. The two wins against them this season have been the easiest I can remember. Worrying times, Spurs and Everton made us work much harder for our wins.
 
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