Have we re-signed Scott Loach?

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bragantino

bragantino

Active Member
Jan 25, 2011
764
28
28
Warwickshire
Jonathan Bond was in a very difficult position starting the match in Manchester. I concede he has started matches before and stepped in when Scott Loach was sent off at St. Mary's against Southampton, but to go from the substitutes bench in the Championship to playing in front of nearly 47,000 people is a bit of a step up to say the least.

This thread is not a criticism of Jonathan at all, he did his best and was let down for the first goal by the defence giving away a free kick in a very stupid position, the wall allowing itself to be pushed out of position and a rather good shot by Carlos Tevez. The second and third goals were just slack marking leaving him exposed and could happen anywhere. Though wen called into action he was efficient and dealt with everything else quite well.

Now I come to my point in writing. On a couple of occasions yesterday Jonathan did something we haven't seen for over a year and a half. He flapped at shots. Luckily as a result the ball went away from any onrushing strikers. Manuel Almunia doesn't do this and Tomasz Kuszczak didn't, so what are the factor behind this? The factors here, as i see it, are two fold; Manuel Almunia and Tomasz Kuszczak have come to the club later in their careers and have experience of other goalkeeping coaches and still carry a lot of that instruction/knowledge with them and secondly Scott Loach and Jonathan Bond were very young when they arrived at Watford and have only known one mentor - Alec Chamberlain.

In all the matches I saw Alec play for the Hornets, of his 250 or so, I cannot remember him as a flapper. So why do his charges do it? Even Scott didn't do it after having Tomasz to learn from.
 
Listened to Tony Coton who was with Jon Marks yesterday talking about young Jonathan Bond. He believed that we have a keeper with loads of potential, but he still has a lot to learn. On a couple of occasions it was reported that he made good blocking saves, but the ball was not put into a 'safe' area, something that will come with experience. I don't know about him flapping at balls as I don't remember that being mentioned.

I was very worried when it became clear that he would have to play, thinking that he might freeze in front of a crowd that size. It is to his credit that he didn't and Mr. Coton didn't believe he had any chance to prevent the goals. So as with the rest of the team I think he did well enough, but at the end of the day they were just that bit better than us.
 
Let's hope he's not a flapper in every sense of the word:

"Flappers wore short skirts, bobbed their hair, listened to jazz, and flaunted their disdain for what was then considered acceptable behavior. Flappers were seen as brash for wearing excessive makeup, drinking, treating sex in a casual manner, smoking, driving automobiles and otherwise flouting social and sexual norms..."
 
hornethologist a.k.a. theo said:
Let's hope he's not a flapper in every sense of the word:

"Flappers wore short skirts, bobbed their hair, listened to jazz, and flaunted their disdain for what was then considered acceptable behavior. Flappers were seen as brash for wearing excessive makeup, drinking, treating sex in a casual manner, smoking, driving automobiles and otherwise flouting social and sexual norms..."
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Thankfully I only indulged in three of those heinous habits during my twenty years as a goalkeeper - which may explain why I was never described as a flapper.;)
 
hornethologist a.k.a. theo said:
Let's hope he's not a flapper in every sense of the word:

"Flappers wore short skirts, bobbed their hair, listened to jazz, and flaunted their disdain for what was then considered acceptable behavior. Flappers were seen as brash for wearing excessive makeup, drinking, treating sex in a casual manner, smoking, driving automobiles and otherwise flouting social and sexual norms..."
Click to expand...

I thought they were slappers?
 
i thought, considering the circumstances, Bond did really well. He made some great saves and he looked confident. It wasn't an easy place for him to start...but i think he's definitely going to be a good keeper. Having said all that, i have often worried about the goal keeping coaching staff, i think they let Scott down, and perhaps, from what you say, are in danger of letting Bond down too..i hope not!
 
Careful H, when I made a similar suggestion as to a reason why Loach did not improve in many areas of his game on 606 a few years ago, I was castigated for being negative about a Watford legend.
 
wear_yellow said:
Careful H, when I made a similar suggestion as to a reason why Loach did not improve in many areas of his game on 606 a few years ago, I was castigated for being negative about a Watford legend.
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really? Seems obvious to me..i mentioned it ages ago when Loach was really struggling. He may be a legend, but we can't say his coaching ability is proven can we? Ben Foster...assured future England star..where is he now? Scott Loach, assured future England star...hmm. Richard Lee....hmm...i'm seeing a pattern!
 
Hard to judge young Jonathan after 90 minutes against the Premier League champions, but I think he done well. I didnt see any what I would call 'flapping', but yes a couple of his parries yesterday put the ball back into dangerous areas but we got lucky.

Some thing that appeared to me is that could Bond be blamed for the first goal? Having seen it a few times he seemed like he never expected the ball to go to his left, so was a bit slow getting down to it (despite it being hit quite hard). The power of the shot was why I don't blame the two Watford defenders it went through too much (Doyley and Nosworthy?). I dont think they really could have got in the way being so close. Im not sure, people will differ. Apart from that Bond had a very assured game I though.

On the subject of Chamberlain, I will wait to see how Bond develops before judging Alec's coaching abilities. Does Alec really have a long term future at the club before Zola/Pozzis bring in their own man for the job?
 
emitass, I was surprised that they didn't replace him in the first place. I wonder whether 2 of our keepers being teenagers had anything to do with AC staying in that it wouldn't help if their coach changed at this stage of their development.

H, I think that's a bit unfair referring to Foster, as he's with a club pushing for European football and it's only him having a strop about not being first choice for the team and retiring from international football that means he's not in the England squad. I did think that maybe his club manager last season being the national manager might change that situation, but either Hodgson has spoken to Foster who is standing by his decision or knew that Foster wouldn't change his mind so decided not to waste his breath.
 
Jsybarry said:
emitass, I was surprised that they didn't replace him in the first place. I wonder whether 2 of our keepers being teenagers had anything to do with AC staying in that it wouldn't help if their coach changed at this stage of their development.

H, I think that's a bit unfair referring to Foster, as he's with a club pushing for European football and it's only him having a strop about not being first choice for the team and retiring from international football that means he's not in the England squad. I did think that maybe his club manager last season being the national manager might change that situation, but either Hodgson has spoken to Foster who is standing by his decision or knew that Foster wouldn't change his mind so decided not to waste his breath.
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i agree Barry, that was the reason given..but i firmly believe that Ben Foster would have been in that England squad if he'd been confident enough. He never played that well when he was with the England team. Maybe that's down to their coaches rather than ours, i don't know. Maybe down to the Manchester United crew...who knows...but he did get sidelined long before he turned down the place, a fair few times, i'm sure i remember that rightly.
 
We will have to see if Alec gets replaced or not. But if our promising young keepers don't perform then I am sure he will eventually be removed - hope that will not be the case!
 
Alec Chamberlain, been at the club years and a good servant, but the goalkeepers show real promise to a point and then stop developing. He obviously has a hand in bring the players on but is it a case of they get to a stage in their development where Alec cannot either take them further or they think they know it all. As said earlier they do show an awful lot of potential and then something goes wrong. Natural ability can only go so far.

The thing I noticed was SL was very jaded before TK arrived and when he left and SL had to perform again he was obviously rejuvinated. I know he played a lot for a young man, behind a defence that could not be regarded as the best. Do we actually expect too much of our young players with no back up for them for a long time, so they burn out far too early? Especially over the last few years where necessity pushed them forward, perhaps a little too quickly.
 
I do think that you have hit the nail on the head about our young players Zen. Hoban who has been a mainstay of our defence was left out of the squad for Man City. Zola said that Tommy was exhusted after the Christmas/ New Year games and needed a rest. Ashley Young was over played because we had to play him and it took him time to recover.

As for our keeper coach, although he was fair enough as a player for us, he never really could have been described as a top goalie. Maybe that is why his experience can only go so far.
 
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