Never mind the slight knee contact, the S'land players arm goes straight round Bales waist to pull him back.
What to do with Bale?
- Thread starter Moorpheus19
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Never mind the slight knee contact, the S'land players arm goes straight round Bales waist to pull him back.
The Bale situation reminds me a bit of when Cristiano Ronaldo first arrived at ManU. Spurs should follow ManU's example on this one. Totteham's players and AVB should tell Bale to stop hitting the deck just because he can. But Totteham's players and AVB should make a big deal of things every time an opposition player fouls Bale. AVB should make a point during every press conference - whether relevant to that game or not - that Bale is always fouled and that referees do nothing to protect him and cite various examples of this (Charlie Adam's "tackles" etc). The message will eventually filter through to the media, refs etc and Bale will start to get more favourable treatment from refs.
Bale stops any simulation, the opposition stop kicking lumps out of him and Bale is more likely to get a decision when he is fouled.....Well that's the theory anyway!
Bale stops any simulation, the opposition stop kicking lumps out of him and Bale is more likely to get a decision when he is fouled.....Well that's the theory anyway!
ship him off to spain where he'll fit in
Ironic from somebody who names himself are Didier Drogba. A little self awareness goes a long way.
There was contact but debatable if it's enough to bring a player down regardless of the pace you're running at. But he made a rod for his own back with dives earlier in the season. Now he just needs to spend some game time now not going down at all to get rid of the reputation. His comments don't help him either (particularly the one where he suggests that any contact equals foul).
Certainly not a foul.
Certainly not a foul.
For me the argument that if there is contact, then it's a foul is a non starter, and if Bale genuinely believes that then he needs a re think, which is where AVB has to step in IMO.
On the case of today, there is no doubt in my mind that this was a foul, there is clear intent by the player to obstruct Bale's progress which in itself is a foul, but also the contact warrants a pen on this occasion. It is a classic case of, outside the area and the Ref probably gives it if you ask me, or minimum doesn't book him. It has always annoyed me why, in the box we seem to have different rules.
The problem that Bale has with this particular incident, is the movement of his standing leg. It is quite clearly not a natural movement if you are knocked over, as your instinct would be to use that leg to stop your fall, rather than hang it in the air. As someone pointed our earlier, Sessegnon was doing this all game, yet seemed to get a free kick on almost every occasion (including the one that led to the goal), so very little excuse for the Ref.
On the case of today, there is no doubt in my mind that this was a foul, there is clear intent by the player to obstruct Bale's progress which in itself is a foul, but also the contact warrants a pen on this occasion. It is a classic case of, outside the area and the Ref probably gives it if you ask me, or minimum doesn't book him. It has always annoyed me why, in the box we seem to have different rules.
The problem that Bale has with this particular incident, is the movement of his standing leg. It is quite clearly not a natural movement if you are knocked over, as your instinct would be to use that leg to stop your fall, rather than hang it in the air. As someone pointed our earlier, Sessegnon was doing this all game, yet seemed to get a free kick on almost every occasion (including the one that led to the goal), so very little excuse for the Ref.
This issue isn't black or white. Bale doesn't dive all the time or none of the time. But there are many occasions when he seems to go to ground far too easily. Refs have spotted this and he's earned a reputation fairly or otherwise. Bale is going to find it very difficult to shake this off until he makes a conscious decision to stay on his feet. Even when it's established he has been fouled, he is often theatrical in his reaction. Ronaldo did the same, as others have pointed out, but these days he realises that he's far more effective staying on his feet.
It was a dive, he chose to go down and a player is cheating any time he chooses to hit the deck even if there is contact.
Now if they only started booking everyone who did that.
Now if they only started booking everyone who did that.
Today's was not a total dive.
Bale does dive.
All players seem to think (and with great justification) that contact = foul.
Bale is being singled out for the sort of cheating that all pros do but just has never happened when I've played for fun. And this is the thing. I hate all this contact = going down = penalty thing. I think that if I was playing a game and someone did it to me I would think that person was a knob. And that's a pretty good gauge I think. It's knobbish.
However since Bale seems to be getting booked for it nowadays I would definitely think that the thing to do would be something along the lines of what what The Tottenham Hotspur Nexus suggests above. These bookings of Bale are a media creation and the problem needs to be partly addressed there. AVB needs to make it an issue - keep pressure on for either referees to be consistent or for the diving issue to be properly addressed. And at the same time Bale needs to stay on his feet more and (I'm sorry to say) be a bit more vocal to referees about EVERY time that he's fouled.
Bale does dive. But only slightly more than pretty much every attacking player in the EPL. Yet he is punished much, much more for it than the rest (most of whom are never punished but instead rewarded).
Personally I'd like it be the rule that you have to try to stay on your feet (unless you need to protect yourself, obviously). And retrospective five-game bans using video evidence for blatant (no or only inconsequential contact) dives.
Bale does dive.
All players seem to think (and with great justification) that contact = foul.
Bale is being singled out for the sort of cheating that all pros do but just has never happened when I've played for fun. And this is the thing. I hate all this contact = going down = penalty thing. I think that if I was playing a game and someone did it to me I would think that person was a knob. And that's a pretty good gauge I think. It's knobbish.
However since Bale seems to be getting booked for it nowadays I would definitely think that the thing to do would be something along the lines of what what The Tottenham Hotspur Nexus suggests above. These bookings of Bale are a media creation and the problem needs to be partly addressed there. AVB needs to make it an issue - keep pressure on for either referees to be consistent or for the diving issue to be properly addressed. And at the same time Bale needs to stay on his feet more and (I'm sorry to say) be a bit more vocal to referees about EVERY time that he's fouled.
Bale does dive. But only slightly more than pretty much every attacking player in the EPL. Yet he is punished much, much more for it than the rest (most of whom are never punished but instead rewarded).
Personally I'd like it be the rule that you have to try to stay on your feet (unless you need to protect yourself, obviously). And retrospective five-game bans using video evidence for blatant (no or only inconsequential contact) dives.
just seen this again on MOTD and to be fair to the ref it looked like a dive, the ref doesnt have the benefit of replays.
Also they showed a few clips of aguero who stays on his feet (even if clipped.or touched) just to show players dont have to go down like a sack of bricks when any contact is made.
Also they showed a few clips of aguero who stays on his feet (even if clipped.or touched) just to show players dont have to go down like a sack of bricks when any contact is made.
The more I read the differing views on the Bale issue the more confusing it becomes so this is an attempt to clear the fog.
1. If we accept that Bale is honest in this then he obviously feels victimised. He has said contact 'entitles' him to go down. He is therefore saying saying he chooses to fall. This is the culture encouraged by managers for years: If you are fouled then go down and make sure the ref sees it. Although not technically cheating (you are just emphasising a truth) it is not straight forward honest play is it! However this is the culture Bale plays in so he will see it as the norm.
2. It's very difficult to sort out when a player goes down without contact because it all happens in a split second but we now know this happens all the time because we have the benefit of replays from several angles. Clearly refs are using reputation of individuals to sway their decisions which can't be right but is understandable in the culture of trying to influence the decision by falling.
So the whole issue of diving is mixed up in the general culture of falling when fouled. Tottenham Hotspur Nexus probably has the right approach. Bale now has to convince that he is not diving by staying on his feet whenever possible. Even to the point of not winning the foul. Honest players have to behave in a different manner to cheats if they want to be seen as such to enable refs to spot the difference.
1. If we accept that Bale is honest in this then he obviously feels victimised. He has said contact 'entitles' him to go down. He is therefore saying saying he chooses to fall. This is the culture encouraged by managers for years: If you are fouled then go down and make sure the ref sees it. Although not technically cheating (you are just emphasising a truth) it is not straight forward honest play is it! However this is the culture Bale plays in so he will see it as the norm.
2. It's very difficult to sort out when a player goes down without contact because it all happens in a split second but we now know this happens all the time because we have the benefit of replays from several angles. Clearly refs are using reputation of individuals to sway their decisions which can't be right but is understandable in the culture of trying to influence the decision by falling.
So the whole issue of diving is mixed up in the general culture of falling when fouled. Tottenham Hotspur Nexus probably has the right approach. Bale now has to convince that he is not diving by staying on his feet whenever possible. Even to the point of not winning the foul. Honest players have to behave in a different manner to cheats if they want to be seen as such to enable refs to spot the difference.
Bale is a great player. He is fooling nobody when he says slight contact/getting clipped justifies him going down. I was at the match and in real time it had all the hallmarks of a dive. IMHO he could have kept going, and yes the ref missed Defoe's dive when there was not contact.
So Bale needs to stop playing for pens, he is a good player with a growing rep as a cheat, he can win games without cheating, he needs to get on doing it.
So Bale needs to stop playing for pens, he is a good player with a growing rep as a cheat, he can win games without cheating, he needs to get on doing it.
Spurf, your number 1 point is the situation, Bale dives as soon as contact is made and he practically admitted this in his interview yeaterday.
However this isn't just a Bale issue, it has been in the game for years, mostly abroad and when the premier started to bring in more players from abroad, we saw players diving week in ,week out.
Since then its become the norm and players feel they are entitled to dive if contact is made.
You can argue that Bale doesnt feel he is diving and is just trying to ensure he gets the foul but essentialy i believe he is trying his best to trick the ref and instead of staying on his feet, he flys through the air.
However this isn't just a Bale issue, it has been in the game for years, mostly abroad and when the premier started to bring in more players from abroad, we saw players diving week in ,week out.
Since then its become the norm and players feel they are entitled to dive if contact is made.
You can argue that Bale doesnt feel he is diving and is just trying to ensure he gets the foul but essentialy i believe he is trying his best to trick the ref and instead of staying on his feet, he flys through the air.
Bale is being singled out as a diver when in fact he is being fouled, he may go down a little theatrically but how come proven habitual Premier League divers (of which there are many others) such as Suarez, Drogba, Carzorla, Young, Van Persil, Gerrard, Nasri, Walcott etc etc have not had the same treatment as Bale.
Indeed all the above and many others have benefited from game changing decisions due to their diving on more than one occasion. I have yet to see Bale gain any advantage from any of his supposed `dives` and has been instead unjustly booked.
The inept, incompetent, easily led and slightly biased referees association seem to have unjustly targeted Bale and have forgotten about other players who have been left to carry on and slip under the radar.
Indeed all the above and many others have benefited from game changing decisions due to their diving on more than one occasion. I have yet to see Bale gain any advantage from any of his supposed `dives` and has been instead unjustly booked.
The inept, incompetent, easily led and slightly biased referees association seem to have unjustly targeted Bale and have forgotten about other players who have been left to carry on and slip under the radar.
Every guest on Sunday Supplement this morning agreed Bale is not a diver, and yesterdays decision was a massive howler from the ref, regardless of how slight contact was or wasn't....Gardner made no attempt to play the bloody ball!!! he went for the man and that is quite simply...a foul!
You're right but the issues of 'falling' and 'diving' still need to be addressed otherwise we just win the argument and lose the decisions. There are issues on both sides (players and refs) so therefore the authorities need to look at what they have done to the game with their 'improvements' to the rules or at least their advice to referees.
S
Spur of the Moment
Guest
Forget any ongoing debate - Bale did not dive yesterday - it was a foul - by leg and also arm, should have been a penalty, no booking for Bale and a booking (at least) for the Sunderland defender. End of.....
Maybe the ref did have a bad view and thought otherwise, but what should be debated is why a clear mistake by an official cannot be corrected and a player is lost to an unwarranted suspension.
Maybe the ref did have a bad view and thought otherwise, but what should be debated is why a clear mistake by an official cannot be corrected and a player is lost to an unwarranted suspension.
Watch it again and tell me at what point Gardner tries to play the ball, there's not even an attempt, he goes for the man, so where in the rules is this 'not a foul'?
S
Spur of the Moment
Guest
Agree with this, but you have to wonder what earthly use the 'meeting' between AVB/Bale and the Refs Association achieved last week......
