Should Wenger stay or go?

[velachiperoo]

Depends what happens between now and the end of the season and whether the board give him the money to buy the players that we need. If we finish outside of the top four, then I think Wenger might walk anyway, having felt that he's failed to deliver on the the absolute minimum.

Word of warning :

Be careful what you wish for. Sacking the manager is not a magic wand for automatically improving the situation.

If anything, it would probably mean that we're looking at another long term project of rebuilding, new tactics, new coaching which could take a few years to come to fruition. Would those who are calling for Wenger's head be willing to be patient with a new manager ? Or would they be on his back, like they are with Wenger ?

My personal feeling is that Wenger is still one of the best there is - and given the money to buy the players that Utd, City and Chelsea would snap up, he would be able to build another title winning squad within a couple of seasons.

I agree with you to a certain extent if in Jan and early on in summer we dont strengthen then a new manager would have to be likely as that is the only way we will get some traction on the transfers front. But that doesn't excuse a lot of the things wenger is failing at - tactical naievity , playing players horribly out of position and also persisting with sub par players, rigidness of style for example why are both are FBs always up the pitch when neither can cross and worst of all it is only ever Giroud in the box (still gets my goat) how hard is it to say one go and one stay.

I do believe if we do win a few games on the bounce we will go on a run as we are confidence players and right now the team is bereft of any, however we will then lose one and go on a run of losses. We are not trying/doing anything with what we have got and things have to change and wenger has to open his eyes.

 

[PINKIE]

Can you not see how tactically inept he is? He's terribly predictable in every...single...game. That doesn't change with more money. His flaws are being exposed over, and over, and over again and nothing is changing.

I'd like him to change formation to suit the players we have got. I think he plays too many players out of position, so yes I don't think he's faultless and I do think he is too stubborn. But I do think the money would make the difference if we were given permission to spend to get the same type of players that the top three are able to. Wenger hasn't suddenly 'lost it', he's been working with one hand tied behind his back for the last seven years. If the board stay true to their promise and give us the cash we need to buy the right players, then I think Wenger should be given the chance to build that squad.

Like I said, simply sacking the manager is not a magic wand for instant improvement. It would likely take longer to win something with a new manager + cash than with Wenger + cash

 

[lazarus20000]

Depends what happens between now and the end of the season and whether the board give him the money to buy the players that we need. If we finish outside of the top four, then I think Wenger might walk anyway, having felt that he's failed to deliver on the the absolute minimum.

Word of warning :

Be careful what you wish for. Sacking the manager is not a magic wand for automatically improving the situation.

If anything, it would probably mean that we're looking at another long term project of rebuilding, new tactics, new coaching which could take a few years to come to fruition. Would those who are calling for Wenger's head be willing to be patient with a new manager ? Or would they be on his back, like they are with Wenger ?

My personal feeling is that Wenger is still one of the best there is - and given the money to buy the players that Utd, City and Chelsea would snap up, he would be able to build another title winning squad within a couple of seasons.

Correction, he was once. Fergie, who i don't like but regard him as the greatest manager in Premier league history, no longer thinks he is a threat. This isn't even a recent thing, it's been for a number of years now Piskie. As soon as Fergie becomes friendly with you, you know that it's over.

In my opinion, Guardiola would be a perfect fit for Arsenal. I disagree with you and many others on this forum about us needing players, i think our first 11 is very good at the moment. I can see Guardiola making an instant impact on our squad.

 

[PINKIE]

I agree with you to a certain extent if in Jan and early on in summer we dont strengthen then a new manager would have to be likely as that is the only way we will get some traction on the transfers front. But that doesn't excuse a lot of the things wenger is failing at - tactical naievity , playing players horribly out of position and also persisting with sub par players, rigidness of style for example why are both are FBs always up the pitch when neither can cross and worst of all it is only ever Giroud in the box (still gets my goat) how hard is it to say one go and one stay.

I do believe if we do win a few games on the bounce we will go on a run as we are confidence players and right now the team is bereft of any, however we will then lose one and go on a run of losses. We are not trying/doing anything with what we have got and things have to change and wenger has to open his eyes.

I agree, it's frustrating. But I think he's working with what he's got. Although it is infuriating that he persists with players/tactics when they clearly aren't working.

 

[PINKIE]

Correction, he was once. Fergie, who i don't like but regard him as the greatest manager in Premier league history, no longer thinks he is a threat. This isn't even a recent thing, it's been for a number of years now Piskie. As soon as Fergie becomes friendly with you, you know that it's over.

In my opinion, Guardiola would be a perfect fit for Arsenal. I disagree with you and many others on this forum about us needing players, i think our squad is very good at the moment. I can see Guardiola making an instant impact on our squad.

What do you think Guardiola would do differently ? I'm not saying he wouldn't, but I'm just interested to know how you think he could turn it around with the players we've got.

 

[TheBear]

Football is THE most popular sport in the World - there are LOADS of quality young managers who 'might' do a great job replacing Arsene.


Jurgen Klopp - Managed to do for Dortmund what Arsene did for us. On a tiny budget he has built one of the finest squads in Europe. Would be my first choice.
Mircea Lucescu - Shaktar Donetsk's manager. On a FAR smaller budget than ours he has built a fantastic attacking team that has dominated the league and now look a genuine force in Europe.
Frank Rijkaard - He promotes free-flowing, exciting, attacking football.(Won the Champions League at Barca, still young.)
Gus Hiddink - Extremely good track record both at Club and International level.
Jorge Jesus - The Benfica manager took his club to the Portuguese league title and helped them win the national cup last season.
Unai Emery - Regarded as one of the most promising young Spanish managers around, he has managed to hold Valencia together during a financial crisis
Josep Guardiola - Obviously.
José Mourinho - Boring football but.. He wins wherever he goes.

 

[lazarus20000]

I agree, it's frustrating. But I think he's working with what he's got. Although it is infuriating that he persists with players/tactics when they clearly aren't working.

Working with what he's got? You make out like he's got a cr@p team or something. He has some really good players at his disposal. Since RVP's departure, we look like a better all round team. With Pod, Giroud and Carzola in, we also have Wilshere back from injury and firing again. We have a fully fit squad, but we are still looking poor. The buck ends with the manager, and the managers name is Wenger.

 

[PINKIE]

So what do you think Guardiola would do differently to make us win trophies ?

 

[lazarus20000]

What do you think Guardiola would do differently ? I'm not saying he wouldn't, but I'm just interested to know how you think he could turn it around with the players we've got.

Firstly he is younger, has newer and fresher ideas. He wouldn't be plagued by the stubborness of Wenger, play players out of position, get rid of players that are coming close to 30 and he wouldn't be scared to make major changes. He would also attract many Spanish/foreign players and command a great deal of respect. Also we might get players back that have left, namely Fabregas!

 

[Krome]

Not sure anyone could do much with the current squad, and bear in mind Walcott and Sagna will be gone by the time Wenger leaves.

Whoever takes over is going to need some time to rebuild the team so don't be surprised if we do a Liverpool for a few seasons

 

[PINKIE]

Firstly he is younger, has newer and fresher ideas. He wouldn't be plagued by the stubborness of Wenger, play players out of position, get rid of players that are coming close to 30 and he wouldn't be scared to make major changes. He would also attract many Spanish/foreign players and command a great deal of respect. Also we might get players back that have left, namely Fabregas!

So you're saying that we do need new players then ?

 

[lazarus20000]

So you're saying that we do need new players then ?

I think our first 11 is very good, we just need to get rid of some of the deadwood and replace them with decent bench players. This is something Guardiola would do. Also he would sort the little things out, like our defensive issues, workrate and concentration. We all like the idea of a DM and i think this is something he would employ. He used biscuits (yes i dislike that guy), as defensive cover for the back 4.

 

[The Bonstar Wandit]

So you're saying that we do need new players then ?

No-one is denying that some of the players are naf. But that is not the ONLY problem. Playing players out of position, playing the same rubbish players, playing the same tactics and formation against all opposition are problems too. Signing new and better players will paper over some of the cracks, but that's all it will do. The problems are deeper than the players, and the buck stops with Wenger.

 

[suker_suker]

For me, I'm inclined to wait and see what happens in January and next summer. If we get some serious investment then we should give Wenger 1 more season to win something. If we had a great squad he would have absolutely no excuses and if we saw another lacklustre season then cheerio. Having said that it's beginning to look like Wenger's management is not what it was. We have a lot of dross in the squad that HE BOUGHT but we have a good enough squad to be doing better than we are and there is certainly a case for the argument that a more modern, up and coming, talented manager would have better results. The jury's out for me....

 

[PINKIE]

No-one is denying that some of the players are naf. But that is not the ONLY problem. Playing players out of position, playing the same rubbish players, playing the same tactics and formation against all opposition are problems too. Signing new and better players will paper over some of the cracks, but that's all it will do. The problems are deeper than the players, and the buck stops with Wenger.

I'm not saying it is fella. I was responding to a post that said Guardiola wouldn't need new players, but then said that one of the things he could do to improve Arsenal would be to attract better players.

I agree, and have pointed out where I think Wenger makes mistakes in persisting with tactics/players/positions that don't work, so I don't think he is faultless at all. But what I do think is that he does need some better players that can play the roles he wants effectively.

 

[TheBear]

Actually I disagree. The big problem with the current squad is the 'way' we play.


We play a high line, the defence and the midfield push up but we no longer have the quality of Henry/Berkamp/RVP at the top of the pitch to make this work.
Inevitably we end up conceding goals on the break because we lack the sharpness at the top end of the pitch to do anything with the all the posession we tend to have.

For example last night we had 34 attempts on goal - only 6 of which where on target.

Another stat .Giroud has only had 3 shots on target in his last three games.

I still think we have the quality in midfield, our defence is shaky but the real issue is the fact we play an attacking style but dont have the personnel to really make this work. A manager like Mourinho would undoutedly do better with this squad, I think he would have us playing in a more conservative style because we lack the cutting edge to play way.

Either we need to add a World Class forward or completely change our style of play.

 

[PINKIE]

I think our first 11 is very good, we just need to get rid of some of the deadwood and replace them with decent bench players. This is something Guardiola would do. Also he would sort the little things out, like our defensive issues, workrate and concentration. We all like the idea of a DM and i think this is something he would employ. He used biscuits (yes i dislike that guy), as defensive cover for the back 4.

Agree, we need better strength through the squad. This is a problem that has plagued us for years and the reason, because we've not spent the sort of money needed to add the right type of quality and we've sold our best players along the way. For me this is an issue at board level. Like I've said, Wenger is not faultless, but he's been working with what he's got.

That said, I think we need to change our formation to suit the players we currently have and stop persisting with playing players out of position and I think we are crying out for a decent DM.

 

[Krome]

Lol you've really got it in for Giroud...

Its not just the striker, our wide men in the front 3 are all useless

 

[lazarus20000]

I'm not saying it is fella. I was responding to a post that said Guardiola wouldn't need new players, but then said that one of the things he could do to improve Arsenal would be to attract better players.

I agree, and have pointed out where I think Wenger makes mistakes in persisting with tactics/players/positions that don't work, so I don't think he is faultless at all. But what I do think is that he does need some better players that can play the roles he wants effectively.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I said that the first 11 is very good and that Guardiola would go about to improve it. But this is Wenger's team, players he bought and believed in. I think he would ulimately need to buy new ones to fit his vision. But i don't think he needs a truckload of money, the money is there and i think he would have enough to bring in what he needs to make us competitive again.

 

[lazarus20000]

Agree, we need better strength through the squad. This is a problem that has plagued us for years and the reason, because we've not spent the sort of money needed to add the right type of quality and we've sold our best players along the way. For me this is an issue at board level. Like I've said, Wenger is not faultless, but he's been working with what he's got.

That said, I think we need to change our formation to suit the players we currently have and stop persisting with playing players out of position and I think we are crying out for a decent DM.

Agreed, we do need some sort of enforcer that is disciplined enough to cover the back 4, as well as keep the ball moving.