AVB The Beginning

[Spurf]

In the interests of balance I thought I would post a thread in support of AVB. There are big divisions in opinion among Spurs fans on AVB so it's timely to remember that we all want the best for Spurs.COYS Yeah come on Spurs we can all agree on that.

Many have openly expressed their dislike of the appointment of AVB even before he joined. Based it seems to me on their perceptions of his performance at Chelsea. That performance is open to debate and we can go into that in the thread if you want but to me it's more important to focus on where we are right now. 12 games into a season and we are not too far off where we would like to be. Whatever your opinion of AVB the change of manager was always going to be disruptive to the squad. New priorities, changes of players and tactics all mean performance in the short term would suffer to a lesser or greater extent.

Those in the anti-AVB camp are constantly telling us how patient they are, how they are prepared to give the man a chance. Really? I'm not convinced at all that minds are open. Jumping in with the 'I told you so' at every opportunity to me suggests closed minds. Some seem more interested in letting us know about their superior understanding of the game than any fair minded assessment of AVB.

So how has this season panned out so far. For a start, no club is having it all it's own way, a look at this weekends games will tell you that. We have had some poor performances and one really surprisingly good result. We are yet to field out strongest 11 with major players injuries. Which ever way you look at it, at this stage, it's difficult to assess what will happen. We could see the return of our major players go on a good run and end up in the top 4. Alternatively we could continue to stutter and end up mid table.

Whatever happens it's still quite likely that AVB will be the manager so it's in our interest as Spurs fans to get behind him and give him every chance of success. Calling for his head and showing dissent after every setback may help your ego but for sure it wont help Spurs.

So I say if you are really interested in the best for Spurs then bite your lip and get behind the team and the manager and give them your support. Whatever your opinion this has to be the best option does it not?

 

[Sidney Fiddler]

"superior understanding of the game"
Spurf

Thanks,
The season of goodwill to all men , is nearly upon us.

 

[Spurf]

"superior understanding of the game"
Spurf

Thanks,
The season of goodwill to all men , is nearly upon us.

So I take that as a vote of confidence do I Sid?

 

[Sir_Red]

The hard thing for AVB is he is taking over a team that finished 4th from a manager that was sacked not because he was useless, but because he didn't get on with Levy. It's like sacking SAF for no real reason and expecting his replacement to immediately keep United at the top of the table when realistically they are always going to drop 3/4 places whilst they take time to gel and learn a new way of playing. AVB will need time and backing in the transfer window and 6/7th and higher will be a good achievement for him this season I reckon

 

[BringBackfootie]

The hard thing for AVB is he is taking over a team that finished 4th from a manager that was sacked not because he was useless, but because he didn't get on with Levy. It's like sacking SAF for no real reason and expecting his replacement to immediately keep United at the top of the table when realistically they are always going to drop 3/4 places whilst they take time to gel and learn a new way of playing. AVB will need time and backing in the transfer window and 6/7th and higher will be a good achievement for him this season I reckon

Oh
No
You
Ddn't

 

[Roo]

well said Spurf (especially on the bit about people saying they are open minded. I've thought exactly the same.)

AVB's not put a foot wrong so far, IMO. - A few tactical errors and subs, but we could be saying that about any manager after any game!! It's the rest of it that he get's tarnished with that does my head in. - totally out of his control. People just aren't prepared to give him a fair chance, because their ego gets in the way.

The majority of chelsea fans want to see him fail. The thought of him succeeding with us makes them look stupid for sacking him, so that's a big fear for them deep down. (2 of my chelsea mates admitted that)

The press/pundits/media are all harry's mates and have said so much, they can't go back on what they've said, so they want him to fail.

And even posters on forums like this fail to see how limited he's been. he's even done the things that we've all been crying out for. he's switched to a 442 like most of us asked for, he stopped the negative tactics and went for the win against arsenal. He's listening to the fans and doing all that's in his control, but the fans still give him grief.

it's totally unacceptable to be honest. Get behind the manager of our club!!

Make your voices heard and moan all you like, when he's got/has:

1) A full first team to choose from which includes Kabs, Benny, Parker and Dembele (arguably the heart of our team)
2) Signings to fill the holes which still remain
3) An acceptable amount of games under his belt which include points 1 and 2.

At that point, you have a fair argument. So for now, give the man a ****ing break. He's the manager of the club we all support. Let's not turn ourselves into Blackburn Rovers FFS.

Rant over.

 

[Spurf]

well said Spurf (especially on the bit about people saying they are open minded. I've thought exactly the same.)

AVB's not put a foot wrong so far, IMO. - A few tactical errors and subs, but we could be saying that about any manager after any game!! It's the rest of it that he get's tarnished with that does my head in. - totally out of his control. People just aren't prepared to give him a fair chance, because their ego gets in the way.

The majority of chelsea fans want to see him fail. The thought of him succeeding with us makes them look stupid for sacking him, so that's a big fear for them deep down. (2 of my chelsea mates admitted that)

The press/pundits/media are all harry's mates and have said so much, they can't go back on what they've said, so they want him to fail.

And even posters on forums like this fail to see how limited he's been. he's even done the things that we've all been crying out for. he's switched to a 442 like most of us asked for, he stopped the negative tactics and went for the win against arsenal. He's listening to the fans and doing all that's in his control, but the fans still give him grief.

it's totally unacceptable to be honest. Get behind the manager of our club!!

Make your voices heard and moan all you like, when he's got/has:

1) A full first team to choose from which includes Kabs, Benny, Parker and Dembele (arguably the heart of our team)
2) Signings to fill the holes which still remain
3) An acceptable amount of games under his belt which include points 1 and 2.

At that point, you have a fair argument. So for now, give the man a ****ing break. He's the manager of the club we all support. Let's not turn ourselves into Blackburn Rovers FFS.

Rant over.

Good rant Roo

 

[Spurf]

Rantaroo!

 

[No Kane No Gain]

The hard thing for AVB is he is taking over a team that finished 4th from a manager that was sacked not because he was useless, but because he didn't get on with Levy. It's like sacking SAF for no real reason and expecting his replacement to immediately keep United at the top of the table when realistically they are always going to drop 3/4 places whilst they take time to gel and learn a new way of playing. AVB will need time and backing in the transfer window and 6/7th and higher will be a good achievement for him this season I reckon

Totally agree with this and I've said similar before.

I expected there to be a fair few players at 'Pool to be considered not technical enough for the manager I didn't see any of our players not fitting in so much with AVB. Partly I think down to forgetting just how slow Huddlestone is and also expecting VDV to stay and then expecting Dempsey and Sig to fit straight in. It's going to take a couple more transfer windows for AVB to get the kind of squad together that he wants and it shouldn't be forgotten that there were some positives to the style AVB had us playing when we had Dembele fit. The trouble is that the creative role Dembele plays carries a lot of responsibility and when you replace a quality player with someone who's unfit, lacking a bit of sharpness and generally not too suited to the role it can derail the whole philosophy. AVB does seem to recognise that it's not possible to play how he wants right now and that's a good thing and even with injuries we should have enough to be top 6 so I do expect us to improve our league position to atleast that by the time we're halfway through the season.

 

[Spurlock]

As I have thought on many occasions with regard this topic, Spurf I usually end up nodding my head at your posts....and this one is the same. Your spot on with your analysis.

Lately I've been a bit jittery with the thought that AVB will be ousted out due to the intense pressure...vultures are circling....I can see it.

The guy has had 5 months and a team missing most of it's big players.

People keep on saying he is the next Ramos...however I just don't see the comparison apart from he is foreign aswell. With AVB despite some results not going as planned...I still see signs that we are in a good place. For me the fact that we have an enthusiastic manager..one who has the players on side as it seems many were hoping he would trip up on this aspect(Chelsea propaganda) and one who is actually enjoying the challenge, is good enough for me. Maybe I'm just glad to have someone on the helm that gives a ****.

His shopping list was not fulfilled so give the man the chance to build his team.

He seems to be making mistakes...however as is the case in life....he seems to be learning from them....tick

He seems to be giving youth a real chance in meaningful scenarios....tick

Seems to protect the club and players when tackling press conferences...tick

I suppose he hasn't won every match in a swashbuckling manner. I suppose he never got in Moutinhio/Willian...yeah this is his fault. I suppose he has made mistakes in his first 5 months of the job. I suppose individual errors are his fault..yeah let's sack him...last time I looked God wasn't available for the Spurs job.

I will back this man all the way unless he starts to bad mouth the fans...telling us that we are punching above our weight and are spoilt. Plus if he decides that the way forward is to sign the Nelsons and saha's of the world..the mere fact that he actually loves it when we score instead of slumping in his seat with a hornets nest in his mouth and to me looking a bit suspect thinking as soon as I get a better offer 'I'm off' is enough for me to embrace the new man and his thoughts.

3 trophies in almost 30 years and we behave spoilt...terrible.

We are up there...we are moving forward with our aims...and not settling for mediocrity as some want to think.

Ok making myself a cuppa.

 

[NSIS]

I would just reiterate my often stated position. I was not keen on his appointment, I would far rather have seen someone like Moyes in his place. However, like all long suffering Spurs fans, at the end of the day I want what's best for Spurs. If that happens to be AVB, then I will genuinely be delighted.
I have to say that, so far, he has done little to convince me that he is the man for Spurs. Yes, he's been short of resources due to injuries, and now Ade's pointless suspension. However, I have not been impressed with the way that he has handled the resources he has got at his disposal. Saturday was the first time we have seen him try anything "daring" even then he still stuck with Huddlestone. How many times he has got to let us down before AVB gets that particular message, I don't know.

Again, when we are back to full strength, that will be the time to make a proper judgement. I remain far from convinced at this point in time, however.

 

[Spurf]

As I have thought on many occasions with regard this topic, Spurf I usually end up nodding my head at your posts....and this one is the same. Your spot on with your analysis.

Lately I've been a bit jittery with the thought that AVB will be ousted out due to the intense pressure...vultures are circling....I can see it.

The guy has had 5 months and a team missing most of it's big players.

People keep on saying he is the next Ramos...however I just don't see the comparison apart from he is foreign aswell. With AVB despite some results not going as planned...I still see signs that we are in a good place. For me the fact that we have an enthusiastic manager..one who has the players on side as it seems many were hoping he would trip up on this aspect(Chelsea propaganda) and one who is actually enjoying the challenge, is good enough for me. Maybe I'm just glad to have someone on the helm that gives a ****.

His shopping list was not fulfilled so give the man the chance to build his team.

He seems to be making mistakes...however as is the case in life....he seems to be learning from them....tick

He seems to be giving youth a real chance in meaningful scenarios....tick

Seems to protect the club and players when tackling press conferences...tick

I suppose he hasn't won every match in a swashbuckling manner. I suppose he never got in Moutinhio/Willian...yeah this is his fault. I suppose he has made mistakes in his first 5 months of the job. I suppose individual errors are his fault..yeah let's sack him...last time I looked God wasn't available for the Spurs job.

I will back this man all the way unless he starts to bad mouth the fans...telling us that we are punching above our weight and are spoilt. Plus if he decides that the way forward is to sign the Nelsons and saha's of the world..the mere fact that he actually loves it when we score instead of slumping in his seat with a hornets nest in his mouth and to me looking a bit suspect thinking as soon as I get a better offer 'I'm off' is enough for me to embrace the new man and his thoughts.

3 trophies in almost 30 years and we behave spoilt...terrible.

We are up there...we are moving forward with our aims...and not settling for mediocrity as some want to think.

Ok making myself a cuppa.

I'll join you Spurlock. This a great post IMO because it captures the emotions that many of us feel. It's why I was truly with AVB after the Arsenal game when he expressed pride in the players and for the positives he expressed.

So much better than we are lucky to be up here punching above our weight. Bollocks to that.

 

[Spurf]

I don't think it's a question of being pro or anti AVB- it's far too soon to pass judgment on a young, inexperienced manager who will need time to find his feet. Anyone being fair to the bloke would feel he should be given time and the full backing of all concerned with the club.

If I were a Spurs fan my frustrations would be directed at Levy. Why get rid of an experienced manager, who knows his way around the PL and who assembled his team over four successful years in favour of a rookie who could be seen as having failed in his short appointment at a big club in the PL? It wasn't for footballing reasons. Perhaps that change had to be made, but surely a top class, experienced manager was needed for a top four team? Utd and Arsenal are the examples to follow. Consistency, continuity, certainty, experience counts for a lot.

Constant change has been the undoing of Spurs in the past. Wholesale changes to the manager, backroom staff, players etc was just what Spurs didn't need to carry on progressing. Spurs had had a relatively long period of stability. Most of the players had been signed or developed by Redknapp and had been in a settled team for two seasons. Some additional investment to improve the depth of the squad was all that was needed. I don't know if Modric and vdV would have still left, but if these were the only significant changes, they were manageable.

AVB may prove to be a very good manager, but it's unlikely that he can bring his own ideas, mould his team and get results to match the past few saesons on a consistent basis straightaway.

You have missed the point Luke but then you are not a Spurs fan. That's why you do not understand the frustration that some Spurs fans felt with Redknapp. On you go lording his plus points, we could all see that! It's not hard; Redknapp has an eye for a player and allows his favoured players to express themselves AND THAT'S IT!

I personally like teams that go out and express themselves rather than the overcomplicated 'modern' method of plans and dossiers and clip boards. So from that point of view I was pleased by Redknapp's approach, BUT THAT'S ALL.

Apart from that he was a big mouthed self regarding, disrespecter of players, who contradicted himself week by week in pursuit of his favourite goal. 'The advancement of Harry Redknapp'

Even on the football side his approach was limited and we had reached beyond his expectations. We should be happy with 4th because we had overachieved. Ok Mr. Redknapp we would like to over achieve some more so you are obviously not the man to take us there. Thanks and GOODBYE.

Good at man management! Eyewash! Tell that to Bent, to Dos Santos, to Bentley, to Pavluchenko, biggest load of bollocks I've heard on the Spurs pages.

Ok Luke happy now! once again you bring up this dead and departed topic.

 

[Spurf]

The point btw LUKE is that the OP was addressed to Spurs fans.

 

[Dier Hard]

I would just reiterate my often stated position. I was not keen on his appointment, I would far rather have seen someone like Moyes in his place. However, like all long suffering Spurs fans, at the end of the day I want what's best for Spurs. If that happens to be AVB, then I will genuinely be delighted.
I have to say that, so far, he has done little to convince me that he is the man for Spurs. Yes, he's been short of resources due to injuries, and now Ade's pointless suspension. However, I have not been impressed with the way that he has handled the resources he has got at his disposal. Saturday was the first time we have seen him try anything "daring" even then he still stuck with Huddlestone. How many times he has got to let us down before AVB gets that particular message, I don't know.

Again, when we are back to full strength, that will be the time to make a proper judgement. I remain far from convinced at this point in time, however.

You been copying my posts NSIS

Agree with all of that mate, Moyes too was my preferred choice, I hope AVB becomes the man to lead us forward but like you have been unimpressed with him so far. The injured players returning soon will really put his skills and management to the test as there will be no excuses if we still perform so poorly.

 

[Spurs61]

Why are we all so negative? If we don't knock AVB then we have a go at Levy instead. This is the man who appointed Saint Harry in the first place - stepping in early enough in the season to turn around a disastrous start (yes I know he appointed Ramos but at least he quickly recognzsed that mistake)

Let us just take it that Levy lost faith in Redknapp due to the England fiasco and he must have felt that Harry had taken us as high as he was going to. If that is what he believed then his job if he wanted further progress was to move on - and he did. It would have been easy to keep Harry and watch us maintain 4th/5th - good yes but surely we wanted more - we wanted 3rd 2nd or 1st in time.

I personally think standing still does not work so support the change. AVB would not have been my choice but I support him as our manager. I also keep pointing out that we are just 3 points - yes the home defeat to Wigan behind last year's equivalent matches. Not so bad for a new Manager - lots of injuries to key players and the departure of Modric and VDV.

I expected us to take perhaps a step back this season to move forward and would always be prepared for that if needs be - yes I hope we don't take a step back so let's wait till the end of the season and judge then

 

[No Kane No Gain]

I don't think it's a question of being pro or anti AVB- it's far too soon to pass judgment on a young, inexperienced manager who will need time to find his feet. Anyone being fair to the bloke would feel he should be given time and the full backing of all concerned with the club.

If I were a Spurs fan my frustrations would be directed at Levy. Why get rid of an experienced manager, who knows his way around the PL and who assembled his team over four successful years in favour of a rookie who could be seen as having failed in his short appointment at a big club in the PL? It wasn't for footballing reasons. Perhaps that change had to be made, but surely a top class, experienced manager was needed for a top four team? Utd and Arsenal are the examples to follow. Consistency, continuity, certainty, experience counts for a lot.

Constant change has been the undoing of Spurs in the past. Wholesale changes to the manager, backroom staff, players etc was just what Spurs didn't need to carry on progressing. Spurs had had a relatively long period of stability. Most of the players had been signed or developed by Redknapp and had been in a settled team for two seasons. Some additional investment to improve the depth of the squad was all that was needed. I don't know if Modric and vdV would have still left, but if these were the only significant changes, they were manageable.

AVB may prove to be a very good manager, but it's unlikely that he can bring his own ideas, mould his team and get results to match the past few saesons on a consistent basis straightaway.

Luke, as much as I welcome outside views I do wish you'd stop bringing up 'Arry as that's not what the thread was about. You say Levy could be criticised for sacking him but go on to accept that he may have had no choice. You also talk about continuity being key but how can we have that when he's waiting for the England job? If Hodgson ballsed up the Euros and lost a couple of qualifiers we'd be back where we were before with the speculation about him leaving. The idea, I think was that knowing Modric would be leaving they wanted the £30mill spent with players that a manager who could be here for the forseeable future would want and that wasn't 'Arry. I was in favour of offering 'Arry a new contract that essentially puts his England chances to bed but I'm not sure he would've even taken it and I understand the need to rebuild in a slightly different direction now.

We always struggled without Modric or with him playing out of position under 'Arry and AVB has already lost his replacement for as long if not longer than we didn't have Modric in the team and in position. Whilst he is learning I wouldn't call him a novice, he's a talent if anything and once we have our key piece of the jigsaw back it will be more fair to start judging our performances as a reflection on the manager.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

The hard thing for AVB is he is taking over a team that finished 4th from a manager that was sacked not because he was useless, but because he didn't get on with Levy.

Well, not exactly, no. He's taking over a club that finished 4th, but the team's been almost entirely changed.
This was Redknapp's first choice XI last season: Friedel; Walker, Kaboul, King, Assou-Ekotto; Lennon, Parker, Modric, Bale; van der Vaart; Adebayor.
King retired, Modric and van der Vaart were sold, Parker and Kaboul have missed the whole season so far and Assou-Ekotto and Adebayor have only played about 3 games.
He's had 3 of last year's outfield players available, the whole spine's been missing or has left and Villas-Boas is expected to match his predecessor's results, anyway.

 

[junction8spurs]

Very good post with excellent points.

AVB has come into our club and through no fault of his own lost 3 key players- Ledley, rafa and Modric.
Add in the injuries to key players all season and he's having to work without half of last seasons team.

The press, other fans and it seems a lot of our own fans want him to fail. I sincerely hope he is given time and gets the players in that he wants- not the mr levy wants.

Given that time I actually think he'll take us to the next level as a club.

There is no comparison between AVB and Ramos, he speaks English for a start!

 

[Roo]

Why are we all so negative? If we don't knock AVB then we have a go at Levy instead. This is the man who appointed Saint Harry in the first place - stepping in early enough in the season to turn around a disastrous start (yes I know he appointed Ramos but at least he quickly recognzsed that mistake)

Let us just take it that Levy lost faith in Redknapp due to the England fiasco and he must have felt that Harry had taken us as high as he was going to. If that is what he believed then his job if he wanted further progress was to move on - and he did. It would have been easy to keep Harry and watch us maintain 4th/5th - good yes but surely we wanted more - we wanted 3rd 2nd or 1st in time.

I personally think standing still does not work so support the change. AVB would not have been my choice but I support him as our manager. I also keep pointing out that we are just 3 points - yes the home defeat to Wigan behind last year's equivalent matches. Not so bad for a new Manager - lots of injuries to key players and the departure of Modric and VDV.

I expected us to take perhaps a step back this season to move forward and would always be prepared for that if needs be - yes I hope we don't take a step back so let's wait till the end of the season and judge then

good post, 61

I totally agree with your second paragraph and think it's a good way of summing things up.

The bit that baffles me, is the bit about "moving on and progressing". I know that it can't be done overnight, but i'm completely bemused as to why and how "progressing" is selling 2 of our best players and not making SURE that we've got them replaced, as well as other signings we needed. We took care of the King issue by signing Vertonghen a few weeks prior to the end of the window. - what a difference that made! he's been brilliant since signing. With Caulker coing back too, it was like 2 new signings and both have been fantastic for us. - a clear indication that if you've got your players in good time and can work with them, it makes a huge difference.

it was inevitable that Modric was leaving and same for VDV (but came about a bit later on). The rumours over VDV leaving still gave us plenty of time to sort something else out, even if it wasn't official. - you can still bet the club knew he wanted to move back to be with his wife.
RM aren't a club to piss about. they clearly wanted LM and that was obvious for all to see for weeks and weeks. it just amazes me that Dembele was left until 3 days before the end, when the sale of LM was going to happen. And Rafa wasn't replaced at all to be honest. Oh, and we let Kane go out on loan leaving us with 2 strikers.

How is this an organised plan to "progress" and push on from 4/5th place finishes?

IMO, its contradictory to what we're trying to achieve and we completely shot ourselves in the foot. I just don't get it.