Don't know about Lewis and Fernando, but I just find it difficult to take Vettel seriously as a racing driver: the finger, the woo-hoo noises "that's what I'm talking about", the giving his Red Bull girl's names. Isn't it time he grew up?
Are Seb and Lewis+Alonso real enemies now?
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I like the finger and his crazy frog antics, F1 last time I checked isn't meant to be a humbling sport. Lewis has his twitter problems and Alonso can't seem to keep to 1 woman so I don't think Seb is that bad with his attitude.
I do not think that Alonso and Lewis are trying to take digs at Vettel when they compliment each other. It's just because they have shared the same car and pushed each other to the max as team mates, they both know that neither has arguably had a teammate who has pushed them as much as they did in 2007
Quite simply Lewis and Fernando do not know how 'good' Seb really is in comparison to them as they have never competed against Seb with equal machinery so being F1 drivers with a slight ego they are unlikely to give Seb the same sort of praise. Which is why i really want Vettel to move to Ferrari in 2014!
Quite simply Lewis and Fernando do not know how 'good' Seb really is in comparison to them as they have never competed against Seb with equal machinery so being F1 drivers with a slight ego they are unlikely to give Seb the same sort of praise. Which is why i really want Vettel to move to Ferrari in 2014!
I can only see that happening if it's like the Red Bull of '11.
If it's like the Ferrari of late, or one which isnt dominant, Alonso will beat him.
Not that it will ever happen, but i wouldn't think Alonso could beat Seb in quali and therefore not in races too, the most time anyways.
It would be tight in any car Seb Vs Alonso, people forget how limited the upgrades were on the RB8 this year as they had no clue which direction to go....hole or no hole? B-spec exhaust or G-Spec exhaust?
Ferrari got better during the first half while the RB8 kept the same or went backwards at times with minimal upgrades, with the FIA and media bias of "loopholes" setting them back by banning anything questionable but somehow other teams like McLaren got away with rotating wings for months and Mercedes DDRS being kept until next season.
It's fair to say the RB8 was not that good of a car, maybe not a complete dog since at times it was worse than the Ferrari (Spain, Spa, Monza) sometimes equal in performance, (Monaco, Silverstone, Hockenheim, Canada) and clearly better than Ferrari at others (Australia, Bahrain, Hungary, Valencia) Considering how much performance and knowledge of the car as a whole lost without the EBD, everybody else should of been starting with more advantages since they focused on other avenues other than the EBD the previous year.
Seb said at he mid point they were looking at 5th-6th (at best) until Valencia came around when they were getting closer to actually finding something to work around with, as he felt he was fighting with Sauber, Williams and Lotus on a good day in the early stages up until Bahrain.
Last time somebody struggled with the new regulations to the degree of what Red Bull endured this year were McLaren in 09 when the car was said to be a dog as it was a mess in comparison to last seasons car. It took them half a season to sort out and by "surprise" Lewis' performances skyrocketed the second half when a whole new car was rolled out at Germany.
People are underestimating how bad the RB8 was and how well Webber and Seb actually did in the early stages because the car was a mess. Newey (Mr unfuckable) was actually messing around with no actual gains for months on end that it was frustrating while teams like Ferrari, Lotus and McLaren were getting major upgrades left, right and centre and overtaking RBR in performance. Until Singapore Newey and the rest of his crew did a rubbish job with developing the car with compared to previous seasons and it has surprised me how long it has taken them to finally get to grips with car consistency over all tracks rather than just keep going up and down each weekend with being at the front one day, the next fighting for 4th place at best.
Yeah the race pace was decent, but qualifying and straight line speed was shocking and inconsistant.
Ferrari got better during the first half while the RB8 kept the same or went backwards at times with minimal upgrades, with the FIA and media bias of "loopholes" setting them back by banning anything questionable but somehow other teams like McLaren got away with rotating wings for months and Mercedes DDRS being kept until next season.
It's fair to say the RB8 was not that good of a car, maybe not a complete dog since at times it was worse than the Ferrari (Spain, Spa, Monza) sometimes equal in performance, (Monaco, Silverstone, Hockenheim, Canada) and clearly better than Ferrari at others (Australia, Bahrain, Hungary, Valencia) Considering how much performance and knowledge of the car as a whole lost without the EBD, everybody else should of been starting with more advantages since they focused on other avenues other than the EBD the previous year.
Seb said at he mid point they were looking at 5th-6th (at best) until Valencia came around when they were getting closer to actually finding something to work around with, as he felt he was fighting with Sauber, Williams and Lotus on a good day in the early stages up until Bahrain.
Last time somebody struggled with the new regulations to the degree of what Red Bull endured this year were McLaren in 09 when the car was said to be a dog as it was a mess in comparison to last seasons car. It took them half a season to sort out and by "surprise" Lewis' performances skyrocketed the second half when a whole new car was rolled out at Germany.
People are underestimating how bad the RB8 was and how well Webber and Seb actually did in the early stages because the car was a mess. Newey (Mr unfuckable) was actually messing around with no actual gains for months on end that it was frustrating while teams like Ferrari, Lotus and McLaren were getting major upgrades left, right and centre and overtaking RBR in performance. Until Singapore Newey and the rest of his crew did a rubbish job with developing the car with compared to previous seasons and it has surprised me how long it has taken them to finally get to grips with car consistency over all tracks rather than just keep going up and down each weekend with being at the front one day, the next fighting for 4th place at best.
Yeah the race pace was decent, but qualifying and straight line speed was shocking and inconsistant.
I would say it would be tighter than Lewis and Jenson, Alonso's only problem is that Seb will become obsessed in beating him like he does with Mark.
Seb might hate losing but it gives him more desire to do better, and there's nobody on the grid that works harder than Seb and that isn't a fanboy saying, he looks at everything!
Silver, pre-singapore the RB8 was on average the 2nd best car. A car doesn't take 4 poles if it's an average car.
And you mention up and down performances by the car; what team hasn't had up and down performances this year.
McLaren have had races where they look dominant then the next they are nowhere. Mercedes had the best car in Monaco and were nowhere in Canada. At worst the Red Bull car was 4th or 5th.
And you mention up and down performances by the car; what team hasn't had up and down performances this year.
McLaren have had races where they look dominant then the next they are nowhere. Mercedes had the best car in Monaco and were nowhere in Canada. At worst the Red Bull car was 4th or 5th.
3 poles (Bahrain, Valencia, Canada)
And I think on average 2nd best is being kind, McLaren and Lotus had better cars for most of that period in the first half of the season. Just because Jenson was lost at sea with the tyres and Grosjean kept crashing out on the first lap and massa was just plain crap doesn't prove any kind of valid car performance.
Just because Seb and Mark did a better job as a (duo) than all the other teams doesn't mean the car was better than it was, that's an unfair assessment in my opinion. Massa, Button and Grosjean made their cars look worse than they actually did while compared to their team mates that showed they could be competitive so that's a driver issue not a car issue.
strange, becuase whenever team orders have been given at RBR SV has obeyed them and MW ignored them, it strikes me that it's the 'number 2' that is more obsessed.
In my opinion Alonso and Lewis are both very aware of their legacies in the sport, and fear Vettel will be statistically greater than both of them when they've all retired given what he's already achieved. Even if Alonso wins this year I think Vettel will retire with more titles because he'll probably have five or six years in the sport after Alonso retires. Both Alonso and Hamilton have been quoted as saying the other is the only one who can win in a car that's not the best, what better way of making yourself look good than saying the guy you drew with as teammates is the best in the sport? I'm not really sure how Alonso rates Vettel, but I think Hamilton is convinced he's a second rate driver in by far the best car and hates it. Alonso must be pretty pissed off as well, he probably thought he was set for an era of dominance in 2006 after toppling Schumacher, but he hasn't won a title since Vettel and Hamilton arrived in F1 the following season. I think Hamilton and Alonso always respected each other, but they probably empathise with the other over a shared hatred of Vettel's dominance. I don't think Vettel hates the other two, not while he's winning at least.
I'm quite sure they hate the fact that he's winning and they are not, but I'm not sure that extends to them hating him as a person though.
In a way I agree with you, Seb does look more like a racer than a qualifier this year in particular. I think when he can close down the car rather than lose ground he can carve through that field like a mudda fudda! I'm glad I went to Spa to see that this year as COME ON! that was bloody class around the bus stop to the degree of Alonso was at around Valencia.
They need to rename that section in Seb's name since he was the bloody king, ok Lewis and Alonso weren't there but COME ON! that was a fantastic fightback, and a 1 stop to boot! When he has a car that can at least keep up on the straights he is a damn good overtaker that any great would nod in respect for, he might not be a Kobayashi, Lewis or Perez but rather a slightly more aggressive version of Kimi and he can nail it anywhere on track.
If anything I'm starting to feel Seb can hack it better through the field better than Lewis now, only the likes of Alonso and Kimi are slightly better than that since they have a lot more experience in F1 than Seb. But yeah Seb has been one of the best overtakers this year while Lewis has been very quiet compared with previous years though it might have to do with that the McLaren has mostly been a better qualifier.
I find myself agreeing with Silver on a point *shock horror* in that Vettel has had a number of classy passes this season. Those should finally close the lid on the "Vettel can't pass" myth.
Though I do disagree that Hamilton has dropped down the pecking order when it comes to passing. If all things were equal, I'd still have ny money on him to make the crucial pass.
Though I do disagree that Hamilton has dropped down the pecking order when it comes to passing. If all things were equal, I'd still have ny money on him to make the crucial pass.
In the case of Vettel I think we have seen this season that he is more than capable of passing guys and moving up through the field when he doesn't start from the front so I think we can finally be done with that myth. I still think that his raw pace in qualifying is still his strongest asset and might be just a notch above anyone else on the grid. You don't win 2 WDC's by being slow, but I do wonder how well he would do given equal machinery in a team alongside either Alonso or Hamilton. I still have my doubts there whether he is really better than the either of them. I personally feel like Alonso would have the measure of him if they were both in the Ferrari, but I'm an Alonso fan so I might be slightly biased. However, like I already stated, he is clearly no slouch given his accomplishments, and I don't buy into the second rate driver crap.
Yup Zero... he's certainly not a second rate driver. If he were he'd have been sent packing by RBR a long time ago.
Had Vettel been in the same car as Alonso this year, I personally think he may have struggled to keep up. That's simply because I feel that Alonso is on the top of his game right now. He's been the man of the season for me.
I do wish Hamilton had not been plagued with such bad luck though. I think he could have been at the sharp end if not... but it's motor racing and **** happens.
Had Vettel been in the same car as Alonso this year, I personally think he may have struggled to keep up. That's simply because I feel that Alonso is on the top of his game right now. He's been the man of the season for me.
I do wish Hamilton had not been plagued with such bad luck though. I think he could have been at the sharp end if not... but it's motor racing and **** happens.
Yup Zero... he's certainly not a second rate driver. If he were he'd have been sent packing by RBR a long time ago.
Had Vettel been in the same car as Alonso this year, I personally think he may have struggled to keep up. That's simply because I feel that Alonso is on the top of his game right now. He's been the man of the season for me.
I do wish Hamilton had not been plagued with such bad luck though. I think he could have been at the sharp end if not... but it's motor racing and **** happens.
Reminds me of a quote off Star Trek: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose."
But my personal favorite: "Engage!"
SilverArrow:3642741 said:
Them's the breaks though... A title needs skill, a decent car and an ounce of luck in equal measure Take one ingredient out and it flops.
I should add that I think Hamilton had the car to be in with a shout given the ping-pong nature of the season... I just think he's lacked the luck.