Formations (sorry Supers)

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ncfcwonky

ncfcwonky

Active Member
Jan 30, 2011
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Naaaarfolk
First apologies to Supers, I know formations are being discussed on the 'Dissecting THAT' forum but it got a bit confusing and I haven't really had time to work it out as I have had dissertation research to do (it's very boring, if only I could do 10,000 words on Norwich City). But a it is a great thread.

Also, sorry for rambling and sorry if I don't make any sense.





Through the glaze of medical negligence cases I have been thinking about the need of a holding midfielder and if so, should it be Fox and/or Tettey.

I have seen very little of Tettey (as a sub against Liverpool only) so I can't say too much about him. But in that game I felt we were missing someone between the defenders and midfielders. Despite Liverpool dominating by the time he came on he showed why he was needed. Not allowing the Liverpool attackers as much of the ball as they wanted which gave the attacking minded midfielders more freedom - such as Howson, Hoolahan and Snodgrass

Fox can also play this role but as we all know he is the best passer of the ball at the club so he is at his best when Norwich have possession of the ball..

When we have played the diamond formation in the past this allowed us a bit of width while Hoolahan could contribute to the attack and Fox was essentially box-to-box. Last season we didn't play this formation too often but under Lambert's approach it was a case of outscoring the opposition so Fox's passing ability was more important to the style of play than his ability to defend.

I would say that Fox is our Iniesta and Tettey is our Yaya Toure; clearly neither is going to play for Barcelona like their counterparts but that is how I feel they play.

Looking at how Liverpool played at the weekend the two holding midfielders were Sahin (their Yaya Toure) and Allen (their Iniesta). They showed why they were important to the team on Saturday with Sahin breaking up our play and Allen helping the attack. Could have Fox and Tettey been able to counter this?

Thinking about Fox and Tettey I would be inclined to have them both starting in the holding role with three attacking midfielders in front of them (Snodgrass, Howson, Hoolahan, Pilkington or E Bennett).

But then we would have the issue of one attacker up front. Of Jackson, Holt and Morison I am unsure which one I would want to start up front. Jackson is a very fast player and worked very hard at the weekend (the best Norwich player on the pitch in the first half in my opinion) but I feel he needs a goal or two before we can rely on him up front on his own. Also he doesn't quite have the strength of Holt and Morison. Holt and Morison have both got off the mark but it's hard to tell if the goals will start flooding in now. Morison has more experience of being upfront on his own but I feel that if Fox and Tettey are playing as holding midfielders this would help the three other midfielders to provide the lone striker with more support.
 
no need to apologise wonky! better to have a devoted tactics thread <ok>

i've got to the stage now where i fully believe 4-5-1 is the right way forward. two holding players or one, depending on opposition. that doesn't mean we can't play 4-4-2 or any other formation for that matter ever again - i just want us to get a settled team in a relatively settled formation so that everyone knows their job and 4-5-1 gives us a solid base, the best balance between defence and attack, fluidity going forward and counter attacking options to build from. we need to keep the ball better and five in midfield is the best way to do that, especially with a holding player so that howson doesn't have to start every move from the edge of his own bloody box.

what i definitely want is david fox playing from the start! he makes us tick. i think him and tettey (based on the little i have seen so far) together could work - there would be a natural balance between them and tettey would have the capacity to leave his holding role and bomb box to box. i'd play any of howson, hoolahan or butterfield, maybe even surman behind a striker and give them a fairly free role where they aren't relied on to be disciplined defensively but are free to be creative - what they are good at! width is a must too.
 
just to add, i think jackson plays quite well when he drops into the hole. would rather have little wesley there but i suppose its an option and even elliott bennett has done well there - swansea away last year, when he was tucked behind holt who was on his own up front.
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
no need to apologise wonky! better to have a devoted tactics thread <ok>

i've got to the stage now where i fully believe 4-5-1 is the right way forward. two holding players or one, depending on opposition. that doesn't mean we can't play 4-4-2 or any other formation for that matter ever again - i just want us to get a settled team in a relatively settled formation so that everyone knows their job and 4-5-1 gives us a solid base, the best balance between defence and attack, fluidity going forward and counter attacking options to build from. we need to keep the ball better and five in midfield is the best way to do that, especially with a holding player so that howson doesn't have to start every move from the edge of his own bloody box.

what i definitely want is david fox playing from the start! he makes us tick. i think him and tettey (based on the little i have seen so far) together could work - there would be a natural balance between them and tettey would have the capacity to leave his holding role and bomb box to box. i'd play any of howson, hoolahan or butterfield, maybe even surman behind a striker and give them a fairly free role where they aren't relied on to be disciplined defensively but are free to be creative - what they are good at! width is a must too.
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Bugger, forgot about Butterfield but great minds and all that! <ok>
 
Whatever the formation we've got to get our best players into the team and fit the formation around them. In my eyes our best midfielder last year was fox, so he should be the first name down and build around him. If that means a flat 4-4-2 with him and howson maybe then that works. If he works with Tettey in 4-2-3-1 that also works for me. I think that the 4-5-1/4-2-3-1 is the way to go at the beginning of games and if we're still chasing mix it up and forfeit a holding player for a striker or extra attacking midfielder.
 
one other thing to add, i thought morison did well 2nd half alongside holt at the weekend but i'm not overly keen on starting the pair up front. great to have one or the other to throw on last twenty though.
 
I think it's ok to play Holt & Morison together if we play with Pilks & Beno pinging crosses in, if not it all looks very one dimensional.
I still think we play better with a mix of strikers if we play 442.
 
I like the midfield diamond with Holt and Maybe Morison upfront, with the full backs pushing forward to support the wingers and then getting crosses in to Holt/Morison.

Only problem is it can leave you exposed down the wings if you give the ball away in the wrong position against good opposition. I think we should use it against teams that have players that are of similar quality to ours like Reading and Southampton. Even though it can put pressure on the back 4, especially the centre backs the idea is to keep the ball in the opponents half and have someone (fox/Tettey) at the base of the diamond that can get the ball wide and control midfield. Fox was awesome at this last season and in the Championship, you have to have great positional sense and spot on passing to pull it off.

Also, need plenty of pace on the wings and fullback positions, see Garrido and Bennet.
 
BillyNCFC said:
Whatever the formation we've got to get our best players into the team and fit the formation around them. In my eyes our best midfielder last year was fox, so he should be the first name down and build around him. If that means a flat 4-4-2 with him and howson maybe then that works. If he works with Tettey in 4-2-3-1 that also works for me. I think that the 4-5-1/4-2-3-1 is the way to go at the beginning of games and if we're still chasing mix it up and forfeit a holding player for a striker or extra attacking midfielder.
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If someone were to ask me to name "our best players", I'd be struggling, apart maybe from Ruddy and, from what we've seen of them so far, Bassong and Garrido. I might have a go at "ordering" the rest of the CBs; right back is an unanswered question until we've seen Whittaker. Of the others I would say "best at doing what, or in what role?". In the old days you had a goalie, a left back and right back, a centre half, left half and right half, a left winger, inside left, centre forward, inside right and right winger. You had a first eleven, each of whom was "the best" in their position, and (if you were lucky), a reserve team. If your first team centre forward got injured, your reserve centre forward came in until he had recovered. Simple. It's not like that any more. For one thing, whereas in the old days your opponents were set up just like you, that's far from the case nowadays. Each team you come across poses different questions. So I'm uncomfortable with calls for a settled starting eleven in a formation which suits those particular players. What one might aim at is the best eleven for a given formation, but even then one would be in danger of being too rigid on the day. <ok>
 
Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed said:
one other thing to add, i thought morison did well 2nd half alongside holt at the weekend but i'm not overly keen on starting the pair up front. great to have one or the other to throw on last twenty though.
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Do you know what?? I agree with that, I thought he had a really good game considering!

Blimey, I think I need a lie-down after that!! :emoticon-0113-sleep
 
I wouldn't mind a flat 4-4-2 but I feel this formation requires at least one defensive midfielder. Four attacking minded midfielders wouldn't help the defence. I don't think Howson in a flat four works. Instead I would have Fox, Tettey or Johnson in there.
 
How about this formation (something different to think about) or is it a little too attacking minded!!!

Ruddy
Martin Bassong Garrido
Tettey Fox
Bennett Johnson Pilkington
Snodgrass
Holt

If some of our defenders are not cutting it, remove them from the equation entirely. We remove a forward and put in an attacking midfielder to play with 1 up front, so why not remove a defender and replace with a defensive midfielder.

Fox can take the role of play maker, whilst Tettey tidies up. Johnson can sit back to help out Tettey as Fox moves forward more, or even just switch Fox and Johnson round. Bennett, Pilks Snodders and Holt should be capable of creating and scoring plenty. Is this just a ludicrous idea, or is worth a go???
 
swindonyellow said:
How about this formation (something different to think about) or is it a little too attacking minded!!!
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I started to post a reply swindon, but it is turning into a full length essay <yikes>. And I'm still in a muddle as to what I'm trying to say. Maybe someone else can do better! <ok>
 
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