Rival watch
- Thread starter Spurlock
- Start date
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Fair comment about the listing PS, however assuming ENIC were the majority shareholders, couldn't they refuse to sell their shares and thus block any takeover. I'm no stock market guru, so may be talking rubbish. Also, if they were majority shareholders there may have been other ways they could have blocked the bid.
I agree we have made progress compared to twelve years ago, and credit to ENIC for that, but as you know I, and others, are fed up with the current situation.
And even if we was breaking even one year, that doesn't tell the whole story as ENIC are a business, run by business men, successful business men, they aren't here for a party, and to play around with a football club.
Why do people go into Business? to make money, no other reason.
It is in ENICS best interest for spurs to be a "success" but understand what they deem as "success" isn't what all our fans class as "success".
Ultimately I believe ENIC purchased this club with the aim of building up the club, improving the facilities and selling for a profit, thats just my view and its not said in any anger towards ENIC, more said with realism.
But its important to understand why people buy football clubs.
Take man utd for example, they are in debt, the owners are still spending huge amounts, why? because when it comes down to it all, they will make a profit, why else would they be there.
So I can understand both views on this but as a spurs fan its difficult to accept the limitations and I believe if we had owners that took a greater risk, we would be in a much stronger position both on the field and in a financial sense.
Why do people go into Business? to make money, no other reason.
It is in ENICS best interest for spurs to be a "success" but understand what they deem as "success" isn't what all our fans class as "success".
Ultimately I believe ENIC purchased this club with the aim of building up the club, improving the facilities and selling for a profit, thats just my view and its not said in any anger towards ENIC, more said with realism.
But its important to understand why people buy football clubs.
Take man utd for example, they are in debt, the owners are still spending huge amounts, why? because when it comes down to it all, they will make a profit, why else would they be there.
So I can understand both views on this but as a spurs fan its difficult to accept the limitations and I believe if we had owners that took a greater risk, we would be in a much stronger position both on the field and in a financial sense.
Regarding the profits etc, the accounts are openly available. However, you have to know far more about accounts than I do to accurately assess them.
My limited knowledge is that we pretty much break even, over any given 2-3 year period, but partly the reason for that is that we have spent a lot on property, ie training ground and NDP, over the past five years or so.
This means that we have a huge amount of assets compared to liabilities.
Now this makes us a good target for takeover bids, however, if our price is high, which you would expect from ENIC, who will then buy us?
My guess is that ENIC would want at least £350m for us, having put around £120m into the club. Thus making a huge profit, effectively out of us fans, who through gate receipts, TV subscriptions, shirt purchases, etc have provided the bulk of the billion pounds plus that have flowed into THFC during the past 11.5 years.
Now fair play to ENIC for making us asset rich, but remember it's basically football fans that have funded that, not their company.
I too, incidentally don't harbour ill-will to ENIC, they are what they are. I just want them to spend more or sell up at a reasonable price, if they can't do that. If they can't/won't do either, I want them to act smarter in the transfer market, so we are spared the embarrassment of having just one unsuitable striker for the start of a Prem season.
Huge Disclaimer - a load of what I've written might be financial nonsense, but please explain why it is nicely, if it is rubbish. I just want to know the truth, that's all, a far as anyone outside the owners can know the truth of the financial matters we're discussing.
My limited knowledge is that we pretty much break even, over any given 2-3 year period, but partly the reason for that is that we have spent a lot on property, ie training ground and NDP, over the past five years or so.
This means that we have a huge amount of assets compared to liabilities.
Now this makes us a good target for takeover bids, however, if our price is high, which you would expect from ENIC, who will then buy us?
My guess is that ENIC would want at least £350m for us, having put around £120m into the club. Thus making a huge profit, effectively out of us fans, who through gate receipts, TV subscriptions, shirt purchases, etc have provided the bulk of the billion pounds plus that have flowed into THFC during the past 11.5 years.
Now fair play to ENIC for making us asset rich, but remember it's basically football fans that have funded that, not their company.
I too, incidentally don't harbour ill-will to ENIC, they are what they are. I just want them to spend more or sell up at a reasonable price, if they can't do that. If they can't/won't do either, I want them to act smarter in the transfer market, so we are spared the embarrassment of having just one unsuitable striker for the start of a Prem season.
Huge Disclaimer - a load of what I've written might be financial nonsense, but please explain why it is nicely, if it is rubbish. I just want to know the truth, that's all, a far as anyone outside the owners can know the truth of the financial matters we're discussing.
Okay, then. Two gems in a stable of donkeys
Despite RVP leaving we haven't had a better group since the 2007/2008 season when we could have easily won the league.
In fact if you'd give me the whole Spurs squad for free, only Bale and Assou-Ekotto would get any game time. (the latter on the account of our LB's being pretty ****)
Oh and Parker is overrated by people who have a man-crush on him.
Despite RVP leaving we haven't had a better group since the 2007/2008 season when we could have easily won the league.
In fact if you'd give me the whole Spurs squad for free, only Bale and Assou-Ekotto would get any game time. (the latter on the account of our LB's being pretty ****)
Oh and Parker is overrated by people who have a man-crush on him.
Swap Kaboul for Assou Ekotto and I'd agree.
I also feel our squad is the best it's been since we won the Double
Despite RVP leaving we haven't had a better group since the 2007/2008 season when we could have easily won the league.
In fact if you'd give me the whole Spurs squad for free, only Bale and Assou-Ekotto would get any game time. (the latter on the account of our LB's being pretty ****)
Oh and Parker is overrated by people who have a man-crush on him.
Modric, Kaboul, Lennon and Sandro/Parker would moonwalk into your team too. Plus Friedel's far more reliable than Szczesny and since we're talking about game time Walker and any of our centre backs could've started in your team yesterday.
H
Hoddle is a god
Guest
With what AFC are going to be left with when Song goes, they'll be thankful if we gave them Bentley and Jenas.
Sandro would probably. Lennon wouldn't as much as I rate him. Parker for sure wouldn't get near the Arsenal team or any other team in the top 6. Is Modric still with you lot?
YV I think you are grossly underestimating Arsenal. As a neutral who hates both I personally believe Arsenal's squad (assuming Modric has left) is a step up from yours and given current management I don't see that changing.
Modric - didn't consider him as your player
Kaboul - nope
Lennon - poor man's Walcott (and I don't even rate him that much)
Sandro/Parker - rotation possibly.
I think the only Arsenal contingent Spurs could use would be your tea ladies and your car park attendants!
You have this about right GH10
The most recent accounts are those for year ending 30 June 2011, which includes the Champions league season.
Revenues were £163m but that includes more than £30m from the CL.
Operating expenses were £131m which included £91m for staff costs, the vast majority of which will be players salaries. This is much less than Arsenal (who themselves are well behind City, United and Chelsea).
We treat players as assets and write off their transfer fees over the life of their contracts. On this basis we had a cost of £40m but made a profit of £8m on sales, so net costs of £32m. So to quite a good approximation we broke even including transfer fees.
Given that we are not in the CL last year or this our revenues will be down, but I doubt our costs will be. But I do think we will make money on player trading this year. So I still think we are about breaking even provided we only spend about £30m in transfer fees. Vert, Sig and hopefully Ade will soak that up but we can afford to spend the Modric fee too.
Given these numbers I really think we ought to be sixth best in England, but we are outperforming that because we've brought pretty well on average and have not overpaid wages like the ones above us. ENIC actually think they are doing pretty well "Ten years ago we set out to create a First Team squad that could compete for the highest honours both domestically and in Europe, to deliver a new Training Centre and an increased capacity stadium. I am delighted to report on the substantial progress we have made in all these areas."
We generated cash of ~£60m of which ~£25m was invested in the training centre, ~£8m was used to pay back loans and £27m (net) was spent on transfers. Net debt was £56m and net assets were £80m. So if we sell Modric for £4m less and buy Ade for £4m more (as some on here think is a no-brainer 'to get our business done quicker') we've destroyed 10% of the value of the Club!
It is indeed unrealistic for Levy to expect top four and above - but Audere est Facere!
Of course your squad is much better than ours - that's why you got SO many more points than us last season.....oh
Parker's a good player whether you rate him or are still hung up that he didn't make it at Chelsea, same with AVB. This is all irrelevant though because player comparisons between rival clubs mean squat.
But they sold their best two players from last season and hey presto they're a better team
Not at all.
At a certain level Parker is decent but at the top level he is nowhere near good enough. To suggest he would "moonwalk" into the Arsenal side is ridiculous IMO although I think you have a fair case for Sandro and a couple of other players you listed
From your team from last season Modric and Ade would possibly make it into our first 11 too, if Wenger was willing to play 4-4-2.
It was a bit tongue in cheek but Arsenal don't have any midfielders with the defensive discipline and workrate Parker has. You rate Mikel over Parker so clearly we don't watch the same players.
Hey here's something that's guarunteed to unite Tottenham, Arsenal and Chelsea fans, it's a United fan being a prat