Deeney jailed

[babyhornetdan]

Im confused. Can you explain that one to me Theo??

Because WFC gave MK a contract, an error of judgement if you take account of the string of convictions and the nature of the offences you list, that in itself is not a reason for offering Deeney a contract because his offences are as far as we know fewer in number. It is not a matter of whether one is worse than the other, rather whether either of them should be considered employable by WFC.[/QUOTE]

I think it is. A precedent was set when we signed Marlon King, knowing his previous record. I also remember Boothroyd saying something about this being a second chance for King. People are saying that it will ruin the family club reputation, but surely having King on the books would have done that for us.

My point is that those who are calling for Deeney to be sacked are hypocrites. They cannot cheer for a criminal who is 5Xs worse than Deeney, but then call for Deeney to be sacked.

 

[northofwatfordpete]

BHD do not assume that everyone at Watford was happy with having Marlon King in the squad and I imagine that the same fans will be more than uncomfortable if Deeney returns to the team in 2013. If you aim a kick at someones head while they are lying on the ground then you are intentionally trying to seriously injure the person. This was not self defence but gratuitous violence and Deeney and the lad in question are both very lucky that he survived the ordeal. It could have been much much worse. If the lad had lost his life or suffered brain injuries, would you still be calling for Deeney to be returned to the fold?

 

[yorkshirehornet]

I realise what my caution has been abou......t which is the mob mentality when supporters make sweeeping statements regarding the lives of others....... I am not saying we are doing that here... but i am wary of us being judge and jury over the minutiae of the lives of others...

Yes a lot of factors to consider... not least of which is his value to us....

 

[Al the Hornet]

Just spotted this on Newsnow: http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/584413574?-276

 

[babyhornetdan]

BHD do not assume that everyone at Watford was happy with having Marlon King in the squad and I imagine that the same fans will be more than uncomfortable if Deeney returns to the team in 2013. If you aim a kick at someones head while they are lying on the ground then you are intentionally trying to seriously injure the person. This was not self defence but gratuitous violence and Deeney and the lad in question are both very lucky that he survived the ordeal. It could have been much much worse. If the lad had lost his life or suffered brain injuries, would you still be calling for Deeney to be returned to the fold?

Ok, maybe there were a few who were uncomfortable with having him in the squad, but i know that most (a vast majority) would chant his name. I also submit that he was a much worse criminal than Deeney. I cannot condone his actions and will not say that we should forget it and that it was self-defence. I just submit that he did it as a split second reaction to seeing his brother involved.

I think i would be saying that is it had been worse. But i dont know. As things stand i think he should be offered the chance to come back and show that he is sorry for what he did.

 

[hornethologist a.k.a. theo]

Because WFC gave MK a contract, an error of judgement if you take account of the string of convictions and the nature of the offences you list, that in itself is not a reason for offering Deeney a contract because his offences are as far as we know fewer in number. It is not a matter of whether one is worse than the other, rather whether either of them should be considered employable by WFC.

I think it is. A precedent was set when we signed Marlon King, knowing his previous record. I also remember Boothroyd saying something about this being a second chance for King. People are saying that it will ruin the family club reputation, but surely having King on the books would have done that for us.

My point is that those who are calling for Deeney to be sacked are hypocrites. They cannot cheer for a criminal who is 5Xs worse than Deeney, but then call for Deeney to be sacked.[/QUOTE]

You have a poor understanding of what a hypocrite is. I may find Deeney's crime abhorrent without being hypocritical and I would have felt the same about MK. This does not signify that I have contradicted any belief I have previously held or hold now. Be careful of the words you choose. I try to be restrained when I read some of the views you appear to hold.

 

[babyhornetdan]

I think it is. A precedent was set when we signed Marlon King, knowing his previous record. I also remember Boothroyd saying something about this being a second chance for King. People are saying that it will ruin the family club reputation, but surely having King on the books would have done that for us.

My point is that those who are calling for Deeney to be sacked are hypocrites. They cannot cheer for a criminal who is 5Xs worse than Deeney, but then call for Deeney to be sacked.

You have a poor understanding of what a hypocrite is. I may find Deeney's crime abhorrent without being hypocritical and I would have felt the same about MK. This does not signify that I have contradicted any belief I have previously held or hold now. Be careful of the words you choose. I try to be restrained when I read some of the views you appear to hold.[/QUOTE]

I am saying that it is hypocritical to chant Kings name, yet call for Deeney's head. If you are not one of the people doing that then i apologise Theo. But there are people on here who would have chanted his name and possibly even voted for him in the Player of the season award. No-one can deny that the offences King committed were more in number and possibly even worse (beating a woman who was defenseless) than what Troy has done.

As for having King on the books, i dont think it did ruin our reputation. In 2008 WFC won the Community Club of the Year Award. We also won the Football League Family Excellence award for this season. So we are clearly seen as a family club and having King as a player has not harmed us in any way.

So if we can have a scum-bag who beats women and ignores the law, but has shown that he is apparently sorry for his crimes and had repented then why should Troy Deeney not get the same chance??

Having spoken to him several times (i dont claim to know him) and seen the look in his eye when he is holding little Elis, i dont think he will want to be away from him again. Being separated from his family will be more of a punishment than the prison sentence itself IMO. You can see that in his tweets about his father, and how he acted when he was taken down. I honestly believe that he would not do it again.

 

[Yellowvoice]

In my humble opinion Deeney MUST be sacked because it sets the standard for our club and every one else's....yes, he is a valuable player but TBH I feel that the lack of other good (ish) goalscorers for Watford last season made Deeney look good when in actual fact he is just average. I am absolutely certain that another club will come in for him when he is out but, remember that old proverb of a leopard does not change his spots and M. King proved that right.......lets get shot of him and move on, it looks like we'll be getting a bucket load of new players anyway!

 

[LuxWFC]

The difference between King and Deeney...... is that King wasn't sent to jail whilst playing for Watford. Your past is your past..... at the moment Deeney is a criminal. King is a former criminal, or at least that's what he can claim.....

For us, keeping Deeney brings across a very different view to if a club were to offer him a second chance after his sentence.

 

[babyhornetdan]

The difference between King and Deeney...... is that King wasn't sent to jail whilst playing for Watford. Your past is your past..... at the moment Deeney is a criminal. King is a former criminal, or at least that's what he can claim.....

For us, keeping Deeney brings across a very different view to if a club were to offer him a second chance after his sentence.

But King had just been released from prison. And he had been convicted before too. So when he signed he was a convicted criminal, convicted multiple times of several different crimes. Yet that had no impact on the image of the club and he was a fan favourite and even won player of the year.

If prison rehabilitates a person then what is wrong with us punishing him internally and making it known that we will not condone it? If Joey Barton, King, Darius Henderson and many more players can fight (on the pitch in Barton's case) and still play, why should we kick Deeney to the curb?

 

[aberdeenhornet]

It really depends on him and the truth about the situation. We're all too far from it and too ignorant of the facts to judge. The coaches and players know him better and should know his true character, access to the video tapes and transcripts puts others in a better position to judge as well. The kicking a man when he's down is just sick, I know what I'd want to do to somebody if they did that to any of my family and it wouldn't be retain them on 25 grand a month!

 

[Charlie Livesey was my hero]

Talking of Watford & ex-Watford bad boys - I see Doris pleaded not quilty yesterday at St Albans Crown Court to breaking a mans Jaw on New Years Eve at a restaurant. The case will be heard in August.

 

[emiatss]

The comparison between Marlon King and Troy Deeney surmises what can be a hypocritical stance on footballers with criminal convictions. It is deemed by the public to be an outrage to keep a footballer who is sent to prison on the books and allow him to remain with the club after his sentence finishes, which could happen in the case of Deeney. However, there seems to be a different attitude to players with a criminal convictions joining a new club, as King did with us, with managers and chairman talking about the idea of giving the aforementioned player 'a fresh start'.

Is it right that these two different attitudes exist side-by-side?

 

[North North Watford]

Is it right that these two different attitudes exist side-by-side?

I think the example you give isn't the best one, because Marlon King very clearly wasn't a reformed character.

But I completely understand the viewpoint that we shouldn't pay Deeney for getting himself arrested while contracted to this club, but should be open to the possibility of rehabilitating and re-signing him when he comes out. Just because you're open-minded about having him back doesn't necessarily mean that you would automatically do it, just that you would give him a fair hearing.

 

[babyhornetdan]

I think the example you give isn't the best one, because Marlon King very clearly wasn't a reformed character.

But I completely understand the viewpoint that we shouldn't pay Deeney for getting himself arrested while contracted to this club, but should be open to the possibility of rehabilitating and re-signing him when he comes out. Just because you're open-minded about having him back doesn't necessarily mean that you would automatically do it, just that you would give him a fair hearing.

Ok use another example given by ChrisGwfc on Vital Watford of Moses Ashikodi. He came to the club having been released by Milwall for threatening a team mate with a plastic knife. Whilst Ashikodi did not serve time, this can still be considered a criminal offence of Assault. It would certainly scare the **** out of me!!

 

[North North Watford]

Ok use another example given by ChrisGwfc on Vital Watford of Moses Ashikodi. He came to the club having been released by Milwall for threatening a team mate with a plastic knife. Whilst Ashikodi did not serve time, this can still be considered a criminal offence of Assault. It would certainly scare the **** out of me!!

The problem isn't that he threatened someone with a plastic knife (although it's obviously not a positive). The thing that makes signing him a bad call is that he seemed likely to do it again. Now I don't know the full circumstances, so it's difficult for me to put my finger on where that one went wrong. Did Ashikodi pull off a masterclass in acting, or was Boothroyd simply not particularly bothered about his record?

The advantage we have with Deeney is that the current manager, current coaching staff and current players know him inside out. If given the all-clear by the board to take the decision, they will feel capable of working out whether Troy is likely to do something like this again.

 

[Hornette_TID]

http://www.footballcourier.com/news...hy-watford-should-keep-deeney/full_story.html

This is what i think too!

 

[babyhornetdan]

The problem isn't that he threatened someone with a plastic knife (although it's obviously not a positive). The thing that makes signing him a bad call is that he seemed likely to do it again. Now I don't know the full circumstances, so it's difficult for me to put my finger on where that one went wrong. Did Ashikodi pull off a masterclass in acting, or was Boothroyd simply not particularly bothered about his record?

The advantage we have with Deeney is that the current manager, current coaching staff and current players know him inside out. If given the all-clear by the board to take the decision, they will feel capable of working out whether Troy is likely to do something like this again.

I completely agree. I think anyone who has seen how he adores his little boy will know how much being away from him will hurt. That itself will no doubt be a prison sentence. But the point is that we have hired naughty people, so why should we be slating Deeney? It seems unfair to me.

 

[hornethologist a.k.a. theo]

I completely agree. I think anyone who has seen how he adores his little boy will know how much being away from him will hurt. That itself will no doubt be a prison sentence. But the point is that we have hired naughty people, so why should we be slating Deeney? It seems unfair to me.

He wasn't so keen on someone else's son though. They say the Kray twins were fond of children and old ladies...it doesn't earn them my admiration.

 

[babyhornetdan]

He wasn't so keen on someone else's son though. They say the Kray twins were fond of children and old ladies...it doesn't earn them my admiration.

You tell me that if you saw one of your family (mum, dad, brother, sister) being set upon that you would not react in the same way. You simply cannot, you would hope that you would not act that way, but when the adrenalin flows you loose control. I know, having been in martial arts tournaments then when the ref says stop you dont always react. And the same could be true with this.

Also, Deeney and the Kray twins are chalk and cheese.