Ask Princess - June 2012
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Princess, I just read this article on the Guardian website (and the comments below the article, some of which are excellent) and was wondering if the BHA has any plans or strategy to control the number of horses bred for racing? I assume that the thoroughbred breeding industry is a supply and demand business and that anyone who can afford to send his mare to a stallion has the right to do so. Would racing in general, and horse welfare in particular, be improved if breeding were to be more strictly controlled in terms of quantity and quality? IMHO this would have to go hand-in-hand with fewer race meetings and a general raising of the standard. In short more quality, less quantity.
There has often been talk of limiting the numbers of mares covered by stallions, and I personally would be in favour of such a move.
However, whenever it has been talked about the matter of "restriction of trade" laws have come up. It would simply be illegal to prevent people from "manufacturing the product". Supply and demand is the only thing that the breeding industry can rely on.
The number of foals being born has fallen by about 30% over the last 3 years, so it is up to organisations like the BHA to react and stage fewer races as a result of the falling horse population. If they do not, the numbers will creep back up again.
However, whenever it has been talked about the matter of "restriction of trade" laws have come up. It would simply be illegal to prevent people from "manufacturing the product". Supply and demand is the only thing that the breeding industry can rely on.
The number of foals being born has fallen by about 30% over the last 3 years, so it is up to organisations like the BHA to react and stage fewer races as a result of the falling horse population. If they do not, the numbers will creep back up again.
I'd start by stopping polytrack / fibresand racing from April-November. Just no need for it. Those handicaps where you have the same dozen horses racing each other every couple of weeks are just dire (but don't tell Nass). I'd also limit the number of race metings on a given weekday, decision based on prize money the meeting is offering. I realise alot of the smaller tracks would complain but IMHO racing can do without the spectacle of a 0-45 handicap with a dozen runners in front of 350 spectators ........................
Been giving a horse to watch from Ballydoyle one ran in a listed yesterday but will improve ! The horse I would like to know is freedom fighter by danehill dancer ! Familly/distance
FREEDOM FIGHTER is out of Rose of Petra, a winner over 10f and placed over 12f. She in turn is out of a half-sister to Islington, so I'd say that there is plenty of stamina in the female line.
Danehill Dancer does get good middle distance horses, but the vast majority of his progeny excell at 9f or less.
Danehill Dancer does get good middle distance horses, but the vast majority of his progeny excell at 9f or less.
Nice one
beats what I thought was the cleverest named that being Liz's naming of Bank Bonus
by Motivator out of Small Fortune
beats what I thought was the cleverest named that being Liz's naming of Bank Bonus
by Motivator out of Small Fortune
On a slightly lighter note, a two year old has recently been named (trainer unknown), and must surely be in the running for "Name of the Year"
HELLO SAILOR - by Mount Nelson out of Fairy Queen
That is utterly brilliant; owner, or whatever, deserves an award. Horse deserves to win races, hope it does.
Going back to the Plantation Stud being sold, this is sad news for the stud which was sold to them in about 2007 I suppose. It must have been a costly flop.
I wrote an article about 3 years ago questioning whether the Howard de Waldens had got it wrong when selling Thornton Stud and trying to run with just Plantation Stud. The gist of it being that when de Walden owned both studs, the foals and yearlings lived up at Thirsk and were brought up in the tough environment of North Yorkshire but more importantly were grazing on its limestone pasture. So horses like Pinza, Crepello, St Paddy, Kris and Slip Anchor would have all been raised at Thornton Stud (Sir Victor Sassoon owned Thornton before de Walden).
The de Walden family sold Thornton in 2004 and didn't have a good horse after that, yet for the previous 30 years had been turning out regular Group 1 and 2 horses: the last was Grand Lodge. As the man who bought Plantation took over all the famous de Walden families it is surprising he had nothing of comparison with these horses. Could it be that the Plantation Stud cannot rear horses as it is? If this appears fanciful then Noel Murless got as many of his owner-breeders as he could to have their young stock reared in Yorkshire. Even Sir Henry got Daniel Wildenstein to send foals and yearlings up to his Chop Gate stud. I was always intrigued that the de Walden winning machine turned off as if a tap was turned off.
Who has purchased the Plantation Stud?
I wrote an article about 3 years ago questioning whether the Howard de Waldens had got it wrong when selling Thornton Stud and trying to run with just Plantation Stud. The gist of it being that when de Walden owned both studs, the foals and yearlings lived up at Thirsk and were brought up in the tough environment of North Yorkshire but more importantly were grazing on its limestone pasture. So horses like Pinza, Crepello, St Paddy, Kris and Slip Anchor would have all been raised at Thornton Stud (Sir Victor Sassoon owned Thornton before de Walden).
The de Walden family sold Thornton in 2004 and didn't have a good horse after that, yet for the previous 30 years had been turning out regular Group 1 and 2 horses: the last was Grand Lodge. As the man who bought Plantation took over all the famous de Walden families it is surprising he had nothing of comparison with these horses. Could it be that the Plantation Stud cannot rear horses as it is? If this appears fanciful then Noel Murless got as many of his owner-breeders as he could to have their young stock reared in Yorkshire. Even Sir Henry got Daniel Wildenstein to send foals and yearlings up to his Chop Gate stud. I was always intrigued that the de Walden winning machine turned off as if a tap was turned off.
Who has purchased the Plantation Stud?
I do recall that article Bustino and I was trying to track it down but your articles under your current name on 606 only go back to Jan 2010. I don't suppose you can remember (vaguely) the thread title, or if you ever posted under a different name.
Ron
Is this it http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A47653536 > I was then Bustino74, and it was Feb '09. Have just reread it and I forgot about Catchascatchcan who came after.
Is this it http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A47653536 > I was then Bustino74, and it was Feb '09. Have just reread it and I forgot about Catchascatchcan who came after.
The man who bought Plantation Stud, and Araafa (Dermot O'Rourke) is (was) an Irish property developer. Rumour has it that he lots tens of millions in the Irish housing market and that the sale of Plantation has been on the cards for some time. The official line is that someone approached them to ask if they would consider selling the stud and they then decided to put it on the open market.
He paid well over the odds for Araafa, again the rumour mill put his price at around £15million.
I don't think they got much in the way of stock in the sale of Plantation. Certainly Lady Howard de Walden still has horses in training from the good families, though her stock are listed as bred by "Avington Manor Stud".
He paid well over the odds for Araafa, again the rumour mill put his price at around £15million.
I don't think they got much in the way of stock in the sale of Plantation. Certainly Lady Howard de Walden still has horses in training from the good families, though her stock are listed as bred by "Avington Manor Stud".
No pN she only has 3 mares as far as I can see ( La Persiana (Grand Lodge family), Gravitation (Fame and Glory family) and Nirvana (Wellbeing family), She's even out of the Kris and Slip Anchor families. Really only La Persiana is from one of the good old de Walden families.
All the rest stayed at Plantation. But they've reduced year on year and if someone has bought Plantation they'll still have 5 of the de Walden mares if the mares went with them.
All the rest stayed at Plantation. But they've reduced year on year and if someone has bought Plantation they'll still have 5 of the de Walden mares if the mares went with them.
I reckon that was it Bustino. Good article and provoked some good posts. Nice to look back on some of the better posts on 606. I wonder if it would be interesting to have an index on this forum of some of the more interesting threads on the old 606. It seems a shame to lose track of them.
Hi PN
I think you have answered this question previously on 606 for me so sorry but I have forgotten and it takes so long to find info from there now.
What happened to Jupiter Pluvius who raced 4 times for Aidan O'Brien. I really liked him and remember him getting the better of Famous Name as a juvenile and running a good 6th in the Jersey Stakes on his final start. Thank you
I think you have answered this question previously on 606 for me so sorry but I have forgotten and it takes so long to find info from there now.
What happened to Jupiter Pluvius who raced 4 times for Aidan O'Brien. I really liked him and remember him getting the better of Famous Name as a juvenile and running a good 6th in the Jersey Stakes on his final start. Thank you