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Jacky Ickx said:
Hostage taking cowards? The cowards are the ones hiding behind air strikes and apaches.
The Afghanis have successfully repelled every imperialistic atttempt for centuries from the British Empire to Russia etc.
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Cowards who hide behind innocent civilians after taking a pop shot at a patrol knowing we won't fire, Cowards who plant IED's because they don't have the balls to fight face to face. Your a ****ing idiot for calling our troops/allied troops in the airforce/artillery leaving our country,families behind for 6 months at a time cowards whilst you sit hdppily behind your computer screen. ****ing idiot.
 
Amazed by some of the racist comments on this thread and surprised that none of the Mods have seen fit to have them removed. I'm glad to read St. Godder's response which is sensible and more accurate. It is totally unacceptable to refer to Muslims as "rag-heads" and cannot be excused on any account.

Intrigued to read that "criminal" had taken these hostages and, at the risk of being desribed as a "liberal" am surprised that the Seals and SAS killed them outright as they were not Taliban. There would be a national outcry is hostage takers were dispacted in this fashion in the UK.

My other comment that I wanted to make was that I understand that these hostages were Christian aid workers. For me, this is yet another instance of Christians interfering in the affairs / social order of a country where their religion is neother appreciated nor wanted. This smacks of 19th Century Evangalism and whilst this was well-meaning, it has historically caused nothing but problems for the last 200 years. Not only did these people put themselves at risk but they also risked the lives of the soldiers. Wherever Christians go, they cause trouble, disruption and death. Christians should not interfer in Islamic countries -this goes for Governments and individuals and is a fact that has been borne out throughout the last three hundred years. Countries like Afghanistan have never known "democracy" as we "know" it and it is pointless imposing Western values where they cannot be understood.

The truth is that we are not welcome in Afghanistan and our involvement in this country has only heightened the risk of hostage taking as all that outside involvement from Britain in the Afghan Wars of 19th Century, Russia, Al Qaeda and the Coalition has achieved is the distruction of social order and the economy. I think the bravery and expertise of the SAS should be celebrated but this needs to be balanced with the fact that their employment should not have been necessary and the whole Western involvement in the country is doing nothing to stablise Afghanistan and having negative effects in both Iran and Pakistan too.
 
benditlikeabanana said:
Joe Steinberg said:
Liberal PC waste of space here. People like you are the reason why our trigger-happy "brave soldiers" are running around in their countries, murdering and torturing innocents. Our armed forces commit the same atrocities theirs do, and they all need to be brought home. You need to get a grip my ignorant, racist friend.

so you say it is ok for these brave taliban freedom fighters to kidnap 4 helpless people that were only trying to help people, probably had the camera ready to record the beheading. You my friend are a deluded idiot if you think they would not be killed- and why, because they have an inbred hatred to anything that they do not believe in. sorry but a major war will happen, millions will die, maybe not in our lifetime, but the muslim faith should be one of love and helping of the weak, but zelots have warped the words of mohammed to fit thier agenda. there will not be and can not be any peace with the likes of the taliban as we will always be considered by them as the enemy. By the way, every person on this planet is racist in one way or another
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People like you make me ashamed to be English/human. Maybe read up on what the British/US forces regularly do to innocent civilians out there. Maybe that goes a long way to explaining some of the "talibans" behaviours. I also find it sickening that 30 years ago the US spent billions funding the mujahideen defence of Afghanistan against soviet invasion yet now they're invading for the exact same imperialist reasons.
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On The Bus said:
benditlikeabanana said:
People like you make me ashamed to be English/human. Maybe read up on what the British/US forces regularly do to innocent civilians out there. Maybe that goes a long way to explaining some of the "talibans" behaviours. I also find it sickening that 30 years ago the US spent billions funding the mujahideen defence of Afghanistan against soviet invasion yet now they're invading for the exact same imperialist reasons.
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I feel that there may of been some tit for tat going on as the Russions, I believe, were helping to equip the 'enemy' during the Vietnam war. This of course at the expense of many lives. Sadly many people read media sources that (as St Godders pointed out) appeal to base hate. I guess its easier for people to think that they are on the side of justice. I find demonising of any sort frustrating, as it avoids tackling the real problem/issues.
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benditlikeabanana said:
so you say it is ok for these brave taliban freedom fighters to kidnap 4 helpless people that were only trying to help people, probably had the camera ready to record the beheading. You my friend are a deluded idiot if you think they would not be killed- and why, because they have an inbred hatred to anything that they do not believe in. sorry but a major war will happen, millions will die, maybe not in our lifetime, but the muslim faith should be one of love and helping of the weak, but zelots have warped the words of mohammed to fit thier agenda. there will not be and can not be any peace with the likes of the taliban as we will always be considered by them as the enemy. By the way, every person on this planet is racist in one way or another
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No, I never said that was okay did I? Don't make stuff up. The fundamentalist Muslims make up a very small minority of their religion, and the other 99.9% don't deserve this kind of treatment from people like you. The Taliban is an awful organisation, but we shouldn't be stooping to their level. More importantly, we should just be leaving them alone as there is no winning this "war on terror" and all we are doing is making them angry.

And no, I am not racist in any way. I don't know where you get this bullshit information.
 
AberdeenSaint said:
It wouldn`t bore me to death at all, quite the opposite. At the time of his dispersal in June 1919, he was regimental number 2573, Corporal 6th Battalion, 32 Company, MGC. History I have is a bit sketchy, but he was at Ypres in 1915, and was wounded on 2 occasions - don`t know in which engagements. Your right, once they started firing, they had a couple of minutes before their artillery gave them some special treatment. Do you have a source for detailed records ? I have a photo of him training with a Vickers gun - I always assumed in England, but maybe it was in Wisque.
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I would suggest that you visit this website:

http://www.machineguncorps.co.uk/

If you would like more information about your grandfather's involvement with the MGC then contact Graham Sacker who has an enormous archive of MGC documents. For a fee he will research your ancestors history in the MGC.

He would no doubt also welcome copies of any documents or photographs you have of your grandad's involvement with the MGC.

I have PMd you with his email address.

I am assuming from your thread name that you live in Aberdeen so I recommend you go to your local library and ask them to obtain through an inter library loan a copy of:

From Chauffeur to Brigadier by Christopher D’Arcy Baker-Carr (Pub Benn, London 1930).

This is a fabulous book and a great read all about the establishment of the MGC in WW1.

A couple of books you can buy are:

With a Machine Gun to Cambrai by George Coppard

Machine Gunner 1914 - 1918 by C E Crutchley

both will give a real flavour of the horrors of being a machine gunner.
 
Joe Steinberg said:
Liberal PC waste of space here. People like you are the reason why our trigger-happy "brave soldiers" are running around in their countries, murdering and torturing innocents. Our armed forces commit the same atrocities theirs do, and they all need to be brought home. You need to get a grip my ignorant, racist friend.
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Hey come on Joe you are training in the law so you had better learn to make a more cogent argument than this if you intend to sway a jury in favour of you client.

My nephew is a Barrister and when he got married he was as nervous as hell because he knew all of his friends from the legal profession who were guests would be assessing his speech. Their standards were high and they expected a "courtroom performance" from him even on his wedding day!

By the way have you visited your thread lately only Fran and I are far too busy to look after it 24 hours a day for you. It is about time you started to take your responsibilties seriously.
 
St Godders of Windsor said:
I would suggest that you visit this website:

http://www.machineguncorps.co.uk/

If you would like more information about your grandfather's involvement with the MGC then contact Graham Sacker who has an enormous archive of MGC documents. For a fee he will research your ancestors history in the MGC.

He would no doubt also welcome copies of any documents or photographs you have of your grandad's involvement with the MGC.

I have PMd you with his email address.

I am assuming from your thread name that you live in Aberdeen so I recommend you go to your local library and ask them to obtain through an inter library loan a copy of:

From Chauffeur to Brigadier by Christopher D’Arcy Baker-Carr (Pub Benn, London 1930).

This is a fabulous book and a great read all about the establishment of the MGC in WW1.

A couple of books you can buy are:

With a Machine Gun to Cambrai by George Coppard

Machine Gunner 1914 - 1918 by C E Crutchley

both will give a real flavour of the horrors of being a machine gunner.
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Thanks for the info and advice Godders - I shall get after it.
 
Joe Steinberg said:
No, I never said that was okay did I? Don't make stuff up. The fundamentalist Muslims make up a very small minority of their religion, and the other 99.9% don't deserve this kind of treatment from people like you. The Taliban is an awful organisation, but we shouldn't be stooping to their level. More importantly, we should just be leaving them alone as there is no winning this "war on terror" and all we are doing is making them angry.

And no, I am not racist in any way. I don't know where you get this bullshit information.
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Joe, this is a forum with lots of people with different ideas, which is great as in a taliban state you would not have this freedom. I find it strange that you would call british troops murderers, they are there in difficult conditions on orders. I could never imagine looking at a 4 year old girl crossing the road and thinking does she have explosives strapped to her body, and is she looking to kill me or my troop or innocents. whenever someone says something that you may find offensive its easy to call them racist, have you ever laughed at an irish joke-then your racist, have you called a pompey fan a skate' then your racist. Like I said everybody is racist, but I´m not saying you wear a pillow case on your head to tescos
 
benditlikeabanana said:
Joe, this is a forum with lots of people with different ideas, which is great as in a taliban state you would not have this freedom. I find it strange that you would call british troops murderers, they are there in difficult conditions on orders. I could never imagine looking at a 4 year old girl crossing the road and thinking does she have explosives strapped to her body, and is she looking to kill me or my troop or innocents. whenever someone says something that you may find offensive its easy to call them racist, have you ever laughed at an irish joke-then your racist, have you called a pompey fan a skate' then your racist. Like I said everybody is racist, but I´m not saying you wear a pillow case on your head to tescos
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Er last time I checked, Irish and Portsmouth weren't races.
 
if you show ill feeling, hatred towards a minority then it is racism, are gypsies a race. if not then calling them gippos is ok, if they are then calling them gippos is racism. whats the difference with calling someone a gypsy a gippo and Lambert a scouser
 
Firstly i try not to bite and had to brush over most of your hugely misinformed rubbish you spouted, but i feel i should let you know what actually happens as i am about to deploy yet again to afghan!

The Taliban are not actually an awful organisation, far from it, a large group of proud muslims who believe in following their religious principles to the word. Predominantly from the Qandahar area, they ruled effectively but unfortunately were infiltrated in the positions of power by a group of radicalists, who were and are not all muslim, under the name Al-Qaeda. This has become widely used now, a bit like a franchise if you will but with no annual fee! Now the Talibs are not what we generally refer to as Taliban. These men are normally paid fighters from surrounding countries who want greater financial reward or maybe have been pressed into it after their families have been threatened.

Atrocities do happen, unfortunately they always will because there are some people out there who are just a little bit different, i can't tell you why but they are. When you go out to a conflict and get shot at it can do different things to you, i will say though that nowadays the british forces do not commit them on some regular basis like you seem to imply. They are fine disciplined men who might like a scrap in a bar or one drink too many but dont begrudge them that. As for atrocities i have had a 4 year old girl down the back of my aircraft shot deliberately to get us to go get her and then have a go at us. If that is the sort of people you wish to defend then by all means go ahead but dear god please never meet me!

They are awful and imposing themselves on a peaceful group of people you have probably never met, have no understanding of how they live and no knowledge of the mutual respect between us currently being strengthened by the hard work of all the armed forces involved in ISAF. Maybe bare in mind that the freedom you have to say what you did is given to you by those who have the courage to stand up and do something you never could, lay their lives on the line for the country, for the people and in particular on this weekend our Queen!

Regards
 
Thank you very much,

Very different for us in an aircraft, never anywhere near the same threat as the brave chaps on the ground face, but all support is appreciated!
 
huwliet said:
Firstly i try not to bite and had to brush over most of your hugely misinformed rubbish you spouted, but i feel i should let you know what actually happens as i am about to deploy yet again to afghan!

The Taliban are not actually an awful organisation, far from it, a large group of proud muslims who believe in following their religious principles to the word. Predominantly from the Qandahar area, they ruled effectively but unfortunately were infiltrated in the positions of power by a group of radicalists, who were and are not all muslim, under the name Al-Qaeda. This has become widely used now, a bit like a franchise if you will but with no annual fee! Now the Talibs are not what we generally refer to as Taliban. These men are normally paid fighters from surrounding countries who want greater financial reward or maybe have been pressed into it after their families have been threatened.

Atrocities do happen, unfortunately they always will because there are some people out there who are just a little bit different, i can't tell you why but they are. When you go out to a conflict and get shot at it can do different things to you, i will say though that nowadays the british forces do not commit them on some regular basis like you seem to imply. They are fine disciplined men who might like a scrap in a bar or one drink too many but dont begrudge them that. As for atrocities i have had a 4 year old girl down the back of my aircraft shot deliberately to get us to go get her and then have a go at us. If that is the sort of people you wish to defend then by all means go ahead but dear god please never meet me!

They are awful and imposing themselves on a peaceful group of people you have probably never met, have no understanding of how they live and no knowledge of the mutual respect between us currently being strengthened by the hard work of all the armed forces involved in ISAF. Maybe bare in mind that the freedom you have to say what you did is given to you by those who have the courage to stand up and do something you never could, lay their lives on the line for the country, for the people and in particular on this weekend our Queen!

Regards
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Got a lot of respect for what you do mate, especially as I couldn't do it myself. I don't agree with the Government's decision to send you lot over there though. And I don't think I've been spouting any misinformed rubbish. It's no secret that there have been plenty of people out there (on both sides) who have been committing atrocities and not playing by the rules. I'm not defending anyone other than the innocents who have suffered as a result of this war. As for your final paragraph, I fail to see how this particular war has anything to do with our freedoms over here. They're not fighting for this country; it has very little to do with this country.

Good luck out there anyway.
 
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