Downing

[Mr Mischief]

Wiltshire is immense... Seeing as how he is injured we will have no creativity in the midfield (Gerrard is a shadow of the player he used to be).

We will go out in the Group stage (France first and Ukraine second) OR knockout!

Gloomy but real!

 

[milner_for_england]

The biggest travesty is leaving Richards behind. So much potential, and so much talent in attack and defence. So we take Johnson, who is defensively abysmal.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

The biggest travesty is leaving Richards behind. So much potential, and so much talent in attack and defence. So we take Johnson, who is defensively abysmal.

Actually had a very good season in a poor Liverpool side and improved massively on his defensive work (he's had plenty to do). Richards is good but the poorest of the 3 right backs under consideration in terms of technique. Walker is clearly our best option, and once he was out you then you have the choice to go with the power and athleticism of Richards or the attacking threat and technique of Johnson. To be fair to Hodgson he has gone for technique which is understandable given how exposed it gets at international level. Richards is unlucky that Rooney is out of the first games or I suspect we'd have taken two right backs. I like Richards and he is great to watch as he is all action. But you can't get away from the fact he still has defensive issues, hence Mankini prefers the more reliable Zabeleta.

The biggest travesty for me was Phil Jagielka not getting on the plane. I'd have left Terry at home.

 

[milner_for_england]

Actually had a very good season in a poor Liverpool side and improved massively on his defensive work (he's had plenty to do). Richards is good but the poorest of the 3 right backs under consideration in terms of technique. Walker is clearly our best option, and once he was out you then you have the choice to go with the power and athleticism of Richards or the attacking threat and technique of Johnson. To be fair to Hodgson he has gone for technique which is understandable given how exposed it gets at international level. Richards is unlucky that Rooney is out of the first games or I suspect we'd have taken two right backs. I like Richards and he is great to watch as he is all action. But you can't get away from the fact he still has defensive issues, hence Mankini prefers the more reliable Zabeleta.

The biggest travesty for me was Phil Jagielka not getting on the plane. I'd have left Terry at home.

I disagree almost wholly with your statement, apart from the Terry bit, the precedent has been set that if facing criminal charges, you are NOT fit for England duty. We should not break this rule for ANYONE. Terry may or may not be innocent, but whilst this has not been sorted out, he should not be in the squad.
Richards has always been better defensively than Johnson, and that has not changed. He is also better going forward in my opinion. Johnson would not get in the City team ahead of Zabaleta either, so moot point. Quite frankly, at international level, pace and power are king. We are never going to play Spain type football, so let's play to our strengths and play traditional football with wing play and a big man up top, with a little man feeding off the scraps. Carroll was the RIGHT choice over Crouch due to his strength and technique (Crouch is on the whole, appalling with flashes of good play). We probably will not win this Euro (never say never in football) but we can at least cause teams some problems.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I disagree almost wholly with your statement, apart from the Terry bit, the precedent has been set that if facing criminal charges, you are NOT fit for England duty. We should not break this rule for ANYONE. Terry may or may not be innocent, but whilst this has not been sorted out, he should not be in the squad.
Richards has always been better defensively than Johnson, and that has not changed. He is also better going forward in my opinion. Johnson would not get in the City team ahead of Zabaleta either, so moot point. Quite frankly, at international level, pace and power are king. We are never going to play Spain type football, so let's play to our strengths and play traditional football with wing play and a big man up top, with a little man feeding off the scraps. Carroll was the RIGHT choice over Crouch due to his strength and technique (Crouch is on the whole, appalling with flashes of good play). We probably will not win this Euro (never say never in football) but we can at least cause teams some problems.

Not a moot point at all about Zabeleta. You've missed the point. I'm not saying Johnson would get in ahead of Zabeleta, I'm simply pointing out that Richards undoubtedly has defensive issues still and lacks technique, that is the reason Mancini considers him a reserve. Pace and power are almost certainly not king at international level, technique is. To be honest the England team is proof of this. We are nearly always among the strongest and athletic physically. Our problem has been we languish near the very foot of the technique levels. How many times in recent tournaments have we seen English teams chasing shadows as the opposition tire us with ball retention before landing the killer blow? Its all too familiar now.

We'll agree to disagree on Johnson/Richards defensively. I have reservations about Johnson because he has never performed very well defensively for England. But then he has never been playing as well defensively as he is now for Liverpool. But I have equally as many issues with Micah Richards. This was borne out when he had a pretty poor game against Netherlands recently in a friendly and his defensive lapses led to one of the goals. Don't get me wrong I like Richards but I'm not fooled by his gusto and bravado. He has a lot to learn.

 

[milner_for_england]

Not a moot point at all about Zabeleta. You've missed the point. I'm not saying Johnson would get in ahead of Zabeleta, I'm simply pointing out that Richards undoubtedly has defensive issues still and lacks technique, that is the reason Mancini considers him a reserve. Pace and power are almost certainly not king at international level, technique is. To be honest the England team is proof of this. We are nearly always among the strongest and athletic physically. Our problem has been we languish near the very foot of the technique levels. How many times in recent tournaments have we seen English teams chasing shadows as the opposition tire us with ball retention before landing the killer blow? Its all too familiar now.

We'll agree to disagree on Johnson/Richards defensively. I have reservations about Johnson because he has never performed very well defensively for England. But then he has never been playing as well defensively as he is now for Liverpool. But I have equally as many issues with Micah Richards. This was borne out when he had a pretty poor game against Netherlands recently in a friendly and his defensive lapses led to one of the goals. Don't get me wrong I like Richards but I'm not fooled by his gusto and bravado. He has a lot to learn.

I don't disagree that Richards has some learning to do, but leaving him at home wont teach him anything. Plus this whole being left out of City side is only at the back end of the season. He was Mancini's captain for many games so definitely not just a reserve.
The problem is we are RARELY physical or athletic. Players like Lampard and Barry have no place in this England team. yet we take them and they play. The reason we got trashed by Germany (ignoring the poor officiating) was their pace and power. We had NOTHING. The Ox, Young, Lennon, and Wilshere would make a massive difference had we had them for the world cup, obviously, we still don't have the ideal squad now, but in my opinion, the youth are the way to do things at the major tournaments. Pace, power, maybe a lack of finesse at times, but potential will scare the opposition more than Fat Frank lumbering down the field.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I wouldn't disagree on Lampard and Barry. But the reason I'd be pushing the likes of Oxlade and Wiltshire on is more for their technique. The sad thing is we have had one of the most technically gifted players in Europe in our ranks since the early 90's. But he didn't fit the typical english bull so we discarded him. More fool us. Step forward Paul Scholes. Still the best English midfielder in the country this season. At 37!

I'd forget Lennon. Like Walcott, all pace but a lack of natural footballing ability. Plus Lennon is just 10mins away from his next injury. I agree we need to go the younger route. One of the reasons I'd have left Lampard, Terry, Barry out of my squad. I still think Gerrard has enough to warrant a place.

The reason we got trashed off Germany was not pace and power for me. It came down to one thing, Upson and Terry. Both are attack the ball centre backs and Germany cleverly exploited this with some quick clever passing. Terry is so easy to pull out of defence its unreal. Everyone champions his never say die all on the line stuff. But its exactly this playing with your heart and not your head the Germans took advantage of. To be fair also Klose is an unusual striker to deal with. Doesn't look any great shakes but put a German top on him and he is possessed.

I'd have taken Richards once Walker was out. I'd have risked going without the extra striker or left Walcott at home. I don't like the idea of Johnson getting injured and Phil Jones trying to play right back at that level.

 

[milner_for_england]

I wouldn't disagree on Lampard and Barry. But the reason I'd be pushing the likes of Oxlade and Wiltshire on is more for their technique. The sad thing is we have had one of the most technically gifted players in Europe in our ranks since the early 90's. But he didn't fit the typical english bull so we discarded him. More fool us. Step forward Paul Scholes. Still the best English midfielder in the country this season. At 37!

I'd forget Lennon. Like Walcott, all pace but a lack of natural footballing ability. Plus Lennon is just 10mins away from his next injury. I agree we need to go the younger route. One of the reasons I'd have left Lampard, Terry, Barry out of my squad. I still think Gerrard has enough to warrant a place.

The reason we got trashed off Germany was not pace and power for me. It came down to one thing, Upson and Terry. Both are attack the ball centre backs and Germany cleverly exploited this with some quick clever passing. Terry is so easy to pull out of defence its unreal. Everyone champions his never say die all on the line stuff. But its exactly this playing with your heart and not your head the Germans took advantage of. To be fair also Klose is an unusual striker to deal with. Doesn't look any great shakes but put a German top on him and he is possessed.

I'd have taken Richards once Walker was out. I'd have risked going without the extra striker or left Walcott at home. I don't like the idea of Johnson getting injured and Phil Jones trying to play right back at that level.

Ha ha we have very different views on Scholes to. Never did anything in an England shirt, hence why they stopped considering him.

Upson is never good enough for England, Terry is past it, Jones is not a right back, Barry was last man back against the German youth at times, THAT was suicidal. I do despair at times that we do not progress the right players, and I agree that Ox and Wilshere should be the first names on the team sheet when fit. The truth is, we probably need a mixture of all the attributes we have been discussing, as we don't have one set style of player like Spain seem to.

This is what football forums are for though. Sensible discussion with people who's views differ from your own and I respect your opinions on this despite disagreeing with many of them!

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Ha ha we have very different views on Scholes to. Never did anything in an England shirt, hence why they stopped considering him.
Upson is never good enough for England, Terry is past it, Jones is not a right back, Barry was last man back against the German youth at times, THAT was suicidal. I do despair at times that we do not progress the right players, and I agree that Ox and Wilshere should be the first names on the team sheet when fit. The truth is, we probably need a mixture of all the attributes we have been discussing, as we don't have one set style of player like Spain seem to.

This is what football forums are for though. Sensible discussion with people who's views differ from your own and I respect your opinions on this despite disagreeing with many of them!

Aye because he was stuck on the left of midfield to accomodate lesser players.

 

[Rafa's Championship Party]

Ha ha we have very different views on Scholes to. Never did anything in an England shirt, hence why they stopped considering him.

Upson is never good enough for England, Terry is past it, Jones is not a right back, Barry was last man back against the German youth at times, THAT was suicidal. I do despair at times that we do not progress the right players, and I agree that Ox and Wilshere should be the first names on the team sheet when fit. The truth is, we probably need a mixture of all the attributes we have been discussing, as we don't have one set style of player like Spain seem to.

This is what football forums are for though. Sensible discussion with people who's views differ from your own and I respect your opinions on this despite disagreeing with many of them!

Scholes did well when he first came in the team, remember watching him get a hat trick first time I went to an England match. However he did struggle towards the end, as England struggled to fit him in the team with Gerrard and Lampard.

 

[milner_for_england]

Scholes did well when he first came in the team, remember watching him get a hat trick first time I went to an England match. However he did struggle towards the end, as England struggled to fit him in the team with Gerrard and Lampard.

We always treat players in this manner. Stick your more talented players out of position, as they will still do a job out of position and allow a lesser player to fulfill their meagre potential, when you should always play to your strengths. The collective should always be more important than the individual, but no England manager has been able to see this yet.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

We always treat players in this manner. Stick your more talented players out of position, as they will still do a job out of position and allow a lesser player to fulfill their meagre potential, when you should always play to your strengths. The collective should always be more important than the individual, but no England manager has been able to see this yet.

Imagine if England had woke up all those years ago and realised there was more to football than 442.

A midfield trio of Gerrard, Scholes and Beckham sounds decent to me.