EPL v non-EPL signings

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lennypops

lennypops

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2011
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California
So following on from something I said in another thread:

I've just been realising how many of our really successful signings in recent years have come from the Prem versus those that have come from outside the Prem:

Successful signings from outside the Prem since 04 (year picked at random):

Dawson
Carrick
Huddlestone
Lennon
Davids
Assou Ekkotto
Berbatov
Bale
Modric
Walker
Sandro
VDV
Parker (alright - bit misleading)


From within the Prem:

Woodgate
Corluka
Crouch
Gallas (but a free so shouldn't really count)
Krancjar
Kaboul
Defoe (maaaybe)

...and I'm being a bit generous to Crouch there.

Couple of things to notice:

- The Portsmouth fire sale provides four out of six (if you don't include Gallas) of our really good signings from the EPL in the last EIGHT years.

- The majority of the EPL ones are Harry signings.

- A lot of our big flops (who are therefore not on the lists above) came from the EPL - Bentley, Bent, Keane, Palacios (for the price)...

Point I'm making is that buying players from the EPL is a mug's game unless you can, like Man Utd or City just fork out £30-40m for the very best and the inflated fees we've paid in the past have only secured comparatively average players for much of the time. I mean - Corluka, as much as I like him, cost £8m! That's a Pappis Cisse right there! Or a VDV!

Oh - and it's a bit of a shame that Harry does love a bit of the old "Prem League experienced" side of things. (I do, however, think that transfers since he got here have improved a lot).

Just thought I'd share...
 
You're pretty right on this one. The way the EPL is where it is, is teams buy in talent from outside it, and then they get traded around the top teams for a while, before going to Italy or Spain. It's a shame this is how it works, BUT, if 'Arry is reading this, he'll know to send his scouts everywhere BUT EPL teams in future
 
I voted for you as an ideas man on the not606 awards <laugh> This kind of thread is why. It's an interesting way of looking at transfers.

Of course in my present mindset of not too enamoured with Redknapp I am immediately going to point out how few of our present squad he has signed himself.

Parker
Crouch
Gallas
Kranjcar
Kaboul
Defoe

I think that's it. Only two are first choice players for our best 11. Hmm!
 
Ha! Cheers, Spurf. Not sure how I earned that...

To add to your list:

Walker
Nelson
Bassong
Khomulo (is that even spelt right?)
Sandro
Pienaar
Adebayor (oh - he's not ur player any more)
Saha
VDV

(again off the top of my head)

Now I bet some might say that VDV and Sandro "aren't Harry signings". But I'm not into that. Too much speculation and hearsay. Possibly the Walker/Naughton signings were set up before he arrived, not sure. But they came whilst he was manager.

So that's another three of the starting eleven. Plus Bassong made huge contributions to the first 11 when he first came and Sandro is definitely good enough for the first 11, just unlucky to have Parker in the way right now.
 
VDV was Levy with a do you want him Harry. So not a Redknapp signing.

Sandro came though an agreement Spurs had set up with a South American club (?) before he arrived so again not a Redknapp signing.

Walker/Naughton I don't think so.

Pienaar yes
Saha yes.

So still only two!
 
However to get back to the point of your thread it is pretty impressive evidence that we should be looking outside the PL for our future players.

Something NUFC have done this season in a very impressive manner. Do we have a network of worldwide scouts?
Spurcat will probably be able to tell us about that. Agents of course will be touting their wears it makes you wonder if the rise of agents has seen the demise of scouting networks, again Spurcat may know.
 
It appears our scouts aren't trusted or paid attention to by Redknapp (yes he said that one of them didn't rate Suarez but on the other hand were there really no players better/less injury prone than Nelsen and Saha?)
 
Spurf said:
VDV was Levy with a do you want him Harry. So not a Redknapp signing.

Sandro came though an agreement Spurs had set up with a South American club (?) before he arrived so again not a Redknapp signing.

Walker/Naughton I don't think so.

Pienaar yes
Saha yes.

So still only two!
Click to expand...

Now, now - you're doing all that speculation that I wanted to avoid. Harry arrived Oct 2008. Walker and Naughton joined summer 2009 . Deal was set up in the Spring or something as I recall - all while Harry was here. Sandro joined summer 2010. Don't believe that deal was really two years in the making! VDV? Well -whatever. But then I'm sure it was not rocket science for SAF to spend £30m or so on Rooney once his chairman told him the deal was possible.

But aaanyway...

Tell you what - I was just about to write about all the great strikers they've had at Newcastle in recent years but actually after the days of Beardsley, Shearer, Cole Ferdinand etc there was about a decade of LuaLuas and Kluiverts and that French bloke who played in the WC final. And then Carroll (who, whilst always looking a bit dodgy at least did a job for them), Ba and Cisse in the last couple of years.

I heard on the radio a few years ago that Everton entered into an agreement with the makers of the Football Manager computer game developers because the network of scouts they have is far greater than most (maybe all?) top professional clubs.
 
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
It appears our scouts aren't trusted or paid attention to by Redknapp (yes he said that one of them didn't rate Suarez but on the other hand were there really no players better/less injury prone than Nelsen and Saha?)
Click to expand...

I find that amazing. I mean - we ARE talking about a player that played loads of games in the World Cup Finals. Does any manager really need anyone to tell them about players like this? Do they not have a TV? I think my opinion of what Suarez was like as a player (and as a diving little ****) was pretty well formed by the end of the WC. And it's not even my job.

Wasn't it that the information he was getting was that Suarez couldn't play on his own up front? Or that he was not an out-and-out striker? Rather than that he simply didn't rate him.
 
SpursLegend said:
Re: Everton and Football Manager:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/u...n-football-manager-video-game-86908-20893667/

It really is a genius idea, and ideal for both clubs. SI will get a decent fee by computer game standard off of Everton, but Everton will pay a small fee by football's standards for the service. Both parties happy.
Click to expand...

Ah! Nice spot. But I'm not so sure that the computer games industry is as small and grateful for tidbits from football clubs as you might think. It is a huge business nowadays - richer and with greater profits than the movie industry now I believe. So a few quid from Everton isn't such a big deal for them, I'm sure.
 
A comment from SAF re Man U policy something you would hope Spurs are serious about.


'Ferguson also admitted that United cannot compete with the newly crowned champions, Manchester City, in the transfer market. He said: "We invest in young players. That is what we are good at &#8211; we're not like other clubs who can spend fortunes on proven goods. We know that City are going to spend fortunes, pay stupid money, pay silly salaries and all that.

"We can't do anything about that. We concentrate on what we can do to try to bring players in for the right reasons. We invest in players who will be with the club for a long time, who will create the character of the club, who will create excitement for our fans, and we are very proud of that and we are going to continue that way. We're good at it. If you are good at it then stick with it. We also have some maturity in the team." '
 
"we're not like other clubs who can spend fortunes on proven goods."

<laugh>

Tell that to Carrick, Veron, Nistelrooy, Berbatov, Ferdinand, Rooney, Vidic, Jones, De Gea, Young, Smalling, Valencia, Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves
 
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said:
"we're not like other clubs who can spend fortunes on proven goods."

<laugh>

Tell that to Carrick, Veron, Nistelrooy, Berbatov, Ferdinand, Rooney, Vidic, Jones, De Gea, Young, Smalling, Valencia, Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves
Click to expand...

Yes, but apart from all those what has money ever done for Man United? <laugh>
 
Spurf said:
A comment from SAF re Man U policy something you would hope Spurs are serious about.


'Ferguson also admitted that United cannot compete with the newly crowned champions, Manchester City, in the transfer market. He said: "We invest in young players. That is what we are good at &#8211; we're not like other clubs who can spend fortunes on proven goods. We know that City are going to spend fortunes, pay stupid money, pay silly salaries and all that.

"We can't do anything about that. We concentrate on what we can do to try to bring players in for the right reasons. We invest in players who will be with the club for a long time, who will create the character of the club, who will create excitement for our fans, and we are very proud of that and we are going to continue that way. We're good at it. If you are good at it then stick with it. We also have some maturity in the team." '
Click to expand...

That is possibly the most absurd and obviously incorrect thing he has ever said. Amazing.
 
Good article Lenny <ok>

It's crazy how inflated the fees are when buying from another Prem club and then if they're English there's about another 25%+ on top!

In regards to the "Redknapp" signings that I've seen a few people think about, Rafa may not have been one Harry was chasing and that Levy techinically got hold of but Rafa wouldn't have been so successful if Harry hadn't have deployed him in the free role.

Redknapps signings (or Redknapp era) that I can think of:

Palacios - Success prior to tragic death of brother.
Crouch - Success - Got us CL football and kept us in it vs Young Boys (though did f*ck up vs Madrid)
Kranjcar - Success - Good player on his day, chipped in with some goals, not many better squad players in the league than him. For £2m (supposedly) - f*cking bargain!
Defoe - Success - Everyone wanted him back, I remember him being paraded at the Lane vs Burnley, amazing atmosphere. Defoe is a very good striker on his day and got some good goals.
Keane - Major flop. Should never have been brought back. Wasn't wanted back like Defoe was, still a legend though in my eyes, anyone that surpasses 100 goals deserves a legend title.
Kaboul - Major success.
Walker - Major success - may not have been a direct 'Arry signing but none the less, wouldn't be YPOTY if it weren't for 'Arry sticking by him.
Naughton - Failure. Though like Walker, not a direct 'Arry signing but unfortunately 'Arry couldn't work his wonders with him.
Pienaar - Major flop.
Saha - Freebie, scored a few, can't complain.
Nelsen - Freebie again. Been solid and got an important goal vs Bolton in the FA Cup, can't complain.
Sandro - Like Walker. A success, potential major success.
Chimbonda - Failure, though he was only brought back for back up purposes.
Cudicini - Always reliable when called upon. Success (ish)
Friedel - Success.
Gallas - Success.
Bassong - Successful first season, failure thereafter.
Parker - Major success.
Adebayor - Success/ major success.
Rafa - Like Walker, major success.

Overall can't complain with Redknapp's signings.
 
Spurs or Sex? said:
Good article Lenny <ok>

It's crazy how inflated the fees are when buying from another Prem club and then if they're English there's about another 25%+ on top!

In regards to the "Redknapp" signings that I've seen a few people think about, Rafa may not have been one Harry was chasing and that Levy techinically got hold of but Rafa wouldn't have been so successful if Harry hadn't have deployed him in the free role.

Redknapps signings (or Redknapp era) that I can think of:

Palacios - Success prior to tragic death of brother.
Crouch - Success - Got us CL football and kept us in it vs Young Boys (though did f*ck up vs Madrid)
Kranjcar - Success - Good player on his day, chipped in with some goals, not many better squad players in the league than him. For £2m (supposedly) - f*cking bargain!
Defoe - Success - Everyone wanted him back, I remember him being paraded at the Lane vs Burnley, amazing atmosphere. Defoe is a very good striker on his day and got some good goals.
Keane - Major flop. Should never have been brought back. Wasn't wanted back like Defoe was, still a legend though in my eyes, anyone that surpasses 100 goals deserves a legend title.
Kaboul - Major success.
Walker - Major success - may not have been a direct 'Arry signing but none the less, wouldn't be YPOTY if it weren't for 'Arry sticking by him.
Naughton - Failure. Though like Walker, not a direct 'Arry signing but unfortunately 'Arry couldn't work his wonders with him.
Pienaar - Major flop.
Saha - Freebie, scored a few, can't complain.
Nelsen - Freebie again. Been solid and got an important goal vs Bolton in the FA Cup, can't complain.
Sandro - Like Walker. A success, potential major success.
Chimbonda - Failure, though he was only brought back for back up purposes.
Cudicini - Always reliable when called upon. Success (ish)
Friedel - Success.
Gallas - Success.
Bassong - Successful first season, failure thereafter.
Parker - Major success.
Adebayor - Success/ major success.
Rafa - Like Walker, major success.

Overall can't complain with Redknapp's signings.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with all of that. But where's Khumalo in that list? You can't possibly forget about him, can you?

Bit worrying, in light of how absurdly expensive it is to buy from the EPL, that 15 out of the twenty you've listed above come from the EPL. Harry does love the "tried and tested" approach above the "£16m for Modric or £12m for Berbatov" type approach. Neither of those players were tried and tested in the EPL.

Still the list above is definitely without smatterings of Zokoras, Gilbertos, Rochas etc from overseas that were liberally dotted about (as well as the odd £15-17m on totally unnecessary players from the EPL) when Comolli was around.
 
I take issue with Defoe and Crouch being successes for Harry. Initially, perhaps, but how can you so easily forget the last half of the 2009/10 season and the whole of the 2010/11 season, when both players were utter pants? Defoe was probably the worst striker in the EPL, last season. This season, he has only been marginally better. Our strikers have been our major problem, the cracks in that particular veneer have been only thinly papered over with the (fortunate) acquisition of Adebayor.

Pienaar has only been a flop because Redknapp is tactically inept.

Naughton can hardly be deemed a failure, given his complete and utter lack of chances in the first XI. The most that any one can say about him is that the jury is out.
 
Hoddle Is A God said:
I take issue with Defoe and Crouch being successes for Harry. Initially, perhaps, but how can you so easily forget the last half of the 2009/10 season and the whole of the 2010/11 season, when both players were utter pants? Defoe was probably the worst striker in the EPL, last season. This season, he has only been marginally better. Our strikers have been our major problem, the cracks in that particular veneer have been only thinly papered over with the (fortunate) acquisition of Adebayor.

Pienaar has only been a flop because Redknapp is tactically inept.

Naughton can hardly be deemed a failure, given his complete and utter lack of chances in the first XI. The most that any one can say about him is that the jury is out.
Click to expand...

Well I put a "maaaybe" after Defoe's name in my original post because I am not a massive fan of his. But he did come at a time when he was exactly what we needed (and promptly got injured) and I still think that, as long as we see him only as an impact sub with an eye for goal, he has a part to play at a club looking to be CL regulars.

Crouch: Pretty decent price (£8m was it) for an England striker from the EPL. He did a decent enough job for us, I thought. OK - not CL material but was a very useful asset to the team as a whole. Totally understand other people disagreeing, though. But then when we signed Peter Crouch what did you expect? 20 goals a season and player of the year? He did a good enough job to help us get fourth and then qualify for the CL proper. That's not bad. For Peter Crouch.

Agree that calling Naughton a "failure" seems a bit harsh. Perhaps this will be proven wrong. Time's running out, though. Cos let's not forget that he wasn't cheap at £4m. Rose, in contrast was about £100k, wasn't he?
 
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