Two wingers and 'balance'

[humanbeingincroydon]

+1

I don't get these obsession with Modric and his lack of goals, as that isn't his role, players have different roles and when put together, these roles make a team (or not).

It said a lot about Chavlings last summer that they kept banging on about his lack of goals justifying their derisory offer for him. By that "logic" we should have been able to sign Cech for a six figure sum because in his time at Chelsea he's never scored and I doubt he's got many assists to his name.

 

[Spurlock]

very true......he is a key ball winner...helps defenders..gets the ball off them and sets off our attacking flow..that is his role.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

I won't mention Xavi and Chris Brunt, again.
Oh, bollocks...

 

[NSIS]

The same can be said for Huddlestone.

However, focusing entitrely on how their scoring is beloow standard is the sort of stat-happy nonsense that would make you believe that Chris Brunt is a more valuable player than Modric (or Xavi), or that a defensive midfielder isn't valuable to a team because they aren't a regular source of points in Fantasy Football.

I'm happy for Modric not to score if he's crucial to the build-up of every scoring move we make, why isn't everyone else?

I agree with you on that. It just made me wonder why that happens. I suppose some sports psychologist would tel us that it's all in his head. It can only be that he snatches at shooting opportunities, that makes him so frequently, wildly inaccurate with his shots on goal. It's not as if he doesn't get into goal scoring positions, he often does.

 

[Blue and White]

Modric would be fine if others chipped in with a few goals but when we play 2 DM alongside him we lack the goals which has been our downfall recently.
When we play 2 DM that means we have 7! defenders on the pitch-totally unneccesary IMO.
Against Chelsea Harry will revert to 433 but I ask of him to put in Niko instead of Sandro- he will give an added goal threat.

 

[Ghoddle10]

If Luka doesn't score, alongside the non-scoring Parker and Livermore/Sandro, then we have problems.

IF we drop Livermore/Sandro for Niko or Lennon, we have other problems.

We don't have the personnel to put out a balanced 'front 6', anyway Harry plays it, there are significant weaknesses.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

One thing that could be argued is that playing Walker instead of Corluka this season has affected the system somewhat.

Walker likes to take the ball forward down the right flank, whereas Corluka was more conservative going forward and it was his interplay (especially with Modric and/or Kranjcar) that saw the ball move forward but, crucially, he remained back in case of counter attacks. That meant we had an extra man back when we were on the offensive, which to a certain extent allowed the pairing of Modric and Huddlestone for a run of games.

 

[Ghoddle10]

Harry points out here that two wingers sticking out wide, far from giving balance significantly weakens the team

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-n...urs-can-win-fa-cup-and-finish-top-four-169683

He wants Lennon to learn how to drift inside effectively, otherwise he will spend large parts of the game as an uninvolved spectator.

He points out that Young and Nani drift inside.

So once again to reiterate 'Gareth Bale he DOESN'T play on the left (exclusively)' - Not so snappy but a whole lot more accurate than the original chant

 

[SpursDisciple]

Harry points out here that two wingers sticking out wide, far from giving balance significantly weakens the team

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-n...urs-can-win-fa-cup-and-finish-top-four-169683

He wants Lennon to learn how to drift inside effectively, otherwise he will spend large parts of the game as an uninvolved spectator.

He points out that Young and Nani drift inside.

So once again to reiterate 'Gareth Bale he DOESN'T play on the left (exclusively)' - Not so snappy but a whole lot more accurate than the original chant

To be fair, all wingers should move centrally when the play is down the other side. Lennon has come inside very often, and scored a good number of goals, so not sure about your point. A winger out wide may not get the ball all the time, but spreads the defence and so staying wide creates space for other players.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Harry points out here that two wingers sticking out wide, far from giving balance significantly weakens the team

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-n...urs-can-win-fa-cup-and-finish-top-four-169683

He wants Lennon to learn how to drift inside effectively, otherwise he will spend large parts of the game as an uninvolved spectator.

He points out that Young and Nani drift inside.

So once again to reiterate 'Gareth Bale he DOESN'T play on the left (exclusively)' - Not so snappy but a whole lot more accurate than the original chant

Lennon coming inside allows Walker to get forward - on the flip side, as Benny doesn't get forward as much as Walker, that's a reason for Bale to hug the touchline until he's in the final third, rather than pop up all over the midfield throughout the game.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Lennon spending time as a spectator's a good thing.
He hugs the touchline and totally distorts the opposition's whole system, pulling their right-back well out of touch with their centre-backs and often their left-winger, too.
If he's left alone, then he'll simply murder the player who he's up against when he does get the ball.
Teams can't allow for that possibility when we've got a number of players that can pick someone out from miles away.

That Redknapp appears to be ignorant of this is very worrying, in my opinion.

 

[Ghoddle10]

Hi PNP, but surely most top managers agree with Harry that having players as specatators isn't a good thing, in the case of wingers anyway.

The top club side in the world doesn't play two wingers, nor do the current world and European Champions. Nor do the current top two in the Prem, for as Harry says players like Nani and Young come inside to get involved, and City like Barca and Spain don't really play conventional wingers at all. Ditto Chelsea and Arsenal.


I think it's reassuring that Harry is aware of why wingers are out of favour, and back that policy 100%.

 

[notsosmartspur]

+1

I don't get these obsession with Modric and his lack of goals, as that isn't his role, players have different roles and when put together, these roles make a team (or not).

Its not an obsession, to explain this properly forget the back4, lets talk front 6. If there's 2 DM's, then 4 attack players should all be capable of goals, variety keeps defences guessing, if the same MFer is constantly looking for the same forward, how easy is that to stop. To ask the same 3 players to provide the bulk of a seasons goals is just plain ridiculous....no?

If however we do not use 2 DM's then Mod chipping in with goals is not so important.

 

[Spur of the Moment]

I am a big fan of Modders, but 14 goals in 4 seasons is surely not acceptable for an offensive MF?
We can discuss all the other qualities that he has, but that total just isn't good enough.

But if he only gets 1 more goal this season and it is the winner against the Chavs then I would probably overlook the above......

 

[Spur of the Moment]

Semantics Luke - he still doesn't get enough goals!!!

 

[Boss]

Semantics Luke - he still doesn't get enough goals!!!

But he dictates plays and helps start moves which lead to goals so that should be good enough - if he done this and scored 7-10 goals a season then he wouldn't be with us.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

It's not semantics Relayer, it's a different role and a deeper position. I agree with Lidls about this.

Playing the 4-2-3-1 results in several players being moved into positions that they're not that comfortable in and we don't get the best out of them.
Modric ends up too far up the pitch and gets stifled out of the game.
Van der Vaart either becomes anonymous or he reverts to playing in the middle anyway, which further congests the centre of the park and makes Modric even less effective.
With Bale now cutting in and wandering around all the time, we allow our opponents to get every one of their players exactly where they want them, with minimal distances between them.
Sandro has no idea what he's supposed to be doing and when, which is well illustrated by Redknapp's constant rants at him when we use this system.

Nobody's stretching the play. Nobody's forcing the opposition to think or move into parts of the pitch that they don't want to go.
Everyone's trying to play in the same part of the pitch. Everyone's funneling the ball straight down the middle to the massed hordes of defenders, who are very happy to see them coming.
What's the worst that can happen? They have to give a foul away or put the ball out and we'll waste the set piece.

 

[Spurlock]

call me old fashioned but i think a midfielder should be able to score goals unless he is a defensive midfielder..in which case he should be able to defend..i think football can be easy.

[video=youtube;cTguTnoE680]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTguTnoE680[/video]

 

[NSIS]

Defenders are always wary of what they fear the most. In the majority of cases, that's pace. Lennon's very presence, and their awareness of the damage he can do, if not watched, ensures that any defence has to legislate for him.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Spot on, NSIS.
Having Bale and Lennon on the wings means that we've two less oppositions players to worry about, as their full-backs won't want to cross the halfway line.