Grant Holt for England?

[Dangerous Marsupial]

did you go to the game?

if you did, you'd have witnessed a top defender being torn to shreds time and time again. king looked like he'd been hit by a train...

Agreed. Holt was unplayable and so too was Wilbraham. Saha/Defoe/Abedayor couldn't match the threat they posed that's for sure. If we had been given the two maybe three penalties we deserved, Holt's name would be on the scoresheet and longsight would no doubt be raving about him!

But onto the OP. Is Grant Holt better than some England players now? Yes. Andy Carroll, Jay Bothroyd and Bobby Zamora (Bobby Zamora for funk's sake!) have all had England call-ups in the past! Could he do a good enough job for England? Yes. If Scott Parker can break into the team at his age, why not Holt?

But really, forget Holt for a second, because John Ruddy should indisputably be England's second choice 'keeper.

 

[Home on the range canary]

So what????? You sound like that's never happened before. The defence was left to mop up time and time again , without much support from the midfield. Yes Holt battled and put him throught the ringer, yes he should have had a penaly, yes a great deft touch to put Johnson it, lots of running, pulling the defence in different directions, making space etc etc fecking etc

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

DM, i think longsight just wants an argument but if he genuinely watched that match, there is only one word that could describe holt yesterday - monumental. when i state its the best centre forward performance i've seen i really mean it. sure i've seen better players than holt do unbelievable things in games but i've not seen a defender as good as king made to look as bad as that before - that was down to holt

 

[Home on the range canary]

Agreed. Holt was unplayable and so too was Wilbraham. Saha/Defoe/Abedayor couldn't match the threat they posed that's for sure. If we had been given the two maybe three penalties we deserved, Holt's name would be on the scoresheet and longsight would no doubt be raving about him!

Jesus wept, it must be the hangover of the weekend, and back to work and my pendantry kicking back it.
I was surprised to read that it was the best performance of a centre forward they'd seen. I'm not being critical of Holt, where the **** was I critical of the player.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Jesus wept, it must be the hangover of the weekend, and back to work and my pendantry kicking back it.
I was surprised to read that it was the best performance of a centre forward they'd seen. I'm not being critical of Holt, where the **** was I critical of the player.

i think you'll be in a minority if you think he was anything other than exceptional yesterday

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

Jesus wept, it must be the hangover of the weekend, and back to work and my pendantry kicking back it.
I was surprised to read that it was the best performance of a centre forward they'd seen. I'm not being critical of Holt, where the **** was I critical of the player.

It might sound like a rash statement at first, but to be honest I can't think of many strikers having a better game than that all season. Supers says Holt was exceptional yesterday - I'm inclined to say all 11 players we had on the pitch were. Holt controlled and won so many of our long balls out of defence and relentlessly harassed Tottenham's back 4 (As did AW) forcing them into mistakes and making it difficult for them to attack us. Without this Spurs would of kept coming and coming at us, and we'd probably have lost.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

just to add to that, i watched the game yesterday from the home end. because i wasn't going mental like those in the amazing away support i watched the game from a slightly different viewpoint. if it wasn't the best centre forward display i've ever seen, i sure as hell can't think of a better one!

 

[Guru of Ipswich]

I'm just going to stick in my oar in with (hopefully) a unbiased opinion, but this is an honest opinion.

If we are talking about the game 15 to 20 years ago, when in international football a centre forward was allowed to bully defenders then yes i would say he was worth a go. but in the present climate, his style of play just doesn't suit international football, he would commit to many free-kicks (i believe he has committed the most in the premiership this year) thus we give the ball away and he could get himself sent-off.

If any Norwich player deserves a call up its Ruddy everytime for me, he has been your stand out player and the lack of english top flight keepers its a crime that he doesn't get it.

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

I'm just going to stick in my oar in with (hopefully) a unbiased opinion, but this is an honest opinion.

If we are talking about the game 15 to 20 years ago, when in international football a centre forward was allowed to bully defenders then yes i would say he was worth a go. but in the present climate, his style of play just doesn't suit international football, he would commit to many free-kicks (i believe he has committed the most in the premiership this year) thus we give the ball away and he could get himself sent-off.

If any Norwich player deserves a call up its Ruddy everytime for me, he has been your stand out player and the lack of english top flight keepers its a crime that he doesn't get it.

I don't recall him giving away a single foul against Tottenham all game. That might sound hard to believe, and I probably am wrong, but I don't remember one. And for every foul he concedes he wins one in a more dangerous position!

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

I'm just going to stick in my oar in with (hopefully) a unbiased opinion, but this is an honest opinion.

If we are talking about the game 15 to 20 years ago, when in international football a centre forward was allowed to bully defenders then yes i would say he was worth a go. but in the present climate, his style of play just doesn't suit international football, he would commit to many free-kicks (i believe he has committed the most in the premiership this year) thus we give the ball away and he could get himself sent-off.

If any Norwich player deserves a call up its Ruddy everytime for me, he has been your stand out player and the lack of english top flight keepers its a crime that he doesn't get it.

totally understand your point guru and i agree his game might fall foul of the continental officials. however, heskey used to get away with a similar style of play and lets face it, crouch is not the same kind of player but because of his height gets pulled up - didn't stop him scoring 20+ goals for england!

holt has given away the most fouls but he's also won the most fouls - he's a nightmare for defenders to deal with, even when not playing well. who else have england got who you can say that about? if he doesn't get at least a call up to a friendly, just to see if he can cope with it, then its a ridiculous decision - even if he is then judged from one friendly not to be good enough. there is no way anyone can say he isn't good enough to get a call up - he has done everything and more to warrant inclusion ahead of the likes of campbell and even welbeck. with regards, ruddy, if he doesn't get in the squad then you seriously have to question whether there is some kind of conspiracy because he is BY MILES the 2nd best english keeper.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

Hang on a sec, I think I can see where Longsight is coming from here. He's never said Holt wasn't exceptional, amazing, incredible, phenomenal, colossal etc etc etc yesterday, and I don't think you'd find anyone of sane mind denying that he did indeed have an absolute belter yesterday because he was absolutely brilliant.

I just think the bit Lonsight is having trouble with is the "best performance from a centre-forward ever" line, which I personally think it fair enough as that is one hell of a boast to be honest. Taking absolutely nothing away from Holty, King is no where near the player he was, and Ryan Nelson hardly covered himself in glory so it's surely over the top to say it's the best display you have "ever seen".

Now if you were talking about Darren Beckford's hat-trick against Everton in 1992 then I might be inclined to agree with you...

 

[Home on the range canary]

Fair enough, I'll stop being a pedant or try to stop a least.

 

[Home on the range canary]

Hang on a sec, I think I can see where Longsight is coming from here. He's never said Holt wasn't exceptional, amazing, incredible, phenomenal, colossal etc etc etc yesterday, and I don't think you'd find anyone of sane mind denying that he did indeed have an absolute belter yesterday because he was absolutely brilliant.

I just think the bit Lonsight is having trouble with is the "best performance from a centre-forward ever" line, which I personally think it fair enough as that is one hell of a boast to be honest. Taking absolutely nothing away from Holty, King is no where near the player he was, and Ryan Nelson hardly covered himself in glory so it's surely over the top to say it's the best display you have "ever seen".

Now if you were talking about Darren Beckford's hat-trick against Everton in 1992 then I might be inclined to agree with you...

Correct.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Hang on a sec, I think I can see where Longsight is coming from here. He's never said Holt wasn't exceptional, amazing, incredible, phenomenal, colossal etc etc etc yesterday, and I don't think you'd find anyone of sane mind denying that he did indeed have an absolute belter yesterday because he was absolutely brilliant.

I just think the bit Lonsight is having trouble with is the "best performance from a centre-forward ever" line, which I personally think it fair enough as that is one hell of a boast to be honest. Taking absolutely nothing away from Holty, King is no where near the player he was, and Ryan Nelson hardly covered himself in glory so it's surely over the top to say it's the best display you have "ever seen".

Now if you were talking about Darren Beckford's hat-trick against Everton in 1992 then I might be inclined to agree with you...

munky, thats a fair point but i stand by what i said - i've never seen a centre half take a battering like that before. king might be slightly past his best but he looked a broken man after the game - he still has that aura of a quality centre half surrounding him and he simply couldn't cope. i've not seen a top defender smashed like that before.

ps. beckford's hattrick was amazing
i thought he was going to do that every week!!

 

[oldcanariesfan]

I think that's exactly the point - the fact that Holty would harrass, worry and "bully" International defenders has to be seen as a strength not a weakness. His ability to pull defenders away to create chances elsewhere has to be seen as a benefit - it's not just his "battering ram" (M.Lawrenson, BBC TV 2011 and 2012) approach or his ability to outmuscle defenders that makes him so effective, he can also be a provider as well (his crosses for Morro's goal against WBA away and Bradders "hoof" yesterday are two examples).

For an all-round centre forward who scores goals, makes goals, creates spaces and chances there's no-one better in England right-now and I am sure that Rooney (when he is available) would feast on the space and opportunities that Grant would create for him.

Both Holt and Ruddy should be on the plane - nuff said.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

this assumption of pundits and some fans that holt is merely a battering ram is daft - he is one of the cleverest footballers out there. he's got a great footballing brain, like a sheringham, and he's quicker than they suggest too. how often do you see him use his strength to brush a player off and then run through to finish. how often does he get caught and tackled fairly? his crossing is outstanding, makes great runs, works the channels, he works hard, he can pass as well as anyone - some of his cross field passing is excellent - he tackles (not always well admittedly), he wins headers, he can defend corners... honestly, he is such a useful player it amazes me there is any debate really!!

 

[Fatter than Fleck]

Sadly work meant I only saw the MOTD highlights yesterday but if Holty's performance against King was better than his performance at Chelski and Anfield it must have been awesome. A quick review of the goals he has scored this season would show he is the complete package. As a youngster I never understood the lack of international recognition that Keelan and Phil Boyer received. Lambert's sarcastic little old Norwich comment sums up the England mindset.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

The thing that really baffles me is how on earth has nobody been able to get all this out of him before? You don't just become a superb, all-round player who can cut it at the very top overnight so I simply can't understand how he was allowed to drift around in the lower leagues for so long without anyone turning him into the beast that we know and love today.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

The thing that really baffles me is how on earth has nobody been able to get all this out of him before? You don't just become a superb, all-round player who can cut it at the very top overnight so I simply can't understand how he was allowed to drift around in the lower leagues for so long without anyone turning him into the beast that we know and love today.

managers have got it out of him, its just nobody in the higher leagues were willing to give him the chance! the only club who did, forest, then played him on the wing

check out his goals for rochdale - he literally scores every kind of goal imaginable and he continues to do exactly that in the top flight. why not international level which in my opinion, is not as high as it used to be? check out how many players play for their country but not their club. i've also put up the video of his city goals from his first two seasons with us...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DGWwc5mluU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI5o2snTH9Y

 

[ncfcwonky]

What irritates me is people saying that he won't be able to cope against world class players.

He's been doing this all season, scoring goals against Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea. Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Zamora, Crouch and Campbell have played against the same defences, so it is a pointless argument.